Stop playing the "Elite" card

Isnt it time we stop blaming the ,elite, the government and MSM for every single issue that is wrong with America? I fully understand the history behind government and corruption but is that excuse enough to blame them for the choices we made? As much as I hated Bush and his administration for the disasterous policies they put upon this nation I understood that idiot wouldnt be there if folks had not voted him in. "Oh its the media that chose him", oh really? So then at the day maybe folk should stop leaving the media to make their decisions for them?

I was talking to this Vietnam vet on saturday and we were discussing universal healthcare. He was, to my surprise, a staunch support of socialized healthcare; being an older individual who was raised around a conservative environment , but ofcourse the conversation went on beyond that discussion. Another individual at the party joined in and told us "it was all a sham, the corporations choose all these candidates, the media ignores the other choices. The Vietnam vet agreed and it soon became a matter of "the government and corporations putting these candidates into office". I must say I felt more as though I was at an ATS NWO gathering.

Now there were afew points I agreed with the vet and the other individual in the conversation. True, the media outlets tend to be bias to one and candidate or ideology, and true, big business constantly hits us with prime time ads promoting that candidate or policy before we even make the choices. That being said, at the end of the day it comes down to our choice, our votes. The government, the corporations, they can flow as much money as they can into certain candidates, but at the end of the day it comes down to our vote. Does it solve the situation when you make excuses for somebodies choice based of poor information they chose to take in? When I raised this fact the individual, the Nam' vet, told me that the education system is partly to blame. But hold on, the United states is the most information and education accessable country in the world. There are tonnes of information out there for individuals to just take a minute to look at. Isnt it time the people stop depending on Fox news, MSNBC, ABC and other media outlets? Maybe these entities.... corporations, media outlets and even the government itself, maybe they are able to exploit the decisions of the people because the people allow them to do so.

Do we solve the issue by making excuses for somebody elses poor choice? Or do we hold that individual accountable to getting him or herself informed better? Im sure most of you were aware at how much money Ron Paul made last year during the campaign. The individuals behind Ron Paul were energized by the grassroots movement to promote the guy. Most of these individuals were well aware of their choices and they made it. I dont agree with Paul at all over his policies, and Iv found myself in a number of arguments with Paulers, however the campaign itself behind Paul was brought up by mostly individuals who were aware of the choices out there, and who chose to inform themselves.

There are over 20 other political parties out there to choose from. There were were over 20 candidates over the 2008 elections. Its time people take responsibility for their ability to inform themselves instead of blaming it on other entities. Its time individuals stop making excuses for those who choose to make those poort decisions. I mean heck after the McCain lost and most conservatives were angry, frustrated, all this talk came about starting a new conservative party. Why waste your time when there are over 10 other conservative parties? The boston tea party, the constitutionalist party, the libertarian party. There were plenty of other choices, why cant people just get on with it? Your personal negativity about who gets most attention on TV should not be an excuse to use you democratic right to voice your opinions and issues.

During 2007 Hillary was already the assumed nominee but I stuck to Obama and continued to support him despite assumptions made by the pundits, the predictions and the money that poured into the Hillary campaign. Paulers continued to support Ron Paul despite Fox news not giving him an equal shot. Heck the supporters behind the third parties didnt change one bit by what the media outlets were doing. Its time other individuals do so as well, make decisions by themselves instead of excuses.

I think by far the worst attitude here is "dont waste your vote, the big boys already bought the president". You mean dont vote? You mean the democratic system is corrupt, your vote doesnt count? Oh yes yes yes but your candidate didnt get in so ofcourse its some major conspiracy right? My question is why the heck do you continue to play the game of politics then? The individuals who continue to sound like broken records for some odd reason are still present in the argument of politics. Is this an attention gig for you or something?

All the money in the world will not change the democratic movement of the people. And even at that, there must be an understanding that it didnt matter if joe beer was picked off the street and put into the presidency, the same old conspiracies and "puppet talk" will continue. The media will always be on the lookout for the most popular individual out there. The corporations will always put their money where their mouths are. But your vote, your choice, doesnt always have to follow that same path. Its time people take responsibility for their own choices, its time individuals stop making excuses for the choices of others. As bad as the 'elite", "government" "corporations" and the media can be, we have the ability to inform ourselves. If you willfully choose not the excise your given right to vote and take advantage of the democratic system you have no business complaining who ends up being in.

If you are going to constantly refer to the "elites" and the "MSM" at every excuse to why certain individuals policies get through, or why people make the decisions they do, it do us more use if you left the conversation to some of us who give a damn about our choices out there.

[edit on 27-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Well to me the elite do make the decisions. Its like Hollywood the more money and power you have the more likely you will be heard and get your way. I voted and I am always trying to let my voice be heard but I am just some puny tax paying citizen and they really dont seen to care about anyone but themselves and their bank accounts getting fatter. If it doesnt directly affect them they honestly dont seem to give a crap..The normal average citizen doesnt really seem to have any say in anything that goes on. I personally dont watch MSM, I read online about certain topics. The MSM just irritates me and honestly makes me want to yell at the screen. I do agree more people should speak up but I personally feel they dont want to because they never get heard and will just be dismissed and many times that is the case. Its like talking to a brick wall honestly. Its always been more money = more power since the beginning of time IMO. The Elite do run things and they always have. I would like it not to be that way but I cant do it all by myself, God knows I have tried.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Southern Guardian, I usually disagree with you on just about everything that is discussed. No harm, no foul.
But I had to S&F this post. I agree.

When you THINK you have no control, you've lost it.

Nice job.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Southern Guardian, I usually disagree with you on just about everything that is discussed. No harm, no foul.
But I had to S&F this post. I agree.

When you THINK you have no control, you've lost it.

Nice job.

Im glad you agree.

I aint denying there are forces out there that corrupt, However we have the choice at the end of the day. This negativity does no good but to allow those entities to have more control over us. If you think you have no vote, then you dont have a vote. Sometimes we create our own enemy.

SG

reply to post by Southern Guardian



Too true. If we really had absolutely no control, then why worry about the 2010 elections. Why worry about what goes on in DC now? That kind of mind-set would just make someone curl up and die.

For that matter, if we really had no control, why bother with ATS?
They greys are going to win. . .
The reptiles are going to win. . . .
The people who planned 9/11 are going to win. . . .
The NWO is going to win. . . . .
Obama is going to win. . . (sorry, had to slip that one in )

The problem is two fold:

It's the Government/Media/corporations/etc. taking advantage and consciously deciding to manipulate the unthinking masses.

Some people just HONESTLY don't know how to think for themselves on these issues because someone (starting most likely with their parents) has ALWAYS told them how they should feel about a particular matter. Eventually, thinking for themselves and trying to gain additional knowledge on matters they think is important just becomes too much of an effort. They let government/media/corporations make those decisions for them.

The Government/media/corporations eventually realised this and took advantage. Instead of being responsible to the people, they soon realized they can get the people to go against/with ANYTHING they wanted because they didn't want to think about it themselves.

They had too much other stuff to worry about in their own worlds. Worlds they could actually relate to. Most people can't relate to loss of freedoms, war consequences, utter poverty, having the system fail them, etc. What they CAN relate to is getting up, going to work, taking care of kids and buying necessities/commodities. The daily grind. Anything other than that and they just take someone else's word for it because they can't relate and don't have time to actually think things through.

The government/media/corporations know this.

"Don't fret precious I'm here
Step away from the window
Go back to sleep"

reply to post by nunya13



Doesn't that just illustrate that we have the ability to stop them? I meant what I said earlier about the idea of loss of control, means giving it away. SG is right about this.

Sun Tsu said it best, Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?

Originally posted by nunya13
Some people just HONESTLY don't know how to think for themselves on these issues because someone (starting most likely with their parents) has ALWAYS told them how they should feel about a particular matter.

Is that excuse enough? If you live your life by what Fox news or MSNBC tells you to believe, is that the fault of the media stations or are by all rights private entities serving their own purpose, or is it the fault of the viewer not doing the research themselves? We have internet connection and accessability more than any other country. There our community schools, elections centers that educate you about your choices of candidates. Individuals, americans, have access to these places, have access to that knowledge and yet they choose to sit and take in what the media or corporations tell them to take. Then, when sh*t hits the fan, who do they blame? who comes out and makes excuses for them? "oh its the elitists!"

People have the power of choice in this country. What money pumps through a media company shouldnt be reason enough not to use your constitutional right to vote on your personal issues. By blaming some other influences in your own personal faulty decisions only helps those entities out there to further take advantage. You allow those elites, the corporations, the media to influence you by saying "my voice doesnt count".

We have the ability. When we choose not to use our own ability of choice we allow those to take advantage of us. When we make excuses after they have taken advantage of us, after they have mislead us, we only help them by making them appear more influencial than they really are.

The american people have the ability to decide, its time they use that ability instead of spending their time listening to other groups, entities and making excuses.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


In case you didn't get the memo... they have it all sewn up at the moment, they make the rules, they play the people and suck them dry from two sides. It doesn't matter how many political parties there are, the Democrats and Republicans have the election laws written so that they have an incredible advantage.

Yes, it is the 'elite' that is the problem. Think they care one whit about you or anyone else beyond what they can draw out of you? It's all a sham, it's all rigged, and you can mark my words when the people have had enough you won't be able to find one banker, politician, lawyer, etc... They will either be in hiding, dead, or in the case of the smart ones... with the people.

reply to post by SpacePunk

Bullpoop.

If I am the last angry man left, then so be it. If you think for an instant that I'm gonna roll over for them, well, they have another thing comming.

Originally posted by SpacePunk
In case you didn't get the memo... they have it all sewn up at the moment, they make the rules,

Right, and I suppose they fabricated the 120 million odd voters for McCain and Obama, or was that the choice of individuals who voted regardless of who was pumping money where? Your again making excuses for the choices of other individuals. Are you not allowing those entities to dictate who gets into the presidency by claiming their votes are pointless? Its people who say things like that who make it possible for those groups to control.

We have choice, and we should use it. Nobody is stopping you from voting third party, you are only stopping yourself by saying "its pointless". Its your right to vote, you right to opinion regardless of which way the tide swings in the elections. It comes down to your choice.

The Elite can't do anything without the support of the people who sing their praises and put their puppets into office.

Give me a paper ballot and regular citizens that count the votes.
Have a "vote count duty" sort of like "jury duty", random drawing from your local precinct. Then I will be at the voting booth again.

The bankers own the computer ballots, until that's changed, your vote doesn't mean diddly squat. Not that paper ballots can't be miscounted or tampered with, but they are much harder to mess with.

I saw a hearing in one video, where a guy testified to there being computer programs installed in these computerized voting machines that can make any looser a winner, by the push of a button.... My limited pc knowledge tells me that this is fact and just basic common sense, if you ever delved into any kind of programming.





[edit on 26-7-2009 by MrMojo1971]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Hey, I vote third party. Untill last year I was a 'card carrying' member of a third party. People vote for McCain/Obama because the MSM doesn't let them know they have another choice. Only the Democrat/Republican party gets air time where people 'know' who to vote for. They control the horizontal, and they control the verticle.

Untill the election laws are applied in a fair and equal manner across all parties, the Democrat/Republican sham will keep dominating the playing field.

Wow. Southern Guardian. I think you hit many points on the head quite nicely there.

I think much of the reason why we feel we can do nothing is because the system keeps continuing each election cycle- we want change- yet we get nothing out of it. For instance, during the 2008 election campaign Barack Obama was presented to us as the media's choice for candidate. A lot of people at ATS loved him during the time of the election season. You were there. And so was I. I even was one of his staunch defenders at the time. If I really knew what he would have done- or- what his true agenda was- I probably wouldn't have voted for him knowing that he would continue this unsustainable deficit spending, and, this unsustainable foreign policy.

I think that much of it comes down to the fact that we feel that the system never changes so that we have no choice. Many other voters are still stuck in the Democrat Republican mode. They feel that they can only vote for two parties and that none of the other parties will gain traction so they just keep voting for the parties that they feel good about voting for.

I also think that it's a lack of education of the public's knowledge and not enough thinking for themselves. Lots of people are apathetic towards politics and want to influence the public by putting their prejudices on the masses when they go in the voting poll. I wanted to vote for Barack Obama because I wanted to get the Christian Right upset, and, I wanted to deal with various issues that I felt were important to me. Little did I know how the people who he would appoint have an effect on us all, or, that a lot of the Bush stuff would still go there, I voted for him because of his promise of transparency and stuff. I think that's another problem- that- we don't analyze the candidate's position before we vote for them and that's a problem.

I think a lot of the problem is apathy. People are too apathetic about what's going on. America doesn't really care. I think much of the problem- as you said- can be blamed on us for not having taken action, and, our apathy for thinking they're elites so we can't do anything about what they're doing.

I totally agree with you Southern Guardian though. We can do more. You get a S&F from me.. We sometimes forget how many choices we really have. Much of it is our fault- but it's not really all our fault- we were conditioned into thinking this way since we entered societal life. This is what we've seen and what we've accept as normal. I think that perception needs to change. I think it's the perception that is the key problem with people.

If you're interested I just made another topic just like this one on another forum I go to: www.politicalcrossfire.com...

[edit on 27-7-2009 by Frankidealist35]

[edit on 27-7-2009 by Frankidealist35]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Those who are not affected do not care, period. That is how America has become and is the after effect we have left on our own accord so Ill give you that.

Sorry bud, the simple fact is that we have been removed of our choices because the goverment can't be bothered to leave important choices up to the radical domestic terrorist majority that now infects America.

Save your propagand for Demo / Rebo blog 2009 and realize that the majority of people that dwell in this board have already been informed and woken from there dreamless sleep. You may have better luck following Obamas twitter?

Don't mean to come across like an ass, just saying that the choice is really not in the hands of the every day American making 40k a year, it's just not.



[edit on 27-7-2009 by Helious]

Originally posted by Helious
Sorry bud, the simple fact is that we have been removed of our choices because the goverment can't be bothered to leave important choices up to the radical domestic terrorist majority that now infects America.

Gee, and I wonder how that radical domestic terrorist majority got in? I voted ofcourse for that majority because I have a different opinion to you, I dont think they are a radical domestic terrorist majority and I still used my given right to vote on the issues I felt was important. You only do yourself a disservice when you throw that opportunity to vote away. Heck I should be happy individuals like you feel like its know use, I mean after all the individuals I supported are the majority? If the otherside feel its pointless, heck more of chance for Obama to stay in power for the next 8years (which Im banking on). That being said though, whether your left or right wing, any excuse for not voting on the candidates you believe suit your issues, this excuse that the media is "unfair" and corrupt so i cant vote "for who I want", to me that sounds like somebody disabling themselves from making that choice, by using their rights to vote.

If you make the choice not to vote the candidate you want come election time whos fault is it? Blame the media? Why? All do respect but cable media is part of the private sector. They decide what gets them the most bucks, the most attention. In a perfect world we could argue they are obligated to "be fair" in our view, but this isnt perfect world, and they are not obligated to be "fair". You only have yourself to blame for allowing them to make those decisions for you. Blaming the media over the decision making of a group is a cop out in my opinion. Its either to play down the fact that candidate won and your lost, or its a matter of making the excuse for people who made their own decisions to vote. When Bush won back in 2004, the negative coverage over Kerry on swift vote vets got to me, but when he got in I didnt blame media, I didnt blame the corporations. However, I did understand that however bad this mans prior presidency was, the people voted him in. That was their choice, at the end of the day, they were behind those poll booths voting, not the media outlets, not the corporations.

Your choices have not been removed. You just think your choices are based on what the pundits say. You allow your choice to be swayed by whats on the media, or who gets paid the most.

Cut the excuses. There are options out there, you have the choice the vote, you have the right to argue your issues. Allowing this negativity to reign over your decision aint the doing of the corporations, the media or the elite, its purely your doing.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

Your argument might make sense if it weren't for the fact that votes most likely don't get counted anymore...

Put simply your assuming that the reasons why we're going down hill is because people don't educate themselves and then vote. However I myself could pull some random number out of my rear end and say that Candidate X has just won by Y number of votes thereby gaining them Z number of district votes.

Essentially to me what your saying makes no sense, You say don't blame the elite and don't blame the MSM, however do you really think that vote numbers cant be completely made up? Do you know exactly how many people in a district or even a small town voted to be able to gauge that off of? I sure don't.

And for myself, I don't vote anymore because I don't think we pick anything in this country anymore, you said why do people who argue we have no choice continue to talk and debate about politics and continue to vote? you said that people that feel this way have already lost because they think they have, but your wrong completely wrong the reason people like myself continue to talk and debate politics, and others continue to vote even knowing it doesn't matter is because they have hope they haven't curled up and died like someone else had said They keep doing those things because sometimes you have to do the only thing you know how to do at that point.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Very good my friend, I usually dont agree with you either, but what you say is truth, and its truth in its most simple form.

People can say all they want that the elitist take over and our vote doesnt count. Fine if you believe that, and even if it IS true, so what?

Im still going to exercise my RIGHT to vote, they havent taken away that. Lets not forget that the only reason that the PTB has gotten where it has today is because we VOTED them there.

They would have not gotten there at all if it were not for people putting them in power in the first place, and this has gone on for decades and decades, and NOW, because people have been voting PARTY lines instead of whats right, this is the mess we are left with.

If you keep giving people power over and over, soon you have none left for yourself, and NO ONE but yourselves to blame.

Only the people can change what goes on in America.

Its our fault , be it bigoted , biased, or ignorance that we are in the position we are in. Toughen up America, get some grit in you, and turn it around.

I would hate for my grandfather to see the bunch of complaining , winning wussies we have become.

Also right on your part Southern Guardian........if you DONT vote, or DIDNT vote, well youre just as much to blame, but you dont get the luxury to complain if you didnt get off your butt to try and do something.

Educate yourself, read, and dont step in the B. S

S and F for you

The only reason that ANYONE has a chance to know what is actually going on these days is because of the Internet.

Without it - we would only have the MSM - and it is pure lies. How can anyone make informed choices when all they have to work with is lies?

The system of brainwashing is what has destroyed democracy - brainwashing instigated by the few, for the many.

It is NOT the fault of the people - those who started this did so from a postion of wealth and power - and control over information.

The internet is the only way they can be destroyed - because people are actually learning who the real enemy is.