The Dark Side of "Conspiracy Theory"

Originally posted by Frith


Again you're just trying to troll the readership here.

The only other question I have is that I just don't know why you bothered to become a moderator here.

You dont think there is a dark side to conspiracy-theory?

Originally posted by jkrog08
[ it has ENTERTAINMENT VALUE. This is the sad truth and more real cases need to be presented in manners not concerned with excess fame, money, etc. Of course I am applying your statement to ufology but you could apply this to anything really.

Yeah...we are both guilty of considering the entertainment-value of threads we make. Often, in order to get an important message across, some entertainment needs to be added. Otherwise nobody of short-attention-span cares to read. But if thats overdone, if entertainment becomes more important than truth, things get distorted.

Originally posted by Jezus
Isn't the main stream media more dangerous because it is just as false and unquestioned by the majority?

Modern alternative media and mainstream media are very similar in that they both thrive upon shock-value and sales (or internet-clicks), catering to a bored populace that craves an adrenalin-rush more than information with which one can actually go out and do something.

reply to post by Skyfloating


1. Even if you are a disinfo agent, we are already misinformed by many articles in the mainstream and independent news and blogs.

2. Enough evidence shows that you are better off trusting David Icke and Alex Jones than the mainstream news for 9/11 and the Swine Flu.

3. The Swine Flu is overblown in the mainstream media and it is the CTs who are trying to make it sound less bad

4. Don't trust Sorcha Faal, who tells lies in articles.

5. History shows what the governments have done before, so why shouldn't it happen again? Should I now not trust Jim Marrs either?

6. The Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Bildergberg Group, G30, Federal Reserve, Bank of England and so on really exist, and are not just sitting there thinking about the best life for the people on Earth

7. The world of finance is in fact corrupt, e.g. AIG just to mention one, Geithner and the AIG chairman are members of G30 for a start, so how did they handle the AIG bonuses?

8. Anyone ever heard of Carlyle?

9. Anyone ever seen what's going on in Pipelinistan, and wondering how that related to the wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and eventually Iran?

The mainstream news doesn't mention much of these or anything at all, but they are in fact happening. So who do you want to trust the most?

Originally posted by Frith

Had Skyfloating typed that false information is the "original seed" of some and not all problems I couldn't say much about it. However he did not. And you're trying to tell me its the cause of most of mankind's problems. You're providing no examples. Just like Skyfloating.

The "original seed" of some (not all) of man's problems are basic mindsets of desire like want, desperation, and greed. These mindsets can manifest themselves externally as a lie and turn into something else, but conspiracy theories are not the "original seed" of all or many of mankind's problems.

What Skyfloating is doing is stoking the fires here trying to throw an apparently baseless opinion out here knowing the type of reaction it would get. And he's gotten you and many others to agree to it without so much as single shred of evidence for his beliefs.

I acknowledge that there is a bright side to conspiracy-awareness. Would I otherwise be concerned about the subject?

Some of the evidence of a darker side is in the fruits. Hitler was a paranoiad conspiracy-theorist. So was Stalin. Look at history and check out the fruits of some of the conspiracy-theories out there. Millions of Deaths.



[edit on 26-7-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Sirius20
All kidding aside, I think you're right about a lot of your information. I have only been researching this stuff for a short time, though, and I know I still have a long way to go, but I still feel myself as a pretty logical person and I'm open minded. I look at all sides of a story before I make a decision on what I feel is true or not. It's kind of funny too, since I've been researching conspiracy theories trying to find the truth, I think I've become more confused than before I started. It seems that every other day I'm finding something that shatters my belief system because I can stop believing in something and admit that I'm wrong if more viable information comes along to the contrary. I started out with infowars and became hooked on that website and actually suffered from some of the symptoms that you had in your OP. I was paranoid, thought I was somehow more informed than others and laughed at the "sheeple", and gullible (which I'll admit I still am with a lot of stuff.) After going on that website though for a few months I realized how I turned into a different type of sheep, no different than the ones that the Jones' people criticize for watching the MSM. I was regurgitating the same exact information that I was getting almost verbatim and one day I realized that almost all of the comments on the articles there were doing the same thing along with people on youtube doing it. The amount of hatred, racism, and paranoia on there was enough to make my head spin once I got out of the spell I was in and if you even criticize him or any of the stories, you're automatically deemed a government shill or disinformation agent or troll. There are no reasonable arguments that actually take place on there it's just mass hysteria.

Awesome post.

People are introduced to conspiracy-theory with the question:

What if everything you think you know is wrong?

Unfortunately, the forget to re-ask themselves this question years later.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Hence the move to shut down/regulate the web. Im sure I dont have to link Jay Rockefeller. It is true that with each passing day more are exposed to the 30% truth that does exist on the web, which is why elites like Jay are so mad.

In the real world, the elites, like elites of the past, are not all powerful. Just as a master chess player blunders, so do they, and the internet it seems, is a *major* blunder. Instead of the cataloging system I'm sure they envisioned, they let loose the printing press V.2, which enables us to sit here and have this discussion about its merits and the info it brodcasts. Even if the majority of it is bunk, the fraction of it which is true obviously bothers them enough to make moves to shut it down.

The fact that the net threatens them so demonstrates its effectiveness in the 'infowar'. (as some have named it) It shows that a good % of the info is not pure bunk, that not all of us are nuts and its worth the intelligence apperatus's billions that are spent to win our 'hearts and minds'. It shows the counterswing against the elites move to centralize all media and opinion. 'Conspiracy Theorists', for all their nuttiness, represent the last bastion of truthtelling in an otherwise decietfull world.

Without 'us' (as were all here to question mainstream belief, otherwise we wouldnt be here), the official story of 9-11 would never be questioned, neither would the motivation for going into Iraq. Without the CTs, the world would still believe the Gulf Of Tonkin myth and would still buy the nonsense of central banks. Without those who would question the accepted truth, however flawed and misguided their methods are, our world would be complete puddy in the hands of 'histories actors' who would never be opposed by crazy folk like us, no matter how crazy we are or might appear to be.

Everything human has a +/-, but in the grand scheme, those of us who ask questions and refuse to be spoonfed info are the vanguard of truthfulness and liberty in an otherwise BS paradigm.

I share many of the sentiments from the original post.
Having watched a program about 7/7 where something like 50% of Muslims believed that this was a conspiracy by Mossad/MI5 (please insert whoever).

Key evidence such as two of the conspirators who had put their own film together to show that they ere going to put the atrocity together was simply ignored.

i hate the whole concept of NWO, they invent a conspiracy, then whatever group they hate, they add it to it.
So, freemasons (the very same people who drafted 2 constitutions, the french and the american, to follow freedom, equality, sovereignity, freedom of belief etc. a feature lacking back then, and now, within society), mr CT hates tehm, what he does is he adds them, and uses the freemason symbolism within american history as proof, the all seeing eye on the reverse of the seal isn't even freemason, it was invented by the catholic church.
So, jews (the very same people who were prosecuted by the nazis, then mr CT goes on to say BUSH FAMILY ALLIED WITH THE NAZIS!, then you see in other parts of their conspiracy, the freemasons and jews, who were both prosecuted by the nazis, are part of this conspiracy), mr CT hates them, so he blames and misrepresent facts about israel and the zionists, and says, THAT IS PROOF.
So, Rebublicans (well, go figure), same thing
So, Democrats (well, go figure, same same.
Sometimes even some people who dislike a religion or belief, or a scientific theory, will try to tie in this with bad horrific events, such as Hitler was an atheist, Stalin was a jew, which both we know are wrong.
Whenever someone questions or disproves their theories, they will say, well YOURE A DISINFORMATION AGENT.
I once had an account on this site before, i forgot it, but, well, i was called a disinfo agent so so much times. i remember a saying, "we must check ourselves least we wreck ourselves", this is very good for arguments, check your argument before you use it, and dont just blame anyone you hate for the bad things.
Things like this also piss off those who are out there helping things, when marines are thrown rocks at for risking their lives in the pursuit of liberty, or when charity workers organizations are shamed (e.g. the CHIP project of the north american freemason lodges, which had nothing to do with brain chips, it is actually a charitable project to help find loss children, without the need for any actual chips) and blamed. Goddamit ats

Originally posted by john124

This has a danger going beyond people's psychology, and the more people don't call out Iranian Islamic regime propaganda and lies as propaganda and lies, the more chance they have of winning.

It is a fact that people like Ahmenijad misuse conspiracy-theories to sell their own agenda.

The number of conspiracy-theories the Iranian regime has spread in order to deflect from their own wrongdoings is staggering.

"The Holocaust never happened".

"The western media is is trying to manipulate our election process"

"The western media is all lies"

etc.

Its funny how the Iranians themselves do not buy into the rhetoric of their own regime anymore, but the very "advanced" "conspiracy-theorists" do.

The mistaken belief is "my enemies enemy is my friend".

This is how people who were originally interested in things such as UFOlogy or the Paranormal or Secret Politics, become unwitting parrots of propaganda.

But with some discernment, just a little discernment, it would all be no issue.

Originally posted by notreallyalive

The claiming 70% with no citation and the haphazard, mostly incorrect, meaning of psychological terms does nothing but allow conversation. This thread is not at all about fact - it's precisely what the author says is a problem.

70% was a generous estimate based on experience. Experience meaning: Having read A LOT of conspiracy-theory in the last 10 years.

Originally posted by Sed Non Credo

Not a day goes by where I don't sit in awe of many U.S. citizens seemingly overly denying ignorance, to an extent where few even seem to crave all out anarchy.

The say paranoid-thought is not part of the mainstream, but it is. Paranoid against muslims, paranoid against christians, paranoid against atheists, etc. Thats all very mainstream.

Originally posted by T0by
We have to think of the teens we are influencing here at ATS too.
Sometimes it is obvious a poster is quite young and is spouting quite paranoid words at such a young age.

How are topics like the ones on this site going to affect them later in life if they accept them into their belief systems?

I think we shouldn't forget how we are influencing the younger people.

YES, YES, YES!!! I'm nearing my 30's and it has an impact on me. I've become a lot more dissociated with society recently from reading this and more from other sites online and my whole belief system is being shattered nearly every day, I'm slightly more mature and I notice it affecting me. It really can get hard to filter the crap from the credible. We don't all have time to read up on everything we hear about so some of the time we have to hear an idea and consider it worthy on the fly. It's almost like a jury that hears false or misleading evidence and then gets told to disregard it...pfft! You think they can just put that out of their mind? That it doesn't affect the final decision? It's hard to push thoughts out once they've been seeded.

This is what we're doing, but we're all the victims and the funny thing is...we're all the criminals (in the sense that we do this to ourselves, like an alcoholic does it to him or herself).

I doubt that we will be rid of this any time soon...it almost feels as though this is human nature. Whether you're at a pub discussing world events or on a forum, we'll tend towards that which is entertaining and also satisfies our belief systems.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
You're not suggesting that keeping a certain archetype of folk occupied, playing on their fear based dogmas, with contrived conspiracy theories is the real conspiracy, are you?

You`re the first poster who recognizes the OP as a conspiracy-theory of its own.

Originally posted by mckyle

In the real world, people are held accountable for what they write and say

If people on the internet were held accountable for what they say, we`d have a whole lot more truth being written.

Do I stand by what I say? Would I accept the responsibility of youngsters reading what I say? Would what I say have some merit in a court of law?

I guess those are not exactly the questions your average political blogger or conspiracy-theorist are asking. They are asking:

Will this info generate clicks? Will it make me look good? Will it make friends for me? Will it wreck havoc?

reply to post by Skyfloating


UGH!

Why don't I get starred and flagged like this when making up percentages and ratios without any evidence or support like you do?!?!?!

Great points.

I agree and disagree with all of them. But that is not the point. The point is out side the box - I love you.
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Humility is important and so is intelligence or love. Love brings intelligence. Humility comes about as a consequence of love (intelligence).

I can feel some in your post.
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False information is just one of the strategies to trigger the war, mental illness, decay of society. The cause of all that is inside each human being. Intelligent human being is not accepting a conflict - either inside itself or outside itself.

Your statistics is a form of false information because it is inaccurate - you can not deny it - your info is not scientific. However - it is not important. Importance is again outside the subject - love.
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Even though info itself can cause destructiveness, info is not a source of destructiveness. Destruction and conflict comes from the inside of each human being - the info can be used either way - creation or destruction.

Therefore you are right - Alex Jones, ATS, Conspiracy Theorists and other distributors of info are contributing to the fear and hate reality in a massive manner. As long as they do that and not provide people with alternative possibilities or realities, will mean that people love them and need them. Where is demand, there is supply.
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We enjoy to hate, to fear, to obey to authority, submit our powers and responsibilities to politicians, wait for saviors in a form of revolution, jesus, extraterrestrials and so on.

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It comes down to thought against love (unexplainable phenomena).

If your thought (which is information) is more important to you than your love, you are spiraling down.

You spiral up (and everyone around you) as you gravitate towards love.


[edit on 26-7-2009 by FIFIGI]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Skyfloater I just read your OP and it looks like you've just completely given up on every conspiracy theory what so ever.

Do you know what it looks like when someone calls me a disinfo-agent? Do you know what it looks like when someone I know and respect to be a really nice guy is called "a reptilian pedophile" by David Icke?

It looks insane.

Im still into conspiracy-theories. I havent given up on anything. I know that the world is full of secrets.

You can no longer see the truth as it is.

I see first-hand-experience. And then I see people who say stuff that contradicts first-hand-experience. Get out into the world. Experience something. Meet people. Truth is not on a computer screen.

I think you have bought in to the mainstream media's opinion that conspiracy theories are bunk, that conspiracy theories don't happen, and, that they're all a lie.

Conspiracy-theories do happen..thats for sure

These people aren't out to get us. They're only out to control everything. These politicians are control freaks. They're total jokes.

What motivates you to talk this way about your fellow humans. Do you know these people you are talking about personally to make such sweeping generalizations and judgements? Or are you just parroting something you heard Alex Jones say?

The mainstream media doesn't cover them at all. They just love oogling over Obama like he's the messiah. Obama went to bilderberg in 2008.

I dont think Obama is the messiah. I think Michael Jackson is.

Just kidding.

Do you actually know what Bilderberg is? Have you attended the meetings? Or are you just relying on second-hand information?

They probably did plan the economic collapse. If they didn't they certainly ignored all the forewarnings before they did anything.

So the populace - people like you and me - irresponsibly maxing out their credit cards has nothing to do with it? Its the governments fault?

The word conspiracy theory is just a label to discredit people who are looking for the truth. The mainstream media represents the establishment. It only represents two different mainstream sides of the view. People watch the mainstream media. They get their views from them. The government controls the airwaves.

Your "us vs. them" mentality dehumanizes, demonizes fellow humans. Have you ever worked at a media-outlet? I have. Most people I worked with are a bit naive, but they are mostly good-hearted. Get outside and get to know some people.

The New World Order probably is evil.

The "NWO" that seeks to institute worldwide tyranny is failing miserably. Such a force would, for example, never allow the free speech taking place in the Internet. It would not allow that people have a greater life expectancy than ever before. It would not allow that almost everyone in the western hemisphere is rich enough to drive a car. The poorest people in current America are richer than the royals of the middle ages, some of which did not even have a toilet. The overthrow of the government which "anti-NWOers" are calling for would have all the comforts you enjoy collaps within a week.

UFOs do exist.

Ive seen many UFOs myself. Why imply I think Obama is the messiah and UFOs dont exist? I never claimed any such things.

Many people in our government are war mongers.

And you are an agent of piece by using distortions? Right.

much of your post is bunk.

Where did you get the 75% number from?

Truth is based either on facts or, if facts are lacking, on experience.
Ive experienced some of the things you are talking about. Ive experienced UFOs. Ive experienced conspiracy-theorists at lectures. Ive personally met some of the people they accuse.

The stuff you are talking about does not seem to be based on personal experience. Unless you worked in the media or attended a bilderberg meeting of have studied economics.

Why do you even come on here if you just think that conspiracy theorists just have mental problems?

Because I care.

And I am not talking about "THE" conspiracy-theorists, Im talking about the DARK SIDE of it all.

Originally posted by MightyAl
1. Even if you are a disinfo agent, we are already misinformed by many articles in the mainstream and independent news and blogs.

I stopped watching TV News 10 years ago. I dont read mainstream blogs.

2. Enough evidence shows that you are better off trusting David Icke and Alex Jones than the mainstream news for 9/11 and the Swine Flu.

I read David Icke. His only half-decent book is "Love is all there is - everything else is an illusion". But the reason he got arthritis in his hands is because and coughed up blood during one of his speeches is because of all of the falsehood coming out of his writing and talking.

3. The Swine Flu is overblown in the mainstream media and it is the CTs who are trying to make it sound less bad

Some are.

4. Don't trust Sorcha Faal, who tells lies in articles.

Some discernment at last.

5. History shows what the governments have done before, so why shouldn't it happen again? Should I now not trust Jim Marrs either?

History shows that governments have also been honest occassionally. Why does it all have to be black and white?

6. The Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Bildergberg Group, G30, Federal Reserve, Bank of England and so on really exist, and are not just sitting there thinking about the best life for the people on Earth

Power structures change. Currently, google has more power than any royal family, for example. The view that the same people have been in power forever, is questionable.

7. The world of finance is in fact corrupt, e.g. AIG just to mention one, Geithner and the AIG chairman are members of G30 for a start, so how did they handle the AIG bonuses?

8. Anyone ever heard of Carlyle?

9. Anyone ever seen what's going on in Pipelinistan, and wondering how that related to the wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and eventually Iran?

Nowhere did I deny that conspiracy and corruption dont exist.

The mainstream news doesn't mention much of these or anything at all, but they are in fact happening. So who do you want to trust the most?

I´ll trust the unbiased writer who has nothing to gain or loose. And I´ll trust experience.

Originally posted by Neo_Serf
Hence the move to shut down/regulate the web.

The evidence of information-control sank to zero with the rise of the web.
It proved all people who say "information is being controlled" wrong.
Then they went on to say that the internet will be controlled (this started more than a decade ago). Evidence of the internet being shut down is still not forthcoming.

'Conspiracy Theorists', for all their nuttiness, represent the last bastion of truthtelling in an otherwise decietfull world.

Read the U.S. Constitution and tell me which part of it is "bunk". Thats the piece of paper our society is founded upon.

Everything human has a +/-, but in the grand scheme, those of us who ask questions and refuse to be spoonfed info are the vanguard of truthfulness and liberty in an otherwise BS paradigm.

And yet, the mere instance of me questioning some of these beliefs ignites a bunch of ad-hominem attacks. When someone here is telling me a lie and I know its a lie, I also feel spoon-fed with BS.