Are atheists more intelligent than religious believers? Study suggests such a correlation

i want to cancel my account here.

so my last message to atheism.

Beliefs are the (human) building block
not atoms or smaller things
why ?

whatever you belief, alone or by majority,
it is still a belief

what makes you think it is to be true or false
that is also a belief

belief is the basic, you can not know anything else then this.
forget everything you ever learned and go to what you can know.

So all science is based on observation,
which is time dependent.

Observation makes the visions of the mentally 'diseased' and
the viewing of aliens the same thing as all the science beliefs.
They are equal in knowing nothing but they do sense, not proof but sensing.

This is the start, from here you start, and this is where the paradox grows from.

The paradox will make everything in logic one,
will make that one being not source but personal
and a personal God will cancel paradox and be free
what is, knows what it is.

This was everything i have to say.
Take care, grow truth and heart.
Grow One
jonathan.


[edit on 14-8-2009 by pasttheclouds]

Originally posted by pasttheclouds

God is free from logic,
but this is logic,
that is the thing about logic,
logic is the truth,
and logic in this world frees god of logic...
but it is still logic.

Just a guess, but are you Russian?

This sounds very Russian.

reply to post by badmedia

Okay, he's an astrophysicist and he's saying some of the same things you are. Do you mind if I put some black pepper sauce on this hat?

His ideas are hardly scientific, though. He's just a God of the Gaps believer who has chosen some rather big gaps.

I am an Athiest.

In fact, we're all Athiests about most Gods.
But, some Athiests just go one god further.

Thing is I feel I've just had an awakening of consciousness.
Seems that this has been labeled as being "more intelligent".

Anyway,
My main point I want to make is this: there's a different between religion and spirituallity.

I think this is crucial! I really think people need to separate the two.

The word religion is usually correlated with an organized group of people who do strange things on Sunday.

I find that Athiests are actually surprisingly spiritual. More in touch with the idea of oneness and such.
And being amazed with what they see around them.

The issues with these religious Characters like "God" (Yahweh/ personal God), Allah, or Vishnu is that they are on the same plane of validity as The Flying Spaghetti monster.

I mean I could say there's a Flying Teapot up in space...you cannot really prove it or disprove it. But, the probability is probably low.
It all seems imaginary.

It could be anything.

And really at the end of the day what do we know??

I am not going to sit here and say "Yes, there's a God."
Cause I DON'T KNOW.
I also don't know the origins or the universe and what happens after death.
There's so much that's the unknown.

I am learning quite a bit from this site...and I feel we're like the "babies" in the universe and we have a lot of growing to do.

I think becoming an Athiest is a step, but once you take the step back realize the contradictions and just how silly religions can be...you also learn that there are possibly half truths thrown in there.

There is something about us that seems to pass any scientific explanation.
Now, we enter into spirituality. Becoming in tuned with ones self and creating your own life.

Still, I don't know. I really don't.

reply to post by Before2017Victor

My main point I want to make is this: there's a different between religion and spirituallity. I think this is crucial! I really think people need to separate the two.

Welcome to ATS. You'll find this trope is very popular with our members and is frequently repeated, especially on threads in this forum.

In my view, a 'spiritual' person is a person who cherishes religious feelings but is disinclined to accept the strictures of institutionalized religion.

Do you think 'spiritual people' are more intelligent than religious people?

[edit on 15/8/09 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Astyanax
Do you think 'spiritual people' are more intelligent than religious people?
[edit on 15/8/09 by Astyanax]

That's hard for me to say.

How does one measure intelligence?

I think 'spiritual people' have a higher awakening of consciousness.
I also think more people have the capacity to do so, but refuse.


I find in religion...there is some truth. Gratitude is a common theme. Having good intentions seem to ring true.
To me the idea of prayer is creating your own life...it's the law of attraction at work. Thing is, YOU did the work not some deity out there.

I am sure we have more power than we realize.
Or let me rephrase it as saying 'What God? You're God'.

That may confuse some people. I am saying the power is in each of us.
I really believe reality is an illusion.
You're the driver.

Religions were/are on to something, but they are way off track now.
There are lots of things I find in today's world that have half truths, but they are fogged up with wanting 'Power' and 'Money'.
Which probably all derive from fear.

Could this be our "flight or fight response"? We're still quite a primitive species.

I wish I knew where the answers were. It seems you start by looking within.

I have a hard time equating all of this with intelligence.
Someone with a high IQ may not be able to be spiritual perhaps the same as someone who's mentally handicapped.

I have no proof of these claims.

I do know that 'Mensa' (organization of intelligent people) had released a study saying how Yes, indeed Athiests are more intelligent.
I read this in 'The God Delusion'.

I find though on rare occasions that while I am more at peace as an Athiest, I am also frightened of 'faith' and 'belief' because I then become hypocritical.

"Where's the evidence?" I ask myself. I have non. All I can go by is feelings.

There's still fear of the unknown. Almost a fear of not knowing.
Uncertainty.

Interesting topic non the less.

reply to post by Before2017Victor

I think 'spiritual people' have a higher awakening of consciousness.
I also think more people have the capacity to do so, but refuse.

I think 'spiritual people' think they have a higher awakening of consciousness.

Originally posted by Welfhard

I think 'spiritual people' think they have a higher awakening of consciousness.

Well, I think that you think that I think 'spiritual people' think they have a higher awakening of consciousness.




Actually, on a serious note, I didn't mean the word 'higher' to be placed in there. I should have said "Athiests have had AN awakening of consciousness".

Is that better?

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Before2017Victor]

I'm sorry but the study is very flawed and confuses athiests and agnostics. Athiests still have a dogma, they BELIEVE that god does not exist. Since one cannot prove a negative it is a belief without proof. i.e. a dogma.

reply to post by Before2017Victor

Well, I think that you think that I think 'spiritual people' think they have a higher awakening of consciousness.

I think you may be right.

Actually, on a serious note, I didn't mean the word 'higher' to be placed in there. I should have said "Athiests have had AN awakening of consciousness".p

"Atheists"

Can you explain what you mean by awakening of consciousness for me, I'm a bit puzzled. Most of the time when people say 'consciousness', I haven't a clue precisely what they mean because it is a truly ill-defined word, the nature of which is barely understood.

^ Yes, I will clear this up for you. (sorry for the misspelling of Atheists )

Actually consciousness may not be the right word either.
(Damn I hate how I feel trapped in language sometimes)

What I am trying to say is that Atheists have an awakening of "Awareness".

See, now, as an Atheist (I am not too sure how I feel about the labeling, but anyway..)I realize there are many perspectives.

Atheism to me is not a belief. It's a firm stance that "God" (specifically the 'personal God') is just as valid as saying you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Some of this is defendant on how you define these words.

"God" in an Einsteinian sense can mean something quite different.

If you wish to read more on what I am talking about it's in 'The GOD Delusion: by Richard Dawkins". He makes some very great points in it.

Now, that I've taken a step back from primitive thought.

I can now try to look at other things. And I have a feeling it starts by looking within, loving, and having good intentions.


Make more sense now?

It's like taking your 'blinders' off. Now, I SEE! There's so much out there...so many paths to take...so many opportunities...so many possibilities.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Before2017Victor]

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Before2017Victor]

reply to post by Before2017Victor

Sure. People who deconvert from religion like Christianity go on a kind of quest of understanding into conceptual things like morals and ethics. Where do they come from without a higher power?

I have had some thoughts.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

^ I dislike the idea that you think I am Selfish or something like that.
I really do not like the idea of assumptions/judgment.

Didn't seem very Christian-like is it?
I am just saying (not in a belittling way).

Sure, it's one thing to do nice things for others, but imposing that I am Selfish or w/e doesn't seem fair to me.
Do you think I need help/guidance or something?

I am not dismissing the idea of a higher power. What I am saying is it could be anything.

I am only stating what I know so far.
And a lot of what we feel and think sometimes can be many things. Like some claim that Love is God, but which God? And in which sense...Einsteinian/pantheist/deist/theist????
Can he/she/it hear all prayers spontaneously?
Etc.
If you're thinking of God as being the creator...it causes more questions than answers.
Like the idea of the "Lazy God". If we talk about evolution it seems "God" is left with little to do, but to 'plant the seed' (deist)...and really we just don't know.

It's all very confusing. There's the free-will thing, bad things happen....and I get trapped in paradoxes and contradictions when I try to believe in a "Personal God"/"God" as I used to.
Even then I never had answers.

I am trying to just be content with being. Embrace the unknown.
No assumptions. No Judgment. Just peace is the aim.


But, even still the way I see it is, YES, you can very much believe what you want. And I am trying to learn to accept this of people.

But, you must be aware of the infinite possibilities.
Simply, as a primitive species, we just do not know the origins or the universe/what happens before or after death/ or our place in the universe
...yet.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Before2017Victor]

reply to post by Before2017Victor

I dislike the idea that you think I am Selfish or something like that.

Not so much. Part of the point is that selfishness and selflessness aren't dichotomies and that in the interest of self, morals and cooperative codes arise.

One of the issues I was trying to help people avoid, which you walked strait into was that it's not a bad thing.

What are you saying exactly?

And how is this relevant to the topic?

I feel you're just spinning around in circles here...when we'll come back to the same conclusion that we really honestly don't know.


[edit on 15-8-2009 by Before2017Victor]

reply to post by Before2017Victor


I was looking at the origin of morals, something every deconvertee will do.


You know the reason we don't know is that there is no answer.

Originally posted by jprophet420
I'm sorry but the study is very flawed and confuses athiests and agnostics. Athiests still have a dogma, they BELIEVE that god does not exist. Since one cannot prove a negative it is a belief without proof. i.e. a dogma.

There's a difference between "not believing" and "believing not".

If what you said were true, EVERYONE would be dogmatic simply for not having a belief in Zeus, or Thor, or leprechauns.

It's funny that people make claims about what atheism is, and how one needs faith to be an atheist, and yet these same people are 'a-zeusians', 'a-pinkunicornians', and 'a-santaclausians'...
With all those entities, I suppose not holding a belief in them is also represented by faith and dogma?

Ridiculous.

reply to post by TruthParadox

This is why atheism produces a lot of being "anti-" something or other rather than visionary solutions. A-theism is a by-product of theism, its antithesis. It would not exist without theism. Ive often heard atheists say that "every child is born an atheist". As atheism is a clearly defined position which has spawned hundreds of books, lectures, political-systems and activism this cannot be true. A child is born without any position whatsoever. If anything, the new born child is an agnostic - but even that would be one label too many.

This sums up the counterargument nicely.
SOURCE:Challenge Match: Republican08 vs Skyfloating: "Atheism vs. Theism"

Which is funny how a so called lack can be logically argued to be a lack when it has spawned hundreds of books etc.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
This sums up the counterargument nicely.
SOURCE:Challenge Match: Republican08 vs Skyfloating: "Atheism vs. Theism"

Which is funny how a so called lack can be logically argued to be a lack when it has spawned hundreds of books etc.

Again with your strawman argument.
I never said all atheism is a lack of belief.
I'm saying an atheist is not required to hold such a stance.
We are only required to feel as you feel about Zeus or Thor - not believe.
You can not believe AND believe not - this is atheism.
Or you can simply not believe - this is also atheism.

What you're saying is similar to me finding books which say "Zeus DOES NOT Exist!!" and say "Hey, watcher-in-the-shadows, you don't believe in zeus right? You must be the same as this other guy! You're dogmatic!"

Surely you see how silly that argument is...

[edit on 15-8-2009 by TruthParadox]

reply to post by TruthParadox

Contradiction cha cha cha.

I never said all atheism is a lack of belief.

Allow me to quote:

The word atheist means lacking a belief in God.

SOURCE:www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=TruthParadox