Originally posted by KyoZero

Originally posted by Pjotr
When you hit a kid you will teach it to hit people.

When you talk to a kid and be stearn with what you are saying you will teach it to talk to people and stand by its words.

my 2 cents

pssst...your logic is already broken

I was hit...have yet to hit anyone else

You cannot claim that as an ultimate truth

-Kyo

You are right: I off course meant something like as what you teach is what you get. Statistics show that you are more likely to use violence when it was used on you when you are a kid. The same goes for sexual abuse. And kids who are shown respect and and learn to think and talk, are liable to grow up as more intelligent human beings. You of course are one of the lucky and intelligent other group of people. Good for you.

Originally posted by Armour For Victor

To break it down to anyone, there really isnt a right or correct way of raising a child.

That may be so, but there are certainly wrong ways to bring a child up.
Sorry to regurgitate, but I consider violent actions (no matter how one dresses them e.g. 'pat' instead of 'smack') to be in the 'wrong' category.
This is my opinion.

Originally posted by TheAmused

Show me a child that's grown up that has never been whooped i will show you a time bomb waiting to go off.
They will be
A smartypants.
Rude in general.
and disrespectful to there parent's and or elder's...aunt's uncle's. ect..

If have called a lot but never a time bomb. I have never been spanked. My parents gave me space and oppertunity to do what I thought was best and I was smart enough to use it, without being a smartypants. I am doing fine, thank you, showing respect to whoever deserves it and living a great live in a spoiled rotten world.

If I had ever seen "time-out" work with any of the parents I'm friends with, I might give it a try. However, all the "time-out" parents have brats for children - so, I'll never try the time-out method.

And yes, several of us "punishment" parents do sit around and talk about what brats the time-out parents are raising. The conversation usually drifts to things we did as children to get in trouble. And we sit around and laugh about it. There hasn't been a single instance where one of us stopped and said, "Boy, I really got beat that time. It traumatized me."

And someone mentioned that it was a shrinking population of parents that spank their children. Probably so, but of the friends I have that are parents, I'd say it's split about 50-50.

Originally posted by TheAmused
My next door neighbor has a little boy 8 year's old.
Well i hear my dog in the back yard yelp sometime's i look out side there is this little boy at my fence.
So i watched and waited one day.
Well he was chucking rocks at my dog.
For what reason i got no idea.

I told his mom she was a single parent.
She said i will correct him he won't do it again.
Next day..YELP!!!!!!
little sucker was chucking rock's again.
I said hey little dude"Did you get in trouble for being mean to dumb animal yesterday"?
He said "Yeah and snickered"
"She gave me a Popsicle and i got grounded so i played 360 all day"
So i told his mom "Mam he was hitting my dog with rock's again"

She told me Don't tell me how to correct my kid's"
i said lady I am just telling you to make him stop before he hurt's my dog.
SHe slamed the door.

She has no idea how to control the boy.
If i could legally throw a rock at him i would for meanness

I hate to call the law ect.. it's a dog vs a mean spoiled never whooped boy.
i call it get's child welfare on her...and i don't wish that on anyone.

But there is my point..Time out go play ya xbox all day ....
Yeah it work's in what world?

isn't that the truth.

i used to work for a pediatric office while back, and at least one out of 7 kids or so have incompetent parents who themselves were never disciplined and never disciplines their kids. most of the time, many of these parents have no jobs, or bad jobs. barely finished high school and some not even with a GED. but none the less, these are the same parents who ends up having 3-5 kids miminum because they also do not believe in abortion, or simply the kids are a way for them to stay home while collecting welfare checks. most professionals i know personally do spank their kids, even internal medicine doc to a nurse's assistant. of course there is a difference between abuse and spanking, and at least from the people and their kids i meet, those that are spanked do better in just about all aspects of school.

I just have never seen a child without discipline do any good in school.

Originally posted by TheAmused

Originally posted by unityemissions
If I so choose to have kids one day, I will respect them. In doing so, they will hopefully respect me. I remember being a kid and getting whipped with the belt. It just encouraged me to not only continue, but to increase my mishaps.

Physical abuse, emotional abuse...it's still abuse. Treat you kid as an equal, and they will love you and respect you dearly. At least, this is my thought. I remember seeing my friends whose parents allowed them to make mistakes, but gently guided them when there voice was wanted. These were the most successful, and happy friends I had.

I appreciate your view, but think it's a bit flawed and out-dated. I think "punks" are more a result of collective pressures. It's a societal problem, not a familial one. Feed their mind with what interests them, and they will grow wise and successful.

To love is to accept entirely, both the correct and incorrect choices. I choose to love.

New age, ya think? Whatever. The labels are meaningless, IMHO.

A whooping is not abuse you are spreading lie's.

There is NOW LAW saying using a belt on ya kid's butt for what ever reason you deem fit as a parent is abuse.

Yes show ya kid respect...But if there is no respect in return..You got a problem..no time out or grounding gonna help ya.

But saying it's abuse Is a Lie Period!
That is the new age thinking i am talking about.

Not singling your out or anything ..don't get mad.
But you got a butt whooping when you was growing up..it hurt and you learn..If it took a few time's you remember EXACTLY why you got whooped.

But now you are like i got whooped i will never whoop my kid.
It was abuse when i got whooped.
No it was not abuse.
If ya got beat..Ya that's abuse.

I thank my dad every day for whooping my butt.
I am sure he would have been able to sit me down go don't do drug's boy Drug's are bad MMMKAY...
i would have had a divine thought..I bet he is right..i see the error of my teenage way's now..thanks for talking me off my drug habit.


No he put me in my room at age 17 dared me to come out..
I sneaked out the window once..
Before my feet hit the ground i was getting that belt to my butt.
If i tried to fight him back he got me harder...

Worked like a charm..i saw the error of my way's.


If you hit your spouse on the face or "whoop" em with a belt, that is assault. What is the difference? Age? Bodies are bodies, and minds are minds. They get hurt when struck, sometimes seriously.

Interesting thread...I absolutely believe that sometimes the "threat of" or a solid crack on the butt is in order.
You're dealing with kids not adults and sometimes you have to use methods less rational,period.Anyoe who "discusses" anything with a young child is not aware that they stop listening at the first "no" and simply won't respond.
You're doing them a diservice when you declare it's a "democracy" to a kid who hasn't the verbal or mental skills or enough life-experience to begin to relate to your "in depth discussion..."Please.

HOWEVER,the biggest issue I see is the lack of parenting,not the fact that kids are little asshats anymore.I'm not talking tyrant here,I mean simply that it's a "dictatorship" of sorts in that the PARENT has the final say so and should know what it takes to achieve!

They have these kids 1/2 the time because their "peers" are doing so (I see it all the time) and then park them in nasty daycares or at babysitters while they continue to work or play,I have seen both instances.
The kids are fed CHIT for the most part,fast-food and frozen stuff because they have SUCH scheduled lil' lives mostly again,because the "parents" want/need to be accepted by their peers...
Not all of them ,I'm willing to guess a few people genuinely invest time and effort in their kids but most leave it to the schools (a bad joke) or the daycare or someone else to "raise" them because they do not want the task or responsibility of having to discipline or correct the lil darlin's...they let the Nintendo or Wii do the babysitting in the evening.
If all else fails,declare they are ADHD or tag them with something else that is "current and acceptable" and get them on meds...that'll do the trick! NOT!!! Stop medicating the kids and start doing your JOB ie,raising them ot be productive members of society with a few common sense smarts,morals,an understanding of right and wrong,and a sense of humor!
I hear "but it's CHANGED..." I say BS...kids are still kids.

If you attempt to keep a kid busy with interesting and creative stimulation,it's amazing how their "attitude" changes!
It's the parenting-skills that are lacking in my opinion and not that kids have "changed" so much... and you give me one that doesn't love to fly a kite or make houses with blocks or dig in the dirt.I have lots of experience with kids and it's not that tough...the parents MAKE it hard!!!

I'd smack the parents one first!

[edit on 27-7-2009 by irishchic]

Originally posted by TheAmused
I am talking about spanking's.
Growing up it was part of life...No big deal i did something bad ..yelled at my mother or father.
I got a butt whopping from a man i thought was gonna kill me..But i knew he wasn't but still it taught me valuable lesson's.

I am not saying whoop ya kid's but for spilling a cup of pop.
But whoop it's butt if it throw's it across the room at you while telling you to shut up or mad at you!!

your vile ways are gonna go the way of the dinosaur, dear sir.

the rule of reason is going to overtake the brutal rule of the jungle that your instinctual animal self irrationally obeys.

a world of non-violence is only going to manifest when all violence is eliminated.. including using violence to attempt to correct the behavior of children.

it's the lack of patience, lack of compassion and lack of selflessness that gives you the chemical rush you instinctual autonomically react to that causes you to act like a dog, like an ape.. ... to strike out of violence.

the psychology of every individual in this world is molded by the people around you as you grow up as a child, and every conditioned response is BURNED into your wiring in that vulnerable stage of life.

If you repeatedly reinforce these violent actions by you, the parents..
the child leanrs that this is an acceptable solution to correcting behavior in others.. an acceptable solution to correcting situations where the individual feels emotionally exacerbated in..
an acceptable solution.. that compounds upon itself and eventually become the ONLY solution available, to dealing with any situation that demands a solution.. and without the constant threat of repremandation from authorities...equals to eventual no-holds-barred barbarism.

if you place individuals with violent upbringing in a lawless scenario.. you'll get absolute barbarism.

if you place individuals with NO KNOWLEDGE and NO EXPERIENCE of violence in a lawless scenario... peace ensues..

in our future ... there WILL BE unavoidable periods of time where situations with complete lawlessness arise...
you want to feel personally responsible for causing the minor spurs of violence that extrapolate into a domino-effect of mass violence because that's what is TAUGHT as ACCEPTABLE?
or do you want to feel personally responsible for causing the planting of seeds that show more toward using REASON as opposed to ANIMAL VIOLENCE?

like i said.. your old and vile ways will go the way of the dinosaur once everyone who is violence-prone.. kills each other off... and the ones who do NOT accept violence as a REASONABLE RESPONSE.. COOPERATE with one another and SURVIVE.

see you in the history books, caveman...
ah.. extinction of an obsolete species: teh ultimate, the absolute.. in epic lulz.

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