You have every right in the world to whoop ya kid's..PLZ start I am sick of all the punk's

I got the odd whooping from dad when I was a kid. It wasn't abuse... I'm actually thankful for it in retrospect. It taught me that to every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. It taught me limits, respect... and yes... it made me a better person.

I can't say the same for Gen Y.


IRM

People really need to understand the difference between spanking and abusing.

Hitting a child on the butt or the back of the upper thigh where there will be no permanent injury (and by no permanent injury, I mean the pain will be gone in like 10 minutes) is perfectly acceptable.

Picking your kid up by his hair or using any kind of 'weapon' (belt, wrench, fry pan etc...) is beating and is abuse.

My parents spanked me when I was young, but they never BEAT me or ABUSED me and they reserved the spanking only for when I was really bad. Not when I accidentally dropped a plate in the kitchen.

I see a lot of people that say they will never hit their child because they think its abuse. I can guarantee that these people hear the phrase 'Hit you child' and it immediately brings up memories of their parents who WHERE abusive and they say "I could never do that to my kids!" . Just because your parents didn't know the difference between spanking and beating doesn't mean you don't. You just have to know where to draw the line.

I once told my mother to F off when I was very young. My dad spanked me and told me to apologize. I flat out refused (I can be very stubborn when I want to be). So he hit me again and said apologize. I again refused. Eventually my Dad had to stop. I was too young to remember, but he told me he had to stop because if he hit me any harder then he would have started to cause real damage.

He knew where he had to draw the line. Unfortunately a lot of parents don't know where to draw the line.

Does this also mean that one day when a kid all grown up takes care of his elderly parent he can whoop the parent's bottom? Or is this all about the hierarchy of "since I was here first you do what I say"?

Sure kids can make you go crazy, like anybody else. Maybe my boss will one day feel the need to exort force on my behind

The thing is that a tiny bit of physical force showing the parent is for real can sometimes easily become a real nice beating. I mean how easy is it not to get rid off all that bottled up anger on somebody who is not strong enough to kick the crap out of you?

And once the parent feels that rush of rage he/she is going to stick with it unless there is actually an ounce of inner reflection.

Originally posted by kiwitina948
reply to post by TheAmused

 

In New Zealand here, its currently illegal for parents to hit their kids. The government is puting out a referendum to ask people's opinions on whether it should still be illegal or should the law here be changed. They had major difficulties in just getting the wording of the proposed referendum correct.

It reads like a backwards question “Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand?”

"If its wrong to hit an adult, how can it be right to hit a child?"

yesvote.org.nz...

Well of course it not all right to hit a adult...
If the people involved in the fight was taught respect they wouldn't be fighting to start with .

If your kid get's mad and decides to let say hit your neighbor's car with a rock.
Because he was mad about what ..
You the Parent are liable!!
Same thing let your kid bully another kid and beat him up...
In a court of law you the PARENT are liable for the damage's /pain and suffering ect...
Not the kid..YOU the PARENT.

So yes you brought your kid in this world ...
You have every right to raise it how you see fit.
If you want to whoop ya kid as discipline ..That is your Unquestionable right!!

Ask yourself this.
Amish Live by the old school thinking also Respect your elder's no cussing/stealing/backtalk ect.

Have you ever saw a Amish doing Crack?
Or having drive by shooting's with the mininite's?
Or calling women any thing other than a woman?
Or Pack's of Amish Rioting?
They have Respect for us English..As i do them.

Do you think child welfare service's should be called to every Amish house in America?
Please there need to be no law saying you can't whoop your kid.
IT'S YOUR KID!!!
dang sheeple is what everyone is now aday's it make's me sick.


I know your in a different country and some law's are messed up compared to our here in the state's.
But it shouldn't matter where you live in this planet.
Raise your kid How YOU see fit.
Whoop them or not whoop them.

But to call a whooping abuse is arrogant and ignorant at same time.

P.S if they try to pass a law in America saying parent's CAN'T whoop there kid's in America..
I will be the first to fire that first shoot to start the revolution..cause America has gone mad.
Just saying.

I have never been spanked but all my dad ever had to do was threaten and then i would straighten up. When will they figure out that a spanking is real discipline? When just about 3/4 of the kids in schools are suspended for acting out? I wish that parents could actually punish 1950's style...same way with principles. When kids get in trouble at school they do it to get out of school? common sense? It's one thing to punish, unless it gets bloody then it's only punishment.

Originally posted by QueenofWeird
Does this also mean that one day when a kid all grown up takes care of his elderly parent he can whoop the parent's bottom? Or is this all about the hierarchy of "since I was here first you do what I say"?

Sure kids can make you go crazy, like anybody else. Maybe my boss will one day feel the need to exort force on my behind

The thing is that a tiny bit of physical force showing the parent is for real can sometimes easily become a real nice beating. I mean how easy is it not to get rid off all that bottled up anger on somebody who is not strong enough to kick the crap out of you?

And once the parent feels that rush of rage he/she is going to stick with it unless there is actually an ounce of inner reflection.

You respect your parent's 2nd only to GOD.
I don't care if there wrong they are right.
They brought you in this world...Raised and Tried to teach you manner's and respect..and feed and clothed you and keep a roof over your head.

You respect then and defend your parent till the end.


As for your boss.
He does what is called mental abuse to you.
He does not have to whoop ya
Don't do as he say's your fired...and then if you can't find another job in time...you loose ya house and food..now what are your kid's left with?

a father than couldn't respect authority and now they live in a cardboard box.

There is allway's consequence's to our action.
I don't care if that kid is 6 or 60.
If i was age 60 in a nursing home and try to hit the nurse as all old people do.
I will sign a paper telling them to whoop my butt.

Originally posted by YourForever
Ok, on one caveat. Only if the police are allowed to beat adults with discretionary judgement.

Lmfao have you never in your life tried to fight a cop?

Next time take a swing at one of them tell them your not my boss.

They will beat your with Nightsticks and taser you.

Because even as adult your suppose to RESPECT YOUR AUTHORITY'S .

But i can tell you apparently was not taught this.
Or you wouldn't be asking the question.

Same thing if my teenager try's to buck up on me or my wife..Disrespecting me...or her..and fist's drawn and hit's one of us.
He is gonna get taught A.S.A.P. what a Hella Whoopin feels like.
Better he get's that whooping from his parent's and learns his place in society.
Better Than me putting the burden on cop's and society later on ..Don't you think?
It was my kid and if he is a Adult disrespecting cop's..It show's i never taught the boy to start with.

Time out the cop's yell....Stand beside that light pole!!!
Cop yells Don't resit arrest...Ltn...Get your feather out...He is a hard case!!
Cop Yells That it we are taking your Toy's away you been a bad boy...

Yep you guessed it ya get beat..not whooped BEAT!!



[edit on 28-7-2009 by TheAmused]

I dont have kids personally but i know when i was a child i got spanked and belted thank god it happened because it set me straight to act right and not straight to the pen beating you child is wrong punching kicking ect ect. WRONG! spanking slapping ect isn't.
There are consequences it your actions some good some bad you do good they're good do bad you get the point. If someones kid told me to F-off er anything like that id go to the parents and tell them and see what they did i know if someone told me my kid said that ohhhhhh boy wouldnt i ever give them hell about it i could do more mentally to a child then i could ever do physically.

Horribly written.
Second line.

Originally posted by TheAmused
Have you ever saw a Amish doing Crack?

This is actually a big problem in the U.S. with Amish youth and METH.

Didn't mean to completely undermine your point but...yah....

Originally posted by TheAmused
Lmfao have you never in your life tried to fight a cop?

Where did fighting come into it? You are deliberately dodging the point, which is hardly suprising. There is no fighting. I said the cop should beat you regardless, whenever he feels like it. I think then we will be more on par with what you advocate doing to mere children.

Enough said.

It all stems from not understanding (and having no patience to understand) in a child's mind why they do what they do. The simple one size fits all solution that covers every problem in the world is force, applied by violence and fear. So that is what you turn to, every time. You then see society's ills and blame it all on a lack of authority, which you associate with lack of force.

It is an abuse of power to be violent towards children, there is no line or half-way, it comes from a lack of intelligence and effort to be a good parent. The best children come from loving homes where they were taught mutual respect, not violence. The ills in society are products of way more complex issues than lack of authority and force.

The bottom line is if violence works for you, you'll never see a reason why it is wrong, unless you must live under threat of it yourself.

As the father of 2 grown children who have given my wife and me 6 great grandkids, I have given much thought to this subject and have had experience in physical attitude correction.

As a child, my father would be very prone to beating me. Not spanking, beating...with a belt, his fists, his open hand, a shove, a nasty comment, and pure intimidation. Did I deserve it? No, not usually. It only stopped when I fought back at age 15 and hurt him. He never tried it again. I learned...fight a bully, they will back down. But all his physical attacks did were hurt me. I was never in trouble, not a problem child but, like so many, was mouthy at times. Calm discussion would have helped more than any beating.

With my own children, I found that if I lashed out physically, it was from anger, not for teaching purposes. I never hurt them but to this day, in my older age, I could have handled it better. There was no cause that warranted whipping them and all it would have done is make them hate me as I still hate my own father for his actions.

Finally, as the OP noted, you will (may) be found innocent for whatever corporeal punishment you mete out to your child. What is not noted is putting yourself into "the system". My wife and daughter got into a physical shoving match when my daughter was a teen (they grabbed each others hair). My daughter called 911 and the police responded. After making my wife walk out of the house with her hands on her head (I was at work at the time), they came in, filled out their report, inspected my daughter (there was no abuse), and even counseled both to find another solution that did not involve violence. Unfortunately, by law, the police had to turn over their report to Child Protective Services. That involved multiple visits by their Case Workers, numerous reports, inspections, counseling, and eventually a few months later we were free from "the State". And the records were filed for any future incidents.

The bottom line is that violence begats violence. All pain does is teaches pain, how to give it and maybe even how to endure it. But ultimately it does us all a disservice because it continues a cycle of violence passed down from one generation to the next. What we need to do more of is spend time instructing and guiding our children so that we do not reach the point where violence becomes an option.

When I was young, our greatest influences were our parents, teachers and peers, in that order. Today, that has been reversed. We can speak of the need of 2 wage earners due to our economy or material desires, the lack of parents being involved, the pressures of games/TV shows/movies that too graphically display the dark underside of mankind (and in many ways glorifies it) but if the parent realizes that kids are not a part time job but a full time, difficult, and ever-changing responsibility (to them, ourselves and society as a whole) the problems that people like the OP view as "fixable" through "whooping" (it is whupping, by the way) will continue to be perpetuated.

reply to post by prevenge


You can't be serious, can you? Children who have never been hit in their lives still have the capacity to hit others - and are often the first to do so, as they have yet to learn that how much hitting hurts, and have an overall lack of empathy about it, until the day someone DOES hit them back. You want a society of little sociopaths lacking empathy for the pain of others - go for it and have fun in your little dream world.

I'd like to see you reason with a toddler who has been about to do something that will hurt him or her far more than the prospective spanking, like trying to play with electrical outlets, drink bleach or a score of other things. Kids who learn that there are no REAL consequences for their actions end up being hurt far worse in the future, as the world will not coddle them the way mom and dad must have.... or ignore them the way mom and dad must have.

Punishment is not abuse - spanking is a punishment. Beating is abuse. You do not spank a child out of anger - the swatting of the buttocks is to get their attention, and the shock of being swatted is more to them than any actual pain from the hand on them. Do not use a switch, a belt or a paddle, as the lack of pain in your own hand CAN allow an adult to go too far, even if they aren't meaning to. Give the kids a count down so he or she, upon learning that a spanking is a reality that could happen, and not an empty threat, can still have time to shape up, and you can have time to not be acting out of anger. Most discipline, when a parent actually gives a damn, actually is far more painful emotionally for them than for the child.

Spanking is immediate when immediate action is called for. If you want to reason with someone who has a limited vocabulary about the whys and why nots of the world - good luck. If you want to "reason" with someone who doesn't give a damn what you're saying and wants you to shut up and leave them be to play Xbox, good luck getting anything into their heads.

By the time a child is mid way through grade school - spankings should no longer be necessary if the parent has done a their job. Words, groundings and limitation of privileges will be plenty by then, unless the kid tries you, by back talking, being willfully disobedient on multiple occasions or by trying to strike the parent. The idea of corporal punishment should be more than enough to keep a child in line in extremes, but without the understanding that they could actually merit a spanking, the worst of punishments, by not behaving and listening to their parents, then no talking in the world will bring about understanding.

Originally posted by jfj123
Surprisingly this happens in REAL LIFE. Here is a test to prove what I'm saying. Every day you get into your car, go 20 miles over the speed limit. After 2 weeks, tell me what happens. You will probably receive a number of tickets. Those tickets (negative re-enforcement) modify your inappropriate behavior.

Yes, this is a form of negative reinforcement that appears to be working. But the cop doesn't start hitting you with his club because you were driving too fast, he gives you a ticket. That's a pretty obvious difference.

If you hit a child you are greatly increasing the likelihood that the child will grow up and resort to violence when pressed. You are also inculcating that child with fear and resentment, and teaching them that if they run out of other options they can resort to physical violence to solve their problems.

Unfortunately the typical primate response in those circumstances is to identify with the aggressor and their behavior, because that lowers the fear quotient. This is similar to how Stockholm Syndrome works. By identifying with the abuser, the child feels more secure and empowered, and before long a brain state change will occur and the alteration in perspective is permanent. This is why a lot of the pro-spanking crowd is using the argument that, "I got whooped and it did me a world of good." They learned to identify with their attacker.

This is classic brainwashing. Military forces all around the world use similar methods to reset behavior patterns in recruits; abuse, with the offer of less or no abuse if the subject will only co-operate. And yeah, abuse includes spanking.

Because of this process, most brainwashed subjects will violently defend the methodologies and ideals of the abuser. That is why when SWAT teams and military special forces rescue hostages they handcuff the hostages. If they didn't, the hostages might attack them.

Also because of this brainwashing process you are here defending your "right" to hit your child.

When you're training a dog you don't hit the dog. Why? Because if you do you are radically increasing the likelihood that the dog will become violent later in life. Dog brains work very similarly to human brains. This being the case, why is it an unacceptable training method to strike a dog but a perfectly acceptable training method to strike a human? Please explain the difference to me.

reply to post by TheAmused


Great post. People do it, children today can be horrible. Screaming, throwing fits in lobbies, and the parents the only one who hasnt noticed. Seriously, once your kid respects you enough not to throw fits like that youll both have a better relationship

Well it is pretty easy to peg who has raised teenagers (successfully) and who hasn't.

I'd be willing to bet there isn't one parent here who spanked their "child" -- I feel silly even using that word, spanking is what you would do to a small child, which I never did. I never "spanked" my young children, but I darn sure whipped them when they got big enough to think they were going to start calling the shots.



[edit on 28-7-2009 by Bombeni]

Beatings are a shortcut to compliance in effect a lazy way to parent.

I do believe children have different personalities and that it is hard to parent well when both are working hard just to make ends meet.

Many of our problems also stem from the fact that their are a lot of children born into the world unwanted and uncared for. There is no replacing genuine love and caring with neglect and beatings. My 2 cents.

OP you might like this quote: Spare the rod, spoil the fun!

an Open hand on the bottom is OK, anything else is over the line.

double post


[edit on 28-7-2009 by werk71]