My arrest hell after gang beat son

i agree that we have the right to defend ourselves and our friends and family.

i also think that there are obvious levels of defense and stabbing a kid repeatedly surpasses this in MHO.

while i do not fault the man for protecting his step son i do fault him for the multipule stabbing.

if he feels that this is justified defense so be it but he most defiantly needs to appear before a jury of his peers to see if they agree with him. and if they do not he should have to accept the punishment.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


TurkeyBurger, I swear I am not picking on you on purpose, but we do have an "arrest record" in addition to our criminal record. Most normal searches would not bring it up, but if you are applying for a government job, or a teacher, or law enforcement, it will certainly hurt your chances.

My ex-wife missed out on a good forensics position because of a simple arrest when we were 20, over pawning $100 ring. There were never any charges filed. My old roommate missed out on a Missouri Highway Patrol job because of getting pulled over in my car once without my knowledge. When they interviewed me and I had no knowledge of the incident it ruled him out of the position! I have heard of others. The record of your arrest can be explained away, but a lot of employers stop right there. In today's job market there are too many other qualified individuals to compete with!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
In today's job market there are too many other qualified individuals to compete with!

first of all, this incident was in the UK, american arrest records seem fairly irrelevant. secound, this guy owns his own company, is 56 and went to the newspapers to complain, so he obviously hasn't got any worries about his next job application.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
I do not think that you will have any sort of arrest record if the charges are dropped? You are confusing an arrest record for a conviction record. If the accused is found innocent of the crime then they will not have a permanent record saying that they were arrested for stabbing someone.

Unless I am wrong about how the law works? I was under the impression of innocent until proven guilty? That there is usually a trial and court hearings to determine if the arrest charges stick or if they are dropped?

Maybe it is different in England?

This is not true. Being charged with something can stay on your record for many years. I know this as fact because it has happened to me. I was arrested for a crime I did not commit, I was questioned and then placed in jail for 3 days. I was 19 years old at the time. I was released after 3 days, never charged, and never required to go to court. The police concluded their investigation and found that there was no evidence to link me to the crime that I was arrested for. Many years later, at the age of 35 I had to go to court due to some traffic issues. My attorney showed me a copy of my "FBI file" and to my shock there it was in my face, printed out along with every other legal issue I had ever had, put in their as if I had actually committed the crime. There was no note that says charges dropped, lack of evidence, nothing like that at all. Just sitting there on that paper as if it were fact and I had committed that act.

It is so cliche to say, "Innocent until proven guilty". Sure, it is a great concept but that's all it is. A concept. That is just not how it works anymore, you are guilty if the police say you are guilty, you are found guilty when they can prove it in court. Have you ever tried to argue a traffic ticket for speeding when you know you were not speeding? Guess what? You are still found guilty because that police officer said you were speeding and the judge will take his word over yours. Why do you think most people just pay the ticket instead of going to court to fight it?

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by getreadyalready
In today's job market there are too many other qualified individuals to compete with!

first of all, this incident was in the UK, american arrest records seem fairly irrelevant. secound, this guy owns his own company, is 56 and went to the newspapers to complain, so he obviously hasn't got any worries about his next job application.

And the man should complain!! He should be screaming it from the rooftops! IT IS WRONG that he should be arrested for defending his family, his home, his property and his life. Police are supposed to be PUBLIC SERVANTS, as in they are here to serve YOU. They are not here to lock up someone for defending themselves while waiting for their empolyee to finally show up and do his job!

What I will say next might be harsh but it is the main reason why it will become harder to take it up for our own rights.

When it would be legal to take rights in our own hands,it would be the one thing that holds many back now to stand up against government.

So it is almost impossible to take vengeance legally.

This man will sadly loose the corporate trials to be another warning.

I refuse to believe that there exists a permanent record that resulted in a case of mistaken identity.

You would have a 30 million dollar lawsuit on your hands.

There is no record of undue arrests.

Police could arrest someone and then say "Oops wrong person" and your life would still be screwed. I do not believe this. I need to see some proof to back this claim up.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
I refuse to believe that there exists a permanent record that resulted in a case of mistaken identity.
You would have a 30 million dollar lawsuit on your hands.
There is no record of undue arrests.
Police could arrest someone and then say "Oops wrong person" and your life would still be screwed. I do not believe this. I need to see some proof to back this claim up.

govarrestrecords.com...
To search for "arrests" not convictions!

www.courts.mo.gov...
For Missouri, to get an arrest expunged when charges are not brought!

The information included in a criminal record varies between countries and even between jurisdictions within a country. In most cases it lists all non-expunged criminal offenses and may also include traffic offenses such as speeding and drunk-driving. In some countries the record is limited to actual convictions (where the individual has pleaded guilty or been declared guilty by a qualified court) while in others it also includes arrests, charges dismissed, charges pending and even charges of which the individual has been acquitted

en.wikipedia.org...

Good Enough??

Originally posted by MrWendal
Police are supposed to be PUBLIC SERVANTS, as in they are here to serve YOU.

they are also there to defend the kid that was stabbed.

They are not here to lock up someone for defending themselves while waiting for their empolyee to finally show up and do his job!

they are there to arrest and detain in connection with any case where they find reasonable grounds to arrest and detain. are you going to try to argue that?

reply to post by getreadyalready

Expungement of criminal records

In the United States, criminal records may be expunged, though laws vary by states. Many types of offenses may be expunged, ranging from parking fines to felonies. In general, once sealed or expunged, all records of an arrest and/or subsequent court case are removed from the public record, and the individual may legally deny or fail to acknowledge ever having been arrested for or charged with any crime which has been expunged. However, when applying for a state professional license or job that is considered a public office or high security (e.g. security guard, law enforcement, or related to national security), you must confess that you have an expunged conviction or else be denied clearance by the DOJ. There is no post-conviction relief available in the Federal system, other than a Presidential Pardon.

From that same page. So yes maybe some countries will keep the record of arrest forever but sure as heck not in the U.S.!

The lesson to take away from this thread is USA PWNS, UK is FTL.

I think we all need to look at this. This is from the Crown Prosecution Service website. This is about as official as it gets.

Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in selfdefence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.

As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence.

Crown Prosecution Service

I'd say a 5 on your son situation is a fairly extreme circumstance. He will almost certainly walk away from this scot-free.

The myth that you're not allowed to defend your own home in Britain is just that, a myth, propagated by right-wing rags like the Daily Mail.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


No, they do keep it forever, unless you "ask" or send in a formal request to have it expunged! It does not automatically expire and fall off your record.

I gave a couple of examples earlier, but my best friend just reminded me of his experience. He was arrested for "menacing" on a city bus in California when he was 18. No charges were ever filed. When he applied for a concealed weapon permit in Florida last year, he was denied. Upon investigation, it was because of this arrest. It took him 6 months and about 30 phone calls to get the record expunged, and he eventually did get the concealed license!!

If that had been a job interview for FDLE or FHP or many others, he would have never gotten the job! Luckily for him he found out about this while getting something that wasn't time-sensitive.

reply to post by CRB86


You do know if he walks scots free from this, If the family decided to do so, they could take a private law suit out on this husband, through the civil courts, if his case is flung out of the Crown Courts.

reply to post by Laurauk


just as he can bring a case against the vandals, no?

reply to post by getreadyalready


Yeah I do see your point. Sorry you had to prove it to me it is just hard for me to consider the fact that a record of arrest is kept even in the case of mistaken identity. That is some 1984 crap going on right there.

You are right you do have to ask for it to be removed. That is pretty crappy. Guilty until asked to be removed is more like it. I am sure there is no one asking if you want it removed when you are found to have been wrongfully arrested. Sounds like something you have to do yourself.

I sure hope that they do not store all of the wrongful arrest records on one mainframe. I would be tempted to take a flamethrower to it and melt it into a nice pool of freedom fuel.

reply to post by pieman


Yes, the husband could also take out a private lawsuit against these 5 youths involved with the vandalism..

To think that this case could just end at the Crown, courts, I am just trying to point out to others, how if the Youth involved, could milk this to his own avantage if he decided to so. And continue to make this familys lifes hell.

But you are correct the family who were attacked could also do the exact same thing.



[edit on 27-7-2009 by Laurauk]

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers

I sure hope that they do not store all of the wrongful arrest records on one mainframe. I would be tempted to take a flamethrower to it and melt it into a nice pool of freedom fuel.

FEEL FREE!! You will be a celebrity and folk hero! Please try not to get caught until you get the credit and insurance bureaus as well!!

I will help mount a defense fund for you!

If someone was kicking the # out of one of my family members I think I would also see red and use any means at my disposal to stop them, and I mean any means.
The youths were scum, simple as that.

Originally posted by axehappy
I can't believe it when things like this happen...
What is the law there for!?

Should this man have just stood by and watched his son be killed?
I know I wouldn't have gone in against 5 guys with just my bare hands... especially not if I were his age trying to protect my family... IMO a weapon of some sort is fair game!

The law has got it all wrong... he should have been praised, not arrested.

This makes me sick... its no wonder people think they can do whatever they like these days.

www.thesun.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

www.dailymail.co.uk...

[edit on 27/7/09 by axehappy]

EDIT to add a link with more info

[edit on 27/7/09 by axehappy]

Exactly.....Very few 57 year old men can defend themselves with their bare hands against one man. And the fact there were 5 of them is just crazy.

This world and all those who run things are complete Sh*t. I've just about given up on our people and those in charge adn their dumb stupid ignorant rules......

I just watched The day the earth stood still last night for the first time and the message in it is clear .......We NEED to change.....as a whole.........Many don't WANT to change , but we NEED to.

If we are destroyed because we refuse to change, even if it is the fault of theose in charge, then so be it.........We suck as species...........

A lot of you people seem really trigger happy...like you are just waiting for the chance to use your weapon on someone...