My arrest hell after gang beat son

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posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 08:50 AM
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For those of you who think he overreacted and should be charged, I wonder how you would react if you feared for your life or a family members life?

Its easy to play armchair quarterback, but when put in the heat of the situation, few untrained people react the way they think they would.

If criminals feared retribution like this, maybe they would think twice next time.




posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 08:52 AM
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Just to clarify... no-one got killed.

He's being charged with attempted murder. The kid who got stabbed is recovering well in hospital, after a punctured lung.

Sad thing is, knowing kids today, he'll probably brag about any stab wound scars to his mates ... 'look how hard I am, I got stabbed 5 times and laughed it off'. Nice new status symbol.



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 08:55 AM
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Sounds like TPTB in the UK is going to use this guy in their pursuit to further outlaw law abiding citizens' self defense from law breaking criminals and thugs. Sad indeed.



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 08:58 AM
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The problem I have with this is it sends the wrong signals out.

While "not-ok", it's not bad for a group of yobs to cause damage and assault. They would normally end up with a suspended sentence, an ASBO or community service.

The big problem is that is lets these scummy b*stards know that someone 'defending' themselves against them will undoubtedly be charged, thereby enforcing this youth/young mentality that they're untouchable or that there's nothing anyone can do against them. And here in the UK, that's very prevalent right now, sadly.

I agree with the post above : you cannot walk about with a knife/weapon and use it when you feel threatened. In that instance, if something happened, you would be asked, "Well why did you allow yourself to be put into that sitution in the first place - you didn't have to arm yourself and walk to {location/place} - you could have stayed home."

But conversely, people on your property, damaging your property and attacking a family member. In my opinion you should have all the legal rights in the world to stop the assault, whatever it takes.

And this isn't Hollywood. You don't "shoot the gun from his hand" or ninja-kick the knife out of the air. You take down the attacker/assailant by aiming for the largest body mass - the chest/torso. And you don't slap them - you take them down so they can't get back up to further assault your or your family.

I really don't see the problem with that. Provided it can be argued quite clearly THAT was the case (as this case is VERY clear), the man shouldn't be charged with anything.

Sad what this country is coming to.


[edit on 27-7-2009 by noonebutme]



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 08:59 AM
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Kicking a person to the head can be considered attempted murder also. Don't believe everything you see in the movies. Just because you stab someone doesn't mean they instantly drop dead.
I was stabbed once, with a hunting knife. I didn't even realize it until I had lost enough blood to make me drop. Now, if a person is drunk or high on drugs it is possible for them to not even feel the wound. In my case it was adrenaline.
Don't judge the guy as guilt of attempted murder until you understand what his motivation was or have been in the same situation. In this case it looks like he was protecting his son.
Whoever said you can't take the law into your own hands is wrong in a situation like this. You have every right to protect yourself or someone else from vicious assault.



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by noonebutme
 



you cannot walk about with a knife/weapon and use it when you feel threatened. In that instance, if something happened, you would be asked, "Well why did you allow yourself to be put into that sitution in the first place - you didn't have to arm yourself and walk to {location/place} - you could have stayed home."


I entirely disagree!! I am a law-abiding citizen. I work, pay taxes, take care of my kids, mow my grass, etc. I can walk anywhere I choose! If I don't trust the police to protect me, I can carry a weapon. A walking stick, a pocket knife, or in my case a gun! I have a license to carry a concealed weapon. I have weapons training.

Now, if I want to walk my dog through a bad neighborhood, and some thug decides to harrass me, I can can defend myself with as much force as necessary! I accept 0% of the blame. My taxes pay for that road. I may have friends in that neighborhood, and I did not initiate any trouble!

It is irrelavent what I was doing there. If more people were willing and capable of defending themselves, we would not have "bad" neighborhoods!! If everyone in these areas, took daily walks, armed to the teeth, and with the knowledge that the law was on their side, the thugs would relocate or cease to do business!!!



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:08 AM
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If you have nothing better to do than act like a thug, hooligan, and roam about city streets with your "Hood" looking for trouble, robbing and /or beating up people, and you end up getting dead in one of your headbanger brawls by a 57 year old man defending one of your targetted victims, then good riddens to ya.


The man walks as far as i'm concerned.


Unfortunately, it's up to the prosecutor whether to let the guy off for being a good samaratin/hero who defended himself while defending an innocent victim(out numbered by a gang of hooligan thugs I might add). But that takes common sense, and amoung prosecutors common sense is quite uncommon. That goes double for cops.

[edit on 27/7/09 by John Matrix]



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
You have every right to protect yourself or someone else from vicious assault.


Agreed.
Its just a pity that UK law doesn't seem to see it that way.

I have every faith that the prosecuter will see it the way most of us here have and say it was self defence and acceptable force, and he'll walk away without any charges.

My whole problem with this is that he even has to be judged at all. The law should allow for things like this, as a deterrant to criminals.

If they knew that people could defend themselves, without fear of the law, they might think twice before committing criminal activities at all.

Lets face it... most criminals in this country will not be afraid of the law... especially kids. At worst they go to young offenders, and get all the latest games and fun things to play with. Probably more than have at home.

If they knew that they could get their asses kicked, maybe they'd think twice.




[edit on 27/7/09 by axehappy]



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


I see what you're saying and can appreciate it. And I do agree - we should all be able to freely walk about the city without fear of being assaulted. In fact, it seems silly that there'd be places known as "no-go" areas in a city. Seems ridiculous!

I'm only arguing from a legal point of view if an altercation happened in said scenario, TPTB would try to demonise the victim and turn the tables on you.

I'm not saying it's "right" or that I think it's right. I don't. At all.

I do agree with you. But here in the UK, it seems the political correctness, Human Rights groups and so on are making everything so difficult for the law-abiding people that it's the criminals who end up with freedom and the good guys imprisoned for fear of standing up for their rights.



EDIT: I said "legal point of view" - I don't mean I know the law in any professional capacity - I meant how the event would most likely be viewed from the eyes of the legal system.



[edit on 27-7-2009 by noonebutme]



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by noonebutme
 



But here in the UK, it seems the political correctness, Human Rights groups and so on are making everything so difficult for the law-abiding people that it's the criminals that end up with freedom.

Too much control rests in the hands of the prosecution/police/legal system! I agree that an over-zealous prosecutor could easily make me out to be a vigilante looking for trouble. And if I couldn't find an ace lawyer, the jury may be misled into believing they had no choice but to convict. It is sad to see juries upset at their own verdicts, but thinking they have no choice!!

The whole point of involving juries and judges, is so that human insight and common sense have a place in these proceedings! Prosecutors have become very adept in convincing judges and juries that we must follow the "letter of the law"! If that were the case, we wouldn't need judges and juries!!



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Too true!



2nd line



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by Laurauk
You cannot take the law into your own hands. Two wrongs do not make this right.

Those teenagers should be charged also with assault, vandalism etc.

Although the father was trying todefend his son/property. He will stil be charged under the law for using a knife and stabbing someone.

It wil be up for the P/F, to decide weither or not the case should be pursuede, to the courts.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by Laurauk]


It would have been much more civilized and law abiding if the half asleep 57 year old man walked out and asked the gang of thugs to stop kicking his son in the head wouldn't it? That would have solved it right?

In your scenario, the man would not have grabbed the first thing he could find handy(a frickin letter opener). Ever see a letter opener? Dull blade. Very dull. Anyway, the man goes outside without the "letter opener" and he asks the boys to let his son go. The gang jumps him and now we have a woman left with no son and no husband and a national cleaning company with employees that have no boss. The thugs walk away to do the same to you tomorrow.

Your world view is very, Very idealistic and ideologies do not always work in a real world because people do not always do as you think they should.

Grow up!!

PS: This is your mindset at work:

You are getting mugged and robbed by a gang of thugs.
Man comes to your rescue and gets attacked by thugs.
Man pulls gun and shoots one thug....not fatally.
Thugs flea the scene like the cowards they are.
Cops come and you say "arrest that man, he just shot that kid".

How ungreatful does that sound to you?



[edit on 27/7/09 by John Matrix]



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:36 AM
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he shoulda grabbed a gun, one shot and they would all go running. i definitely don't think the man should go to jail. when criminals think they might end up dead, then they might get a job instead. In Kennessaw county, near Atlanta GA. It is a law, that all male's must own a gun. The crime rate is very low, they have had one murder in 10 years. If you try to rob a house in Kennessaw, chances are, the owners have a gun. And they will shoot you.



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by manmaidslave
he shoulda grabbed a gun, one shot and they would all go running.


But this is the UK.... only the criminals have guns....

Us law-abiding citizens have to make do with letter-openers and other deadly household objects.

[edit on 27/7/09 by axehappy]



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:47 AM
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Any of you on your high horse this AM been in a knife fight or had to use a knife for self defense? Probably not. Moreover, it was a letter opener and the initial stab or two was likely insufficient to repel the attack.

I love the liberal knee jerk assumption to blame the victims.

"Well, he went to far!"

Tell yah what, I'll go grab a few gang members, let them start beating the h*ll out of you, then we will see your thoughts.



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:47 AM
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BS ,if your family is attacked by anyone you have the right to do whatever it takes to protect them .Its nice and good to condemn this man because it wasnt your son ,daughter ,wife or mother .So i guess if i come outside and my wife is being gang raped ,I instead of shooting the bastards to death ,i should call the police and just watch the crime until 2 hours later when they finally show up .We are becoming weaker every day to evil ,if the kid did not want to risk getting stabbed 5 times he should not have participated in the act .You all cry for him but lets say tmrw your mother is assaulted and you have the choice of stabbing the assailant or sitting by and doing nothing .What would you do then ?

[edit on 27-7-2009 by essanance]



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by Laurauk
You cannot take the law into your own hands. Two wrongs do not make this right.


False! You statement is a cliche that is not correct. Belief in cliche's often keep stupid people from thinking for themselves and getting smarter.


You can take the law into your own hands.

It's called the law of self defence.

Most civilized countries have on the books.

It's found in the Old Testament.

Those laws give you the right to protect yourself, home, property, family, etc.

Especially at night. Night means when it's dark.....just so ya know.


I can tell you have no loved ones. At least none that you care enough about that you would lay down your life to protect them. Likewise, no one cares enough about you to lay down their life to protect you.....right?




posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 10:00 AM
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"Your Honor,My client wasn't trying to kill the perp,he was trying to give him some piercings.It's all the rage these days."

Big dog,little dog,baseball bat.Something,with the jury in mind,behind the door.I like a sharp katana.Perfect for catching that vulnerable reaching hand/wrist/kote as he goes for his gun,eh?Extra points if he shoots himself in the balls.Can I say that?



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by axehappy
The law has got it all wrong... he should have been praised, not arrested.


oh ffs, populist sensationalist nonsense. he stabbed a kid five times in the chest, of course he should be arrested. weather or not he was justified to stab the kid is not a decision the police should have any power to make. grow up.


This is a prime example of why they need stronger gun laws across the pond.



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by Laurauk
You cannot take the law into your own hands. Two wrongs do not make this right.


False! You statement is a cliche that is not correct. Belief in cliche's often keep stupid people from thinking for themselves and getting smarter.


You can take the law into your own hands.

It's called the law of self defence.

Most civilized countries have on the books.

It's found in the Old Testament.

Those laws give you the right to protect yourself, home, property, family, etc.

Especially at night. Night means when it's dark.....just so ya know.


I can tell you have no loved ones. At least none that you care enough about that you would lay down your life to protect them. Likewise, no one cares enough about you to lay down their life to protect you.....right?







Applaud well said sir!!!!!





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