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US Announces $200 Milllion in Aid to Palestinians

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posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 08:27 AM
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FUNNY! You whine about this thread not being worth your time. You whine that 'this thread should be closed'. And yet here you are back again.




Originally posted by Kram09
Well god forbid anyone who doesn't wallow in Israeli victim hood!

It's funny how you keep bringing up Israel.
Even after I said that I don't approve of aid going to them either.
Thick much?


But i am sure you're ok with people bashing Palestine.

As I said ... there is no country of 'palestine'.


I am so very very close to making remarks towards you which will probably see me get banned.

Again .. that's your personal problem. Deal with it.


i'd love to see you form a coherent argument

Go back and read the thread. It's all there. It's just that your preformed prejudices won't allow the facts to sink into your fuzzy little head.



As i said before i can no more prove that Palestinians have starved than you can prove to me that they haven't.

As I said before, there is no evidence that anyone has starved.
In fact, they are doing rather well. They've got enough 'victimhood'
donations rolling in to afford them money to burn on weapons, ammo,
bombs, rockets, and brainwashing tv shows.

Your arguement that 'I say they are starving and you can't prove any different' is like someone saying 'the moon is made of green cheese and
unless you prove different then I'm right'.

It doesn't work that way.


without once producing a shred of evidence yourself.

Actually I have. Circumstantial .. but common sense evidence all the same.

- Hundreds of millions of our tax $$ is being pumped into that area.
- There is NO ACCOUNTABILITY.
- There are NO credible reports of ANYONE starving to death. None.
- They have overabundance enough to spend money on bombs, weapons, ammo, suicide bombers, and brainwashing TV programming.

However, the pro-palestinian posters just come on and spout nonsensical made-up stats that they grab out of the air ... stats that contradict each other. It's amatuer.


Tell me how you know that no Palestinians have died from starvation.

- There are no credible reports of anyone who has starved to death.
- If there were then Hamas would have used it as propaganda.




posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by Kram09
Well i suppose you don't mind U.S taxpayers money being spent on weapons to blow people up in other countries?

I fully support tax payer money being spent on OUR national defense.


Double standards perhaps?

No. Our national defense is a totally different subject then tax payer 'aid' going to foreign countries.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


First of all i don't keep mentioning Israel. I have used the word Israeli twice and the word Israel once. You can check this, by just looking at my other posts on this thread.

Second of all, why are you launching a personal attack on me by calling me thick?

Basically anyone who disagrees with you is thick?
You're unbelievable!

You are truely the sterotype, no the caricature of Americans that everyone loves to hate and mock!

You can't argue, you can't respect opinions, you can't provide any evidence to anything you say. You are prejudiced, probably racist too, self centred, biased and above all totally uncomprehending to any other point of view other than your own. You are truely the worst example of people who use this site. Fortunately not everyone is like you.

I will now leave this thread and i shall add you to my ignore list. You're actually the first person. I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt each time, to try and repsect your opinions, but you don't do the same, so why should i bother?

I would like to say one last thing. I am at this exact moment reading George Orwell's 1984. Perhaps you should read it sometime....that is, if you do read. Perhaps you prefer to drool like a vegetable in front of Fox News. I can't help but think that you seem like a character straight out of it's pages.

Goodbye



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



There is no state of 'palestine'. When there is a recognized country
of 'palestine' then I'll call them 'palestinians'. Until then, they are
squatters from Syria, Egypt and Jordan.


Last map I checked there was no state of Scotland or Ireland - just the United Kingdom of Britain! I will have to inform some friends there is no such thing as a Scottish or Irish people!

I agree with the not sending money as foreign aid - that every country should send food/doctors/blankets/medicine etc. But please tell why did you put those videos in the post? Why dont you show video of Pakistani taliban with figures for US aid to them? You do know Pakistan is extremely unstable and get more money than Palestine right?



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



Actually, you didn't. You think you did ... but you didn't.


Fact: All the videos show the same small group of people. Fact: There is no evidence at all that they were celebrating the bombing of America. Fact: You continuously use these videos as anti-palestinian propoganda, even though they show only a small group of people, which cannot intelligently be taken as evidence that the nation of Palestine, of even that more than a few people, celebrated on 9/11. I think that needs it's own thread to settle it.


So what? It's still WRONG. Foreign aid with our tax money is wrong.
Sending my money out of this country when it should either be left
in my pocket or .. at the very least .. used to uplift Americans is WRONG.
It doesn't matter how 'little' you think the amount is. Wrong is wrong.


Agreed. The total is a ludicrously high number. I believe only Israel should be paying for repairing the damage they did to Gaza, and no other country.


Now ask yourself, why would I make a big deal out of aid going elsewhere in the world when the article is clearly about so-called palestinians? That would NOT be in keeping with the topic of the article.


The videos you posted also are not in topic with the article. They show nothing in relation to aid. If you want to discuss the aid, fine, but you are the one that presented propoganda along with the story, making basesless claims on how the money is spent.


Now ask yourself, if they are soooooo hard up for food and medicine and education and infrastructure, then why do they spend their money on bombs, and ammo, and suicide bombers, and rockets, and brainwashing childrens' television shows? Obviously they aren't so hard up otherwise they'd not be spending the money on those things.


Provide some proof of the above claims. Show that aid money is spent on bombs, ammo, suicide bombers, rockets and brainwashing kids shows. Go on. We're waiting.


There is no country of 'palestine'. At least, not yet.


I continue to laugh at the fact you belive that somewhere has to be a country before people can be labelled as coming from there. I'm Glaswegian. Guess where that means i come from? Is it a country? No. But i'm still Glaswegian.

Someone that was born in, owns land in and flies the flag of the area called Palestine is Palestinian. It was called Palestine in biblical times, and renamed Palestine in more recent times. So the people that live there are Palestinian. It doesn't have to be a country. Not so hard eh?

For the remainder of the thread, i'll be sure to discuss only this aid to Palestine and not any other foreign aid paid for by US taxpayers.

Considering that the US mostly funded the recent Gaza assault based on the amount of military aid they give Israel (whoops! - see it's not possible!), I think giving $200 million is not a large amount. Although i believe Israel should really foot the bill, although that would come from US aid anyway! So there's no winning for the American taxpayer.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Kram09
First of all i don't keep mentioning Israel. I have used the word Israeli twice and the word Israel once.

That's 'keep mentioning' as far as I'm concerned.
Especially when the topic is tax payer funded aid to the so-called palestinians.


why are you launching a personal attack on me by calling me thick?

after all the crap you said about me now you whine when I say you are thick because you didn't read the thread? Oh ... that's rich.



You are truely the sterotype,

Whatever. I don't care. And speaking of 'launching a personal attack ...'
Spew hypocrisy much?


You can't argue, you can't respect opinions, you can't provide any evidence to anything you say. You are prejudiced, probably racist too, self centred, biased and above all totally uncomprehending to any other point of view other than your own. You are truely the worst example of people who use this site. Fortunately not everyone is like you.

Speaking of 'launching a personal attack' ... again.

And all this from someone who didn't like me saying 'thick' because
he/she didn't read the thread. NEWSFLASH - I'm not the subject
of the thread - the tax payer funded aid to the so-called palestinians is.


I will now leave this thread and i shall add you to my ignore list.

Thanks for the oh-so-dramatic announcment.
Again .. I don't care.


George Orwell's 1984. Perhaps you should read it sometime

Already have.
Perhaps you should read the facts that are on the topic of this thread.

- hundreds of millions in tax payer funded 'aid' to the so-called palestinians.
- no accountability.
- plenty of $$ to pay for rockets, ammo, bombs, and propaganda TV shows.
- no one has starved

Again - our tax money should not be spent on foreign aid and definately not be spent on maintaining the perpetual victimhood of the so-called palestinians. Either leave the money in my pocket or spend it on Americans who are in need.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Ridhya
Why dont you show video of Pakistani taliban with figures for US aid to them? You do know Pakistan is extremely unstable and get more money than Palestine right?


- Because the article was about the US Aid to the so-called Palestinians.
- The 'aid' to Pakistan is also wrong - IMHO.
- Go ahead and start a thread about US 'aid' to Pakistan. I'll flag it.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by Nammu
I think that needs it's own thread to settle it.

Great! Start it! It'll be fun



The videos you posted also are not in topic with the article. They show nothing in relation to aid.

They show why I don't want the money going to them.
My opening post was about the article and about why I am opposed to
the aid going to the so-called palestinians.


Show that aid money is spent on bombs, ammo, suicide bombers, rockets and brainwashing kids shows. Go on. We're waiting.

As I said - circumstantial evidence and common sense.
- Hundreds of millions in tax payer money flows in.
- No accountability. None.
- They have plenty of money to burn on ammo, guns, weapons, bombs, and brainwashing TV. It's all there. It didn't pop out of the air. It had to be bought. The only money flowing in, which pro-palestinians agree, is aid money. Common sense - aid money is spent on their terrorist and propaganda materials.


i'll be sure to discuss only this aid to Palestine and not any other foreign aid paid for by US taxpayers.

Excellent. An on topic poster.


As I said ... if ya'll want to start threads saying why we shouldn't be giving foreign aid to _____ (fill in the blank) country .. i'd be more than happy to flag it.


i believe Israel should really foot the bill,

I sorta agree. Sorta.
If they did something wrong then Israel should pay for it ... not us.
But from what I see Hamas caused the problems so they should be held accountable.

- Egypt has also closed it's borders with the Gaza. So to put full blame on Israel, no matter what side of the discussion you are on, is wrong. Don't forget Egypt.

- Don't forget WHY Egypt and Israel had to close their borders with the Gaza. It was because of the behavior of Hamas - the elected leadership of the so-called palestinians.

- Israel is a soverign nation and it has a right to defend itself. They deal with terrorist rockets and suicide bombers. They deal with terrorists in the Gaza that hide behind their own people and launch from schools and civilian centers. Israel has a right to shoot back and defend itself.

- Don't forget, the so-called palestinians have been kicked out of every muslim country they have tried to be a part of. Their muslim brethren have treated them like crap and keep pushing them off on Israel. Much of their situation is one of their own making and much of it is a making of their fellow muslims. Remember Black September? Let the oil rich muslim countries support their fellow muslims for a change. And yes ... the reason I brought up their religion is because over there THEY make everything about religion.

- It's not our job to feed the world. It's not our job to encourage non-ending 'victimhood'. The American taxpayer can't support the entire planet. Hell .. we can't even support our own households anymore.


So there's no winning for the American taxpayer.

I agree. Sadly ... we are screwed. It's all 'redistribution of wealth' and 'supply both sides of a conflict' to keep money flowing.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by Ridhya
Last map I checked there was no state of Scotland or Ireland - just the United Kingdom of Britain!

I dunno .. my globe has Ireland and Scotland on it.
My daughters book has 'flags of the world' ...
Scotland and Ireland are there. 'Palestine' is not.

When and if there is a soverign nation of 'palestine' I'll refer to it as such.
But until then ... there are just palestine wannabes.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 09:34 AM
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Notice how I said 'state'. And well I've seen old maps that said PALESTINE and Mandate of Palestine.

Um there is a palestinian flag its like green and black and has a triangle.

How about Tibet? Are there no Tibetan people? They should just give up and be Chinese!

My point really is that modern day does not say who people are. I am Scandinavian to the core, yet I see no Scandinavia on a modern map. Doesnt mean Im not. If you were to condescendingly say 'so-called Scandinavian people!' to me I would be furious.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by Ridhya

Um there is a palestinian flag its like green and black and has a triangle.


Yep, and funnily enough it's identical to the Jordanian flag without the white star.

Which kind of proves Flyer's point



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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Maybe someone gave Clinton a Little Mommy Doll




posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 





- It's not our job to feed the world. It's not our job to encourage non-ending 'victimhood'. The American taxpayer can't support the entire planet. Hell .. we can't even support our own households anymore.


Why are you worried about a paltry 200 million when Israel has had between 100-150 BILLION?
When did America ever feed anyone? Is Israel hungry?..lol
If American government is funding Palestine then it is nothing to do with Palestine and any help towards the people, it will be part of a bigger picture, one that is no doubt evil. America does not even care about it's own people why would they care about the Palestinians? America (or rather, those in charge) destroys for its own ends...it does not 'support the entire planet'. Why does America fund/create/engage in wars...look into that and you will no longer worry about 200 million. In fact you will be terrified at the leadership you are living under no matter which puppet is in place.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



As I said - circumstantial evidence and common sense.
- Hundreds of millions in tax payer money flows in.
- No accountability. None.
- They have plenty of money to burn on ammo, guns, weapons, bombs, and brainwashing TV. It's all there. It didn't pop out of the air. It had to be bought. The only money flowing in, which pro-palestinians agree, is aid money. Common sense - aid money is spent on their terrorist and propaganda materials.


Circumstantial evidence is not proof, and you know it. I can understand that you have formed your opinion based on these points, but it us just your opinion formed out of no evidence.

Now, here's a news article from 2007 stating:


In a bleak report to donors obtained by Reuters on Tuesday, the international lending agency said local revenues were not enough to sustain the government's wage bill and that there was little chance of improvement as long as Israel refused to lift restrictions on Palestinian travel and trade.

The World Bank said 94 percent of the foreign aid needed by the Palestinian Authority would be used to cover recurring expenditures, including salaries, utility bills and social payments, leaving little money to fund development


Palestinian government seen needing $1.6 bln a year

Things haven't improved for Palestine since 2007. In fact the recent assault by Israel has made things a lot worse. So it may be safe to assume that perhaps foreign aid is acounted for, but used simply for public spending, paying wages, keeping utilities running and keeping the country afloat. I'm not sure of the social security system in Palestine, but with unemployment being estimated at about 20-30% that's a lot of unemployed people to support.

The truth is, none of us know for sure where that money is being spent. Us arguing whether it's spent on bombs, schools, building new homes, paying wages or blowing up Israelis is absolutely pointless. We have no evidence either way.


Egypt has also closed it's borders with the Gaza. So to put full blame on Israel, no matter what side of the discussion you are on, is wrong. Don't forget Egypt.

- Don't forget WHY Egypt and Israel had to close their borders with the Gaza. It was because of the behavior of Hamas - the elected leadership of the so-called palestinians.


That's off topic. We're discussing US aid to Palestine, not Egypt.



- Israel is a soverign nation and it has a right to defend itself. They deal with terrorist rockets and suicide bombers. They deal with terrorists in the Gaza that hide behind their own people and launch from schools and civilian centers. Israel has a right to shoot back and defend itself.


Palestinians agreed to give some land, and had the rest stolen. Now they live in a walled in concentration camp just the size of the city i live in with over 3 times the population. If someone steals your land, land that you paid for and have the deeds for, do you not have the right to defend yourself?


Don't forget, the so-called palestinians have been kicked out of every muslim country they have tried to be a part of. Their muslim brethren have treated them like crap and keep pushing them off on Israel. Much of their situation is one of their own making and much of it is a making of their fellow muslims. Remember Black September? Let the oil rich muslim countries support their fellow muslims for a change. And yes ... the reason I brought up their religion is because over there THEY make everything about religion.


Yeah so lets make all the kids that have got nothing to do with any of what happened before pay the price, instead of trying to make things better and move forward. You sound like you want to punish them for the rest of eternity for the past, even the people that weren't involved in any of that. Sounds like what some ignorant people think about Jewish folk. That's really bad. And they weren't pushed off on Israel. They were there first remember?


It's not our job to feed the world. It's not our job to encourage non-ending 'victimhood'. The American taxpayer can't support the entire planet. Hell .. we can't even support our own households anymore.


Definitely agreed there. US needs to close the foreign bases, send the soldiers home to thier families, stop getting involved in other countries business, and keep US $ for US people. UK needs to do the same. Our imperialist days ruined us.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by mattpryor

Originally posted by Ridhya
Um there is a palestinian flag its like green and black and has a triangle.

Yep, and funnily enough it's identical to the Jordanian flag without the white star.


The former king of Jordan (who is now dead) said that 'palestinians are jordanians'. I used to have a link to that quote .. i'll have to see if I can go dig it up.

Anyways, the leadership of Jordan considers palestinians to be jordanians.
The mass murdering pedophile terrorist Arafat was from Egypt.
They outsourced for their leadership.


Originally posted by oneclickaway
Why are you worried about a paltry 200 million when Israel has had between 100-150 BILLION?.

You didn't read the thread, did you?


Originally posted by Nammu
Circumstantial evidence is not proof, and you know it.

'and you know it'....

Circumstanial evidence and common sense .. proof enough.

- they have no income other than aid. Even pro-palestinians say so.
- they have TONS of weapons and bombs that they bought.
- with no other source of income the aid HAS TO be paying for it.

Where there is smoke, there is fire.


That's off topic. We're discussing US aid to Palestine, not Egypt.

If you blame Israel for the gaza border closings and therefore for the need of 'aid' then you have to make note of the fact that the gaza border with Egypt is also closed.


Palestinians agreed to give some land, and had the rest stolen.

'Stolen' is your opinion. Stolen or squatting on or rightfully theirs ... anyway you look at it they don't deserve our tax money. Nobody deserves it except us ... back in my pocket or at the very least helping my fellow Americans.


Yeah so lets make all the kids that have got nothing to do with any of what happened before pay the price, instead of trying to make things better and move forward.

It's not our job to make life better for them. It's their job to make life better for themselves by behaving in a civilized manner. It's the job of their fellow OIL RICH MUSLIM brethren to help. Not my job.

And again - I bring in their religious affiliation because THEY always do and THEY always make reference to it.


they weren't pushed off on Israel. They were there first remember?

They are from Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
As I said - the king of Jordan said 'palestinians are Jordanians'.
Since the king of Jordan (the dead one) admitted that, then let Jordan give them 'aid'.


US needs to close the foreign bases, send the soldiers home to thier families, stop getting involved in other countries business, and keep US $ for US people. UK needs to do the same.




posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



Anyways, the leadership of Jordan considers palestinians to be jordanians.


Not anymore: Jordan begins revoking Jordanian nationality for Palestinians

Edit: The quote you were looking for was made by King Hussein's brother Hassan when addressing the Jordanian National Assembly on February 2nd 1970:


"Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is one people and one land, with one history and one and the same fate."



[edit on 28-7-2009 by mattpryor]



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by FlyersFan
 



Anyways, the leadership of Jordan considers palestinians to be jordanians.


Not anymore: Jordan begins revoking Jordanian nationality for Palestinians

Edit: The quote you were looking for was made by King Hussein's brother Hassan when addressing the Jordanian National Assembly on February 2nd 1970:


"Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is one people and one land, with one history and one and the same fate."



[edit on 28-7-2009 by mattpryor]


Wow a monarch set up in power post 1946 in Jordan by a CIA Coup says...

You pro-Zionists never cease to crack me up with your steady offerings of propoganda aimed at trying to excuse Israeli crimes against humanity and your own blatant racism.

If Israel gets aide Palestine should get equal aide.

No one should get it or everyone should get it, and then we wouldn't have to worry about psuedo Americans with dual allegiances constantly subverting American sovereignty for their own nefarius and evil agenda.

Wouldn't that be great.

No choosing sides just like our forefathers wanted. All people created equal just like our forefathers wanted.

We could go back to strong moral ideals instead of bankrupt Zionist ones.

I will let you pro-Zionists get back to patting each other on the back now, supporting each other's blatant lies and and obsufocation of real history and starring each other.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
If Israel gets aide Palestine should get equal aide.

Ya' didn't read the thread .. or you only saw what you wanted to see.
No where did anyone say Israel should get aid and the so-called palestinians should get nothing.
We pretty much all said no one should get anything ... it's not our job.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



Circumstanial evidence and common sense .. proof enough.

- they have no income other than aid. Even pro-palestinians say so.
- they have TONS of weapons and bombs that they bought.
- with no other source of income the aid HAS TO be paying for it.

Where there is smoke, there is fire.


They have no other income except aid because that it all Israel will allow. So the solution would then be for Israel to stop the blockade and allow Palestine to function economically for itself, eliminating the need for it to rely solely on aid as the only source of income. This would solve the problem and save the US taxpayers money.


If you blame Israel for the gaza border closings and therefore for the need of 'aid' then you have to make note of the fact that the gaza border with Egypt is also closed.


Israel controls Gaza. Israel moved those people to the camps and took their land. Egypt didn't. Political pressure from both the US and Israel, and the huge amounts of money received from the US sees that the border with Egypt remains closed.


'Stolen' is your opinion. Stolen or squatting on or rightfully theirs ... anyway you look at it they don't deserve our tax money. Nobody deserves it except us ... back in my pocket or at the very least helping my fellow Americans.


If you legally own a piece of land, then you legally own it. They were not 'squatting'. People had deeds to land. It doesn't get more simple than that.


It's not our job to make life better for them. It's their job to make life better for themselves by behaving in a civilized manner. It's the job of their fellow OIL RICH MUSLIM brethren to help. Not my job.

And again - I bring in their religious affiliation because THEY always do and THEY always make reference to it.


Well, if Israel would give them a chance to try and make life better, then maybe they would. At the moment they're stuck between a rock and a hard place and they're choking in between.

And who is THEY? No ones mentioned religion apart from you and now you're suddenly having a go at all muslims and not just Palestinians. True colours are showing a bit there Flyers. Watch it.


They are from Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
As I said - the king of Jordan said 'palestinians are Jordanians'.
Since the king of Jordan (the dead one) admitted that, then let Jordan give them 'aid'.


They do not have passports or citizenship for Syria, Jordan or Egypt. They may have derived from people from those countries, but that's a different matter. That's like me saying Americans are all European and should return there, or that African Americans are really African so African countries should pay their welfare. Mega bigotry. They live in Palestine. They are Palestinian. Israel ruined the country using your money, now you have to pay to fix it. I'd be p'd off too.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Don't like that quote then I take it? Did it hit a nerve?

Here are a few more quotes (sorry, Zionist propaganda) for you to enjoy:


"Palestine and Transjordan are one, for Palestine is the coastline and Transjordan the hinterland of the same country."


King Abdullah, at the Meeting of the Arab League, Cairo, 12th April 1948


"There is no family on the East Bank of the river (Jordan) that does not have relatives on the West Bank ... no family in the west that does not have branches in the east."


King Hussein, addressing the Jordanian National Assembly, 2nd February 1972


"We consider it necessary to clarify to one and all, in the Arab world and outside, that the PALESTINIAN PEOPLE with its nobility and conscience is to be found HERE on the EAST Bank (of the Jordan River), The WEST Bank and the Gaza Strip. Its overwhelming majority is HERE and nowhere else."


King Hussein, quoted in An-Hahar, Beirut, 24th August 1972


"Palestine and Jordan were both (by then) under British Mandate, but as my grandfather pointed out in his memoirs, they were hardly separate countries. Transjordan being to the east of the River Jordan, it formed in a sense, the interior of Palestine."


King Hussein, in his memoirs


"Jordan is not just another Arab state with regard to Palestine but, rather, Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan in terms of territory, national identity, sufferings, hopes and aspirations, both day and night. Though we are all Arabs and our point of departure is that we are all members of the same people, the Palestinian-Jordanian nation is one and unique, and different from those of the other Arab states."


Marwan al Hamoud, former minister of agriculture, Jordan

It's amazing how good these Zionists are at their propaganda, they even write Arab leaders speeches for them! Those Joos, they get everywhere!



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