Why the planes?

reply to post by weedwhacker

Sorry for 'trolling'....was that YOU accusing people who bring actual information to this thread? Or, if it was someone else, my apologies.

??? You should pay more attention to who is saying what!

As for your assumption about my confusion. It is false. I was not talking about the Airfones. As the OS states passengers called from their cells phones. Some even used their full names to identify themselves to loved ones. Weird but part of the OS. Lord knows I have never called a family member and said to them " This is Rxxxxxx Pxxxx Sxxxx dad" People don't talk like that. not even in shock.

More then that people don't talk like that at 20,000 feet on a cell phone in 2001.

Revisit the OS cell phone transcripts WeedWhacker.

As for the ability to fly blind hundreds of miles to find your target?...None of those flights hit the seaboard and flew by the coast. The Flight paths were tracked despite the planes being occasionally lost by Radar.

And your idea of radar is wrong. With the IFF the ATC in charge of that plane tracks it as he hands it off from one sector to another. When the IFF is lost it shows up on all ATC radar screens. Other things that show up on radar include Hot air balloons and flocks of birds. That would be the back round clutter you refer too. In the middle of a crisis I should think every little blip would be monitored and investigate... But according to the OS their was no blip at all for about 20 minutes.

NOT POSSIBLE!

And as for Land making a good landmark at 20,000 feet at 500 miles per hour...yeah right.

I see how little you fly. Other Pilots here do too.

reply to post by titorite


The cell phone calls were made from UAL93, when it was at low altitude...8000 to 5000. Total of TWO cell phone calls, rest AirFone.

I don't know about the full name thing...was it on voicemails for legal reasons? Like, life insurance in case they died? (just speculating)

Landmarks from 20,000 and 500...nice deflection there. Also, nice to twist some words, not noticing the flippant portion, and ignore the rest. Very gallant. Please re-read.

Your impression of how ATC Radar works is flawed. Where, please did you get the notion that when the transponder (you keep saying IFF...that is obsolete, in civil aviation terms) signal is lost, EVERYTHING pops up??? Hot air balloons? Bird flocks?? Don't you know that, at ARTCC, in the 'High' sectors, they have to switch viewing modes?

I'd like to see where you got your info, regarding the magic of ATC Radar.

Now...once more, since I can't sit you down in a simulator to teach you how to use the FMS, perhaps you'll enjoy watching a video about it. There are tons of wannabe airline pilots out there, nowadays, who love the MS FlightSimulator and like to post on the Interwebs for others....


(Well, I found one for the MD-11, but the B757/767 is very similar). You have the keypad, the screenon the CDU. You type in, and 'line select' what you want, on the various menu pages, and press the "EXEC" button.

ADD: This guy in the above video could put a cadaver to sleep! Here, a real guy in a real B767-400 simulator:


Then, what you've programmed into the flight plan displays on the EHSI. It 'draws' a magenta line, you can now steer the airplane to your programmed destination with 'HDG SEL' (heading select) or you can engage 'LNAV' (Lateral Nav) and either hand-fly, or use the A/P.

Skip to about 3:50, because he is taking you through the complete start-up of a jet, including cockpit set-up, that isn't really relevant to the 9/11 hijackers. It does show, however, WHY they took over from an airplane already in flight!!

Around the seven-minute mark he's inputting the flight plan data...this is the same way you can change the flight plan, in the air. He's just doing it on the ground, before "takeoff".

My point is, the re-programming is dead easy, as you can see. "So easy, a Caveman can do it!!!"


edit: OOOPS...forgot to add link.

ALSO, try part #2 by the same guy...maybe he takes off by then!


[edit on 28 July 2009 by weedwhacker]

[edit on 28 July 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker



You would have us believe people that could not fly a prop plan could deftly fly jets.

ME and you disagree.

And for the record I am not twisting your words. You are the one that said

Sorry for 'trolling'....was that YOU accusing people who bring actual information to this thread? Or, if it was someone else, my apologies.

It was someone else. That is why I said you should pay more attention to what people post.

We disagree. About 911 and about who accuses who about what.

Pay more attention.

reply to post by weedwhacker

Not sure seagull can, but I can

No I can't, because it's outside my experiance, as I pointed out. I don't usually tell people how something works, or is done, when I don't know how myself...usually.

Now if you want to work in the seafood industry at any level, I'm your guy....

reply to post by titorite


All four hijackers had US issued licenses. Three had Commercials, one had a Private.

When I was instructing, before I got my Airline job, every now and then we'd get a guy in, wanting to rent, who had a license and couldn't fly worth a damn. Or, to be more specific, he was used to Pipers and just wasn't comfortable the first time in a Cessna. AND, since you brought it up, it is the ONLY instance that keeps getting attention, the one in Florida, about Hanjour.

Here's my take on it: He learned to fly, here. EVERYBODY was willing to take his money, coddle him along, KNOWING he was a "foreigner", and that he was likely not going to be flying in the USA, but back home. I'll bet some even laughed behind his back. His accent, poor English.

I don't know why he wanted to rent the 172 in Florida. Maybe he hadn't flown at all, for a while. He was there, they didn't have Pipers. The Warrior and the 172 feel very differently, especially to someone with only a few hundred hours. I'm betting he couldn't land the bloody thing, without pranging the nosewheel each time, and throw in a frustrated Flight Instructor with a bad attitude (speculation)....

BUT, of course, just 'cuz he couldn't land a 172 has no bearing AT ALL on steering a B757 through the sky. It just ain't that hard!! This does not diminish the skill sets needed to be a professional airline pilot, because we earn when it gets tough, not in cruise on a clear day in smooth air!!!

You'll agree that Ricky Martin, the singer, isn't an airline pilot, correct?


His first time! Sure, with some coaching. BUT that's what the hijackers did, and they got MORE time in simulators, because they had the money to spend for it.

reply to post by titorite

People don't talk like that. not even in shock.

People do, and say, strange things when they're subjected to incredible stress. I've not listened to every recording of the phone calls, but I venture to guess that many knew something was happening, outside the realm of even a hijacking...

...and if being on a hijacked airliner isn't stressful, my definition of stress is way off.

I've been subjected to stress and had to deliver information to someone, the Coast Guard in this instance, over the radio. I was told later, I was very, very formal, and I didn't use contractions of any sort. Very unlike my normal conversation style. Stress does strange things to people.

reply to post by weedwhacker


What do you do when you are working for an airline?

D.Duck

reply to post by titorite


Apparently you are ignorant of geography - among other things. How
do you find NYC?

NYC in case you flunked geography is on the coast where Hudson River
empties into Atlantic ocean

American 11 was hijacked just north of Albany NY. You simply turn south
and pick up Hudson River and follow it right to NYC. You have heard of the
Hudson River? It is very wide and deep enough for ocean going ships to
sail to Albany, 150 miles north of NYC

en.wikipedia.org...

United 175 was hijacked on Pennsylvania/New Jersey border about 75
miles west of NYC. Here you simply turn east, in direction of morning sun,
fly until reach coast, turn north and follow coast to NYC.

Right at southern tip of Manhattan was WTC - 2 of the largest buildings
in the world extending over 1300 ft (1/4 mile) into air.

Now I live about 15 miles west of NYC - I could see the WTC from my
neighborhood.

Visibility was perfect that day.

Here are flight paths of hijacked aircraft that day

lohud.com...

reply to post by thedman


Flight 11 never left the ground and was not scheduled to fly, therefor it never existed according to BTS.

D.Duck

Originally posted by D.Duck
reply to post by thedman

Flight 11 never left the ground and was not scheduled to fly, therefor it never existed according to BTS.

Here is the BTS data for American Airlines 11, 11 September 2001:

Summary Statistics

Flight Number


Airline: American Airlines (AA)
Flight Number: 0011
Time Period: September 11, 2001 to September 11, 2001

On-Time Flights:

NOTE: Late, cancelled and diverted flights are subtracted from total flights to determine on-time percent.
A complete listing of airline and airport abbreviations is available. Times are reported in local time using a 24 hour clock.

On September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight #11 and #77 and United Airlines #93 and #175 were hijacked by terrorists. Therefore, these flights are not included in the on-time summary statistics.

MY emphasis!

(tags)


[edit on 28 July 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Well, look for yourself www.serendipity.li... Flight 11 never left the gound.

D.Duck



[edit on 28-7-2009 by D.Duck]

Originally posted by D.Duck
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Well, look for yourself www.serendipity.li... Flight 11 never left the ground.

D.Duck

Sorry dubbel post



[edit on 28-7-2009 by D.Duck]

[edit on 28-7-2009 by D.Duck]

reply to post by D.Duck


serendipity?? Not very credible. But, anways...

Looky there, BOTH of the United flights have THEIR data!! Now, why do you suppose that is? Maybe because it's two different companies?

If you look at the Sched/Act departure times for BOS for American Airlines on the same day, you will see that ALL CANCELLED flights show 'zeroes' for the out times, and 'UNKNOW' for the 'N' numbers.

That makes sense, of course. Flights cancelled after the National Airspace System was shut down. BUT, just because AA elected to delete the flight 11 and 77 data (likely in deference to the victims' families) doesn't mean the flights didn't exist.

You know, perhaps few are aware, that Family Guy creator Seth MacFarlane was booked on American Airlines 11 that morning. Did you know that? He was hung over, and missed the flight. Look it up.

Nevermind, I did it for you:

Experience with September 11, 2001 attacks

On the morning of September 11, 2001, MacFarlane was scheduled to return to Los Angeles on American Airlines Flight 11 from Boston, Massachusetts, after delivering a keynote speech at his alma mater. Suffering from a hangover from the previous night's celebrations, and with an incorrect departure time (8:15 a.m. instead of 7:45 a.m.) from his travel agent, he arrived at Logan International Airport sometime around 7:30 and was unable to board the flight as the gates had been closed.

en.wikipedia.org...


eta: I found this, looking at some United data, from BOS that morning:

UA 09/11/2001 1947 N435UA IAD 08:45 00:00

SOURCE: Bureau of Transportation Statistics

So, a United flight 1947 to Dulles still shows in the system, with the Sched. Dep time, but there is no Actual out time. All hell was breaking loose about then, lots of confusion. They were cancelling left and right, missed one. LOOK through the data, you will see. Nothing is being hidden, it's just the nature of the airline business.



[edit on 28 July 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


haha, yea a lot of fake BS stories on 9/11 don't you think.

Have you checked the SSDI?

D.Duck

reply to post by D.Duck


Not sure what good that does. I put my father's name in, no record found.

Pretty darned sure he's dead. Died in LA. 2003. Buried in Gardena, CA. Pretty darned sure. Yup.

...yea a lot of fake BS stories on 9/11...

Yup. Like at 'serendipity'. Places like that. Lots of fake BS stories. Lots of intentional misinformation, too.

[edit on 28 July 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


I am not here to talk about your father, I don't care about your father.

I am here to talk about 9/11 and as you see your technics don't work on me so please stay on topic.

D.Duck

reply to post by D.Duck


You asked about the SSDI? Perhaps I misunderstood?

Is it an allegation that some of the victims from the hijacked airplanes aren't in the SSDI data? Is that going to be your claim?

I was using the example of someone I know who's dead just to illuminate the fallacy of using SSDI, that's all. IF that was your intention.

reply to post by weedwhacker


My claim is that Flight 11 never took off and never existed as a flight and that is a fact wether you like it or not.

D.Duck

reply to post by D.Duck


Here, read this:

ATC transcript AAL 11

posted by lpowell0627
reply to post by SPreston

 

Can you please tell me then, based on your theory of plane-swapping and such, where my two former co-workers, that were on-board the plane that crashed into the south (second) tower actually died?

That's what I can never figure out.

IF there were no hijackers and IF the 4 aircraft were swapped for aircraft fitted with remote piloting controls as seems the case; just use your imagination.

A bullet behind the ear and loading all victims on one aircraft and a burial at sea?

Unloading of passengers at a remote airfield or Air Force base and execution of non-participants in an empty hanger?

A new identity and Federal relocation for those willing passengers and crew?

Or a bunch of created passengers who did not really exist mixed with a few real passengers and crew. Hundreds of alleged family members did not show up at LAX and SFO looking for the alleged passengers from 4 flights, before both airports were evacuated and shutdown at noon EST.

Your two former co-workers are either dead or have been ordered not to contact you.

Flight 77 which disappeared up near Ohio was certainly replaced by another aircraft which flew Over the Naval Annex and North of the Citgo and did not crash into the Pentagon. An extremely detailed simulation with staged scripts and planted explosives and lying witnesses was initiated. Swapped aircraft?

The WTC fuel explosions seem much too large for ordinary passenger carrying 767s which had already burned up a good portion of their fuel loads. And how would partners of the alleged hijackers plant demolition explosives in the towers and WTC 7? Swapped aircraft?

A very detailed faking of Flight 93 crash site, with the alleged Flight 93 aircraft transponder turned back on at 8200 feet and 13 miles away to the southeast two minutes after the official crash time. Swapped aircraft?

Not a difficult question to answer IF 9-11 was an inside job. Corrupt governments, which we most definitely have here in the US murder people by the millions. What are a few hundred more when the profits are in the trillions of dollars?

You do not believe that the sick WTC 1st responders with funds and care being withheld from them, are being deliberately murdered by their own corrupt government? You do not believe that the abandoned MIAs and POWs of the VietNam War were deliberately murdered by their own corrupt government? You do not believe that the US soldiers in Iraq trapped in a nuclear wasteland created by tens of thousands of pulverized depleted uranium shells, are being deliberately murdered by their own corrupt government?

Corrupt governments never have any difficulty getting rid of murdered victims when they control the justice departments do they?


[edit on 7/28/09 by SPreston]