US Announces $200 Milllion in Aid to Palestinians

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I am very in favor of this aide now, and can't think of one valid factual reason not to give it to them!

How about this for valid, factual reasons NOT TO:

-- The U.S. is broke

-- There are millions of homeless, jobless, starving AMERICANS (you know, living in the United States)

-- It is NOT the job of the U.S. to clean-up, support, aide, invade, protect, destroy, build, or otherwise get involved with ANY OTHER COUNTRY, especially, but not limited to, when we CAN NOT HELP OURSELVES

-- People, and businesses, and especially countries, should not be giving money away to anyone, when that money is not theirs to begin with. It is borrowed money. That we pay interest on.

-- If the Middle East ever wants to live in peace, they need to figure it out for themselves. You can not expect to solve a problem with just money, nor can you solve a problem that you are not apart of.

-- The information coming out of the Middle East is often skewed and riddled with hidden agenda and personal bias on the part of the publication. If you read the papers from Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Israel, and Jordan you will find the same story written many different ways. Don't believe everything you read.

Don't you think the best solution would be to give the money back to the American people and then let them donate as much money as they want to whomever they want?

That way you can send as much money as you want to the Palestinians, and I could help out my neighbors with 5 children that are trying to sell their house before it gets foreclosed.

200 million dollars. Whoo hoo!

That will buy a lot of AK-47s and RPGs.

Way to shore up that antagonistic situation.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Well I'll ignore the childish comments and name calling and stick to the questions. So let's start off by looking at the British Mandate of Palestine as it was between 1920 and 1948:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c0fd754332f1.jpg[/atsimg]

As you see, Palestine is to the West, Trans-Jordan is to the East.

After WWI, the League of Nations in all their infinite wisdom decided to carve the Ottoman Empire up in what they thought was the fairest way. Decision were taken with local clan leaders, taking into account demographics and language and that kind of thing.

But Palestine was a problem, because the Hashemites claimed it was theirs but it had a sizable Jewish majority, who also wanted self rule. So in typical British style, we did nothing for 28 years and just maintained a messy and often violent status quo.

After the horrors of WWII Israel declared its independence, and drew its borders. The next day it was invaded by Egypt with the help of several other countries, who openly expressed a desire to rid the Middle East of Jews.

Jordan took the bit to the east of Israel (west of the bank of the river Jordan - that's why they call it West Bank) and East Jerusalem, Egypt took the Gaza strip and I think that Syria took the Golan Heights, but I'd have to double check that. They failed to take any more territory and conceded a humiliating defeat which is still commemorated as their great tragedy. Poor guys huh?

The Jordanians basis for their claim on the land was, and continued to be until around 1970 (even after they'd lost the land again to Israel after botched invasion attempt #2), that the people living in the West Bank were Jordanian and that the people of Jordan were Palestinian. See above quotes.

It wasn't until the emergence of the PLO that Jordan started to distance itself from Palestinians because the PLO represented a threat to the ruling classes and their relationship with the west. After that they wanted nothing more to do with them and expelled the PLO from Jordan.

And the reason that there are two (slightly different) flags is that the PLO created their flag in 1964 when West Bank was under Jordanian occupation and the PLO was still based out of Jordan. It wasn't adopted as the Palestinian "national" flag until 1988.

reply to post by mattpryor

And yes over 700,000 of them live in makeshift UNRWA camps in Israel. A further 337,551 live in UNRWA run camps in Jordan, but you never hear about those. Tell me who's fault that is? People like to blame Israel, but the blame is shared by the UN and the 22 surrounding Arab nations, any one of whom could have lifted a finger to a) help improve their infrastructure or b) absorb some of those refugees. None of them have, much as they like to rally round and proclaim their solidarity with them.

I never thought there would come a day when I would actually agree with certain elements of what you are saying.

You are 100% correct to point out the arab world has been dismal in its response to the Palestinian plight. In fact they have been dismal and pathetic in the way they have allowed themselves to be so exploited and manipulated by the west and Israel to suit their own geopolitical agendas. The rampant corruption and dictatorship of these countries fits well into the strings of the western and European handlers.

Those that display solidarity with Palestine are of course treated as outlaw states, notably Iran and Libya.

I too agree with you and the OP, for the very first time, that it's a mistake to donate aid to the Palestinian Authority. That would be equivalent to throwing money down a bottomless sinkhole.

It is a well known fact that The PA is a government of unrestrained corruption. All past monetary aids have been siphoned off by the PA officials, while the people live in squalor. Then again, isn't this is what US and Israel aiming for? Have the corrupt officials in their pockets and have one side fight against the other.

The obvious choice of giving the aid to Hamas, the most if not the only incorruptible institution in the Middle East, would be against their good judgement, only in the sense that the inhabitants of Gaza will reap the full benefit of these aids. A revived and prospering Gaza would definitely not be to Israel's interest.

Hamas will see to the rebuilding of destroyed infrastructures, amenities, schools and utilities in no time. Something that would be considered an impossible dream in the Palestinian Authority with its fat cats. But its all a game of charade which the manipulating powers like to play.

A united Palestine is certainly against the interest of Israel and its lap dog the US government. Whether the citizens of the US likes it or not, it has got very little say in the amount of aid, monetary or military, that is poured into Israel every year.

The all powerful Zionist lobby, AIPAC, through changes in the campaign finance reform pushed through by pro Israel senators, ensures that its relatively small numbers could wield a vastly disproportionate influence on America's foreign policy.

This domestic lobby is essentially a foreign agent dominating America's foreign policy, and in most instances, detrimental to America's own interest especially in the Middle East. There is little that ordinary Americans can do to change that fact. In many ways, it is not in control of its own destiny. Israel is pulling the strings and is not even being discreet about it.

AIPAC executive director Howard Kohr requested recently that Israel be given $2.775 billion in military aid in 2010 and that Israel be allocated $30 billion in aid over 10 years.

This is after all the multi billions of dollars that US has been giving to Israel for the past decades. Since 1949, it has with interest, given Israel a staggering $133 billion. That each average Israel citizen gets more money in a given year from the US than it has given its own citizen, is in itself, a very disturbing fact.

That would make the donation discussed in this thread look more like tips.

reply to post by mattpryor


By the way friend Matt in case of just for your own personal knowledge you would like to know the real history the actual Zionist Manifesto was to dominate and inhabit all the lands from the Brooks of Egypt to the Mesopotamian Delta.

In large part it’s because those were the traditional roaming grounds of the Hapiri/Habiru which are today’s Hebrews.

The Hapiri/Habiru/Hebrew have a rich archeological history throughout the entire region and were intimately involved throughout the region in both good and bad ways in pre-Biblical times.

When Brittan actually created Jordan the Zionists were livid about it. In part because they knew at least come what may the treaties that allowed for Zionist immigration in to Palestine granted them 48% of the land to set up a Zionist State.

So shrinking the land by creating Jordan automatically meant their 48% slice of Palestine would naturally be smaller than they hoped for at a minimum as a consequence.

It led to a what publicly at the time was touted by the Zionists as a real and underhanded betrayal on the part of the British and served to enflame the Zionists dislike of the British which was already well evident and palpable through the activities of the various Zionist Terrorist Groups like the Stern Gang who were waging a guerilla/terrorist war against British governance already.

More importantly though by creating an independent Jordan it threw a huge stumbling block in the Zionist Manifesto to dominate the entire Middle East from the Brooks of Egypt to the Mesopotamian Delta.

It would mean that the future borders of any Zionist State would not border with modern day Iraq and give them easy access to militarily conquering or controlling that region.

The Habiru/Hapiri/Hebrew had a history in Baghdad that went much further back in time than their History in Egypt and the lands of Canaan.

It was by the way no accident that the first thing to fall and be looted when Baghdad fell to U.S. Forces was the museum.

Managing the mythical history of the Hebrews as put forth in Biblical History is no easy thing and Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo all have archeological evidence that much of the myth is false.

Egypt is paid 2 Billion a year in U.S. hush money as a result, Syria is ostracized from the International community and a closed society to the west as a result and Iraq also suffered such a fate.

Ultimately there is nothing more dangerous than a stupid friend, and if Israel really is the United States friend which in my opinion is highly questionable they are a danger because of the stupid and greedy way they manage their nation and have dealt with the indigenous population.

It’s been great for the oil business and speculators and the oil companies, and great for weapons manufacturers but it’s really been hell on the U.S. economy and our political stature in the world and how the country is now run thanks to the War on Terror that has attempted to take away too many of our Constitutional rights and created an atmosphere of fear in the U.S. instead of traditional American bravery and independence.

Ultimately Israel tries to wear it’s detractors down not from sound or intelligent arguments but just the sheer weight of shifting multiple arguments that in essence just keep constantly changing the issues and excuses in what’s little more than a carnival shell game.

It’s a stupid approach, and the truth really does set people free.

I can respect a thief but they have to be an exceptional thief and there has to be honor amongst thieves.

The propaganda is simply not credible and some of it is so far fetched it makes even the more credible attempts suspicious by extension.

It’s often argued in such a way by such people who are so ugly and vehement in their nature that it really does expose some very questionable bigotry that most fair minded human beings would find very repulsive and for good reason.

Israel is a stupid friend and it makes them more dangerous than an enemy.

Your argument really is little more than two children bickering over who got the toy first and who deserves to play with it and who doesn’t.

It’s not very mature, and it certainly isn’t honest.

Ultimately those who seek to humiliate and denigrate and degrade others like Israel and the Zionists and pro-Zionists constantly do to the Palestinians only end up humiliating and denigrating and degrading themselves in the process, and while you might not be mature or astute enough to understand that, it does make Israel not just a stupid friend but a very embarrassing one too.

You guys really need to clean up your act before the world has had enough and cleans it up for you, and the world…it really is tired of it, I sure am and obviously a lot of other people are too.

Some food for thought.

Thanks!


[edit on 29/7/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Actually the Israelis were hoping for what was agreed in the Balfour Declaration, which included Judea/Samara and Golan Heights, both of which are culturally and religiously very important to Judaism.

What was actually agreed was significantly smaller, and this was considered by some to be a betrayal by the British and the UN. While it's true that an extremist minority rejected the plan, the majority of Israelis considered it the best they could get, and this is well documented.

The Jewish Agency criticized the UNSCOP majority proposal concerning Jerusalem, saying that the Jewish section of modern Jerusalem (outside the Walled City) should be included in the Jewish State.[75] During his testimony Ben Gurion indicated that he accepted the principle of partition, but stipulated: "To partition," according to the Oxford dictionary, means to divide a thing into two parts. Palestine is divided into three parts, and only in a small part are the Jews allowed to live. We are against that."[76]

The majority of the Jewish groups, and the Jewish Agency subsequently announced their acceptance of the proposed Jewish State, and by implication the proposed international zone, and Arab State. However, it had been stipulated that the implementation of the plan did not make the establishment of one state or territory dependent on the establishment of the others.[77].

Wikipedia

Meanwhile, check out the countries that voted against resolution 181 if you please:

Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen

And then look up which countries invaded Israel in 1948 (for your convenience I've highlighted them in bold).

But that's okay, you can carry on believing your version of history if you prefer. Meanwhile I'll keep believing the history that actually happened

reply to post by mattpryor


There are so many untoward things associated with the Balfour Decleration MattPryor for it to possibly have been the greatest criminal conspiracy of all time.

Don't even get me started on that.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mattpryor

 

There are so many untoward things associated with the Balfour Decleration MattPryor for it to possibly have been the greatest criminal conspiracy of all time.

Don't even get me started on that.

Hi Protoplasmic/

Did you say possible might be?

The deal, as recounted by the former Zionist Benjamin Friedman turned Roman Catholic, was the following: Germany had won the war by 1914. Then Germany invited France and Britain to the peace table and said, “Okay, we’ve won, but there will be no losers....So what happens next, the Rothschilds send their pawn,
Chaim Weitzman, to Llyoyd George and the British parliament with these words,
“You don’t have to lose the war.
We will bring America into the War through our contacts with Woodrow Wilson.
But you’ve got to promise to give us Palestine.” (They did not mention anything about their designs on the oil fields of the Ottomon Empire or did they?). Anyways, from that conversation, the Balfour Declaration of 1917 appeared.
Read more ~source

And why shouldn't the U.S of A give aid to the Palestinians?
Why should the PEOPLE suffer for the catastrophic, horrendous crimes committed by the Greedy?
Many times I have read that AID sometimes is not given to Palestianian children with their legs and arms blown off.
If America indeed is a Christian nation, then ''AN EYE for an EYE'' should not exist!

ICXC NIKA
helen

EDIT....LINK


[edit on 7/31/2009 by helen670]

[edit on 7/31/2009 by helen670]

reply to post by helen670


And folks, here is a photo of the man who made the above assertion, from the front page of his website:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d4739974b464.jpg[/atsimg]

Seriously, is this where you guys get your information from?

Other gems of wisdom from his blog:

- The Jews Behind Michael Jackson’s Life And Death
- The War On Terror Is A Jewish Hoax
- Antichrist Will Be A Jew!

reply to post by mattpryor


Hi/

Yes and do you know the meaning of a 'Holy Fool' ?
Its in the Scriptures!
There have only been a few!
Thank you kindly for the picture!
ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by mattpryor


Hi matt/
And to add more of what you posted.

All that is written was researched and it PERFECTLY fits in with SCRIPTURE!
Even if I doubt Br.Nathanial, he is not the first to do as he does.
Do some research yourself on what the Scriptures say...
Read the Old Testament and be amazed at how ACCURATE the Prophecies have ALL been fullfilled!
Indeed Br. Nathanial is a 'Fool for Christ'!

ICXC NIKA
helen

EDIT.....To add....I think people have had enough of the Bulls*T that is fed to us through all means imaginable, time for the TRUTH!

IX
helen

[edit on 7/31/2009 by helen670]

reply to post by mattpryor


Matt,

You posts show intelligence and knowledge.

Of course, that pic did add some nice comedy relief to an otherwise tense discussion.



[edit on 7/31/2009 by mrmonsoon]

What does the TERM 'Holy Fool' mean?

"Let no man deceive himself.
If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world,
let him become a fool,
then he may be wise.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God" (1 Cor, 3, 1819)
and then: "we are fools for Christ's sake; we are weak but ye are strong; ye are honourable,
but we are despised" (1 Cor, 4, 10).

The Apostle Paul uses irony and sarcasm,
comparing the relative comfort of the Corinthians with the persecuted, poverty-stricken life of the apostles; but,
in a wider sense,
he compares those who follow Christ with those who prefer earthly values. This meaning of a "fool," as of one who is foolish in this world but wise in God,
became the biblical basis for the holy fool tradition in Eastern Christianity.



The tradition of divine idiocy in all of these contexts expresses a similar paradox: If the wisdom of the world is but folly to God,
and if God's own foolishness is the one true,
divine wisdom,then the worldly must renounce all worldly wisdom in order to become truly wise.
One must become, by an act of will, a fool.
Divine idiocy is thus a form of repudiation: one repudiates the vainglorious wisdom of the world and cultivates the childlike trust and spiritual naivete which is a defining mark of Christian perfection.

en.wikipedia.org...


ICXC NIKA
helen

Isn't all of this OFF TOPIC?

The POWERS of the ELITE are the exact fools of which are spoken of in the OLD Testament...The Book of Proverbs, as well as in the Book of Psalms, is one who "despises wisdom and instruction"
Maybe someone should point THIS out to them!

ICXC NIKA
helen

When the British mandates of Palestine was dissolved, it stripped a large population of people of their ethnic and cultural heritage as they were demoted to second class citizens within a country that in their eyes usurped their homeland. I'm sure all of the thread participants here are aware that non-Jews get treated like scum in Israel. That's why the Palestinian people call themselves "Palestinian." There was a place on the map that included Israel and the West Bank and Gaza that was all called Palestine at one point. Just because the UN gave that land to Israel it does not make these people disappear, as much as it seems that Israel would like them to disappear.

In my opinion, this is 10 pages of the OP backtracking after everyone pointed out that the "it costs us too much" justification for stopping foreign aid to Palestine just doesn't make sense when viewed in the context to foreign aid given to Israel. What the OP is doing is akin to farting in an elevator when there is only one other person in there and denying that you did it. Everyone knows the OP is full of crap, but the OP thinks as long as they don't admit defeat that they can still maybe look smart if they hang on long enough.

One more point: I think giving aid to any foreign nation doesn't make a lot sense unless it is to relieve a humanitarian crisis. With that said, I think Palestine probably deserves aid more than Israel does, especially after the recent events in Gaza. Once their infrastructure is up and running the funding should dry up. As for Israel, I don't see how they can justify hitting women and children when they have guided missiles. In my opinion there is no reason to be funding them at all until they prove they need the money or clean up their act.

reply to post by Albastion


This is off topic.............

But Gaza was never Palestine.

It was a territory of Egypt.

It was lost to Israel when Egypt, Jordan, Syria and I believe Saudi Arabia all prepared to attack and destroy Israel.....

What they got was militarily "SPAKNKED" hard.

They lost terroritory in their misguided attempt to destroy Israel.

So now that we know the truth, we can continue….