I'd say argue what is and is not reality all day long. Tell the world about how this reality is minute and minuscule, just don't do it in front of a Mack truck at 50MPH as it is likely your assumptions will be proven wrong. Whether you're there to know it or not is a topic for a different discussion.

...i cant perceive someone as credible who is griping about other people posting opinions that are not validated via facts or are untruthful, when the complainer does the exact same thing (ie: stating percentages and claims that are unverifiable - as well as - confusing narcississm with paranoia, then excusing their error via "oh, its just the way i talk")...

Originally posted by Sirius20

I also like the fact that you had probably 4-5 people ask you the same exact question and you answered said question twice, and there's still people that ask it. If people are going to read a thread, actually go through all the responses, and read them all or at least glance over them and at the very least read what the author of the thread says when he responds to something. This is only a 3 page thread so far. I could understand if it were 20 pages and you answered it in page 14 and some people just don't have the patience to read that much, but it's not a whole lot to read as of yet. Great way to bring some heat to the table. I personally love taking the opposing view of a popular subject just to see people get upset and angry that you don't believe what they do.

I'm guilty of this but I decided to add my post anyway. Why? Simply because this thread perpetuates EXACTLY the negative aspects of what it's pointing out!

The claiming 70% with no citation and the haphazard, mostly incorrect, meaning of psychological terms does nothing but allow conversation. This thread is not at all about fact - it's precisely what the author says is a problem.

Normally I'd agree with you 100% though (about people not reading before they comment)

by the way, nice use of sarcasm!

Star and flag for you. I question whether 70% of information of conspiracy theorists is incorrect. I'd say the number is greater than 90%. The percentage of people who actually care about whether these facts are true is, sadly, much less than 50%. Maybe 10%; maybe not even that.

First, the Armageddon folks have so far always been wrong. The world will only end once. It almost certainly won't be on the exact day anyone claims. Even if it is that exact day, it's only going to be correct once.

Then you've got the folks who claim that the lack of evidence for a phenomenon - fill in the blank- is *proof* of a conspiracy to cover it up. Lack of evidence only means we don't have enough evidence. It doesn't imply a conspiracy.

A large number of people seem to want something massive, catastrophic, to happen. It's as though their lives are so boring, Armageddon would be an improvement. Every crisis, major or minor, real or imagined, is grist for the mill, and there's always someone out there predicting or suggesting that Society As We Know It is crashing down around us to a Götterdämmerung. So far, no such luck. Not saying it *can't happen; just saying it *hasn't*.

Then we've got people claiming some phenomenon - fill in the blank again - either must exist, or cannot exist, and anyone who believes otherwise is either a blind skeptic who refuses to see, or a gullible fool who swallows anything. It's nothing but a holy war.

It would be really nice if we could all just focus on the issues, adding what we know, asking respectful and thoughtful questions, trying to find the truth about a topic, rather than trying to make converts. We really need to stop attacking people for questioning, doubting, believing, or accepting things.

Argue against the facts, don't attack the member. In my opinion, the instant someone attacks someone, they've lost their argument.

[please note I emphasise the segment "seems to hold a larger proportion" which is the basis of this post]



Have to say I agree near entirely with the original post, but one nation should pay particular attention to the advise given. In my view (*although I don't mean to generalise as I realise we're all individuals*) one populace I currently feel is by-and-large/or in-particular danger is citizens of the United States, Americans it seems are guilty of being the most dangerous with regards to being suckered in by conspiracy theories.

Not a day goes by where I don't sit in awe of many U.S. citizens seemingly overly denying ignorance, to an extent where few even seem to crave all out anarchy.

Brilliant OP, something I have considered touching upon before but ultimately stayed away from due to the inevitable flame war that'd ensue by certain sects taking exception to the issues raised. Namely overly protective Americans.

But I say again, I don't mean to generalise (I realise many of you U.S. citizens reading this are not part of this minority I mention.) I'm merely pointing towards what I feel is undeniably is the majority of culprits within this community... U.S. citizens that seem hungry for revolution no matter how or why it comes about.

I've got a feeling a few numpties will take exception to this post.......



[DISCLAIMER: the above is pointing towards the ATS community, not the U.S. community in general. It points towards where I feel if the OP is correct and stating my opinion of where the vast majority of incorrect conspiracy theories are being taken as true. The U.S. seems to hold a larger proportion of people willing to believe all conspiracies. Which I feel leaves the U.S. most at risk from cult type belief systems resulting in hardships based of false theories]




[edit on 25/7/09 by Sed Non Credo]

Originally posted by Skyfloating

I originally wanted to make a blacklist of dishonest "conspiracy-theories", but changed my mind.

Maybe another time...

[edit on 25-7-2009 by Skyfloating]

I think it's got merit.

There are groups on here - and I deliberately use the word "groups" who blindly S&F any comment by one of their ilk - no matter how inane, incorrect, or irrelevant.

In the real world, people are held accountable for what they write and say - not on ATS - or at least not to any creditable level. I think if there was some form of a public 'BlackList' that outed the 'pretenders' and the out and out and liars, then posters would perhaps more careful with their information.

As it stands, ATS's motto: "Deny Ignorance" needs to be changed to "Propagate Ignorance".

Very sad.

PS. S&F Skyfloating

[edit on 26-7-2009 by mckyle]

The "conspiracy" genre is needed, an absolute must, so the negative aspects or down-sides are ultimately irrelevant. An alternative to any media-type that is ultimately controlled by a relatively small handful of individuals or groups in dominant/over-arching positions of power, with even the slightest hint of hidden/vague interests or agendas, and with a very questionable history at best to boot, is an absolute necessity. Independent research and inquiry MUST take place in a pyramidally structured society to keep the playing field as level as possible.

Conspiracy theory, simply put, analyzes and questions authority. The United States was literally founded on this idea and it is a citizens DUTY to consistently do so.... preventing the abuse of power is a citizens most important function in contribution to society and the nation. This idea should also operate on a global scale, it's not just for Americans.

"Conspiracy theory" is actually a terrible terminology to use anymore. When does this "theory" turn into fact? The government and mainstream media would have you believe that this process isn't realized until "official" sources say that it is so. The evidence, proof, and facts can be over-whelming and even far exceed "official" versions in some cases but, it's all conspiracy "theory" until official parties allow it to proceed any further. So much stigma has been attached to the term that to use it as a label can almost immediately kill anything legitimate in about 2.5 seconds when applied.

A conspiracy is simply a pre-conceived, organized, group misdeed of a nefarious nature. A secret machination.... that's all it is. Uncovering covert misdeeds that serve minute selfish interests to the detrimrent of any over-all group should be considered the highest form of patriotism.... how in the world did it get all turned around?

People in the conspiracy community over-all, are just trying to wake other people up by pointing out inconsistancies in the actions and behavior of those in positions of power, they're trying to get others to pay attention to what is going on around them by filling in the REST of the picture. That is an extremely important thing to do in a society filled with rampant apathy, complacency, and an unfathomable amount of distraction. Conspiracy therorists have become the lobbyists for humanity.... since nobody else seems to want to take up the cause. They confront power while everybody else watches and engages in mindless popular culture b.s., info-tainment, texts their friends, and plays video games.

Whether their information ends up being right or wrong, I absolutely salute the effort and sacifices they make to enlighten the rest of us and initiate REAL change in our world.... without them, none of us would stand a chance. I feel extremely fortunate to live in a country where a representative group like this has (and is ever-more gaining) such an incredible voice and sway over perspectives.... in many places it's literally "the party line" or certain death.

This genre does have it's downsides and many can tend to become irrationally and/or detrimentally "passionate" in certain areas.... but, that just illustrates the importance, impact, and necessity of this "movement" more than anything else. Nothing is perfect and all you can really measure any movement by is the intent of the participants and what it ultimately produces. Anything is only as good as the fruit that it bears.... simple but, absolutely true.

The ultimate realization will eventually arrive and it will show what many have already figured out. That human society needs to be COMPLETELY restructured, a total alteration that begins with an HONEST evaluation of where we are and where we've been that leads to a realistic and mutually beneficial rendering of the priorities and goals needed for our future and the changes necessary to make that future a reality.

[edit on 26-7-2009 by infinityzero]

Originally posted by kosmicjack

"Information is now a commodity that can be bought and sold, or used as a form of entertainment, or worn like a garment to enhance one's status. It comes indiscriminately, directed at no one in particular, disconnected from usefulness; we are glutted with information, drowning in information, have no control over it, don't know what to do with it."

That sums it up right there. I´ll add the zen-parable of the overflowing teacup:

It’s almost impossible to learn anything new if you think you already know everything:

Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor’s cup full, and then kept on pouring. The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. “It is overfull. No more will go in!” “Like this cup,” Nan-in said, “you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?”

Originally posted by Phenomium
Yes, but removal of ANY of these freedoms to speak or share ideas despite the outcome will result in 100% slavery to the elites.

I see a lot of people accusing the elite of suppressing freedom of speech.

On a small-scale many anti-elite fanatics do the same thing when they practice...

a) Slander/Libel
b) Not tolerating disagreement
c) Not tolerating anyone questioning their conspiratorial worldview
d) Practicing selective "research" and selective thinking

There are a lot of miniature tyrants around.

Libel is not free speech.

Free Speech has never been in less danger than today. Because of the rise of the internet we have more free speech than ever before.

This kind of contradicts the notion that the plan for the "NWO" is to get rid of all free speech...because with every year that goes by, we have more and more and more free speech for everyone.

Skyfloater I just read your OP and it looks like you've just completely given up on every conspiracy theory what so ever. You can no longer see the truth as it is. I think you have bought in to the mainstream media's opinion that conspiracy theories are bunk, that conspiracy theories don't happen, and, that they're all a lie. These people aren't out to get us. They're only out to control everything. These politicians are control freaks. They're total jokes. The mainstream media doesn't cover them at all. They just love oogling over Obama like he's the messiah. Obama went to bilderberg in 2008. They probably did plan the economic collapse. If they didn't they certainly ignored all the forewarnings before they did anything. The word conspiracy theory is just a label to discredit people who are looking for the truth. The mainstream media represents the establishment. It only represents two different mainstream sides of the view. People watch the mainstream media. They get their views from them. The government controls the airwaves. They can control a lot of what goes on and what is said in the media. During the first gulf war the government is said to have spread propaganda on television. Fox news got its talking points from the White House. Newspaper agencies are pushing for government agendas as opposed to trying to be hard pressed against them. It's one thing to be to be critical of an agenda. It's another thing to be pushing it. The world health organization has allied itself with Baxter over the Swine Flu. In many countries they've initiated mandatory vaccination programs to make everyone take swine flu vaccines. Ronald Reagen did start a program called Rex-84 where he was going to put people who weren't US citizens in camps. The government has a history of spying on US citizens. If 9-11 wasn't an inside job the government did have intelligence in advance that Osama Bin Laden would attack us using airplanes. The US Government did support communist regimes during the Cold War period. There were people in our government that wanted us to coexist with the communists. There were no WMDs in Iraq. We aren't getting anywhere in Afghanistan. Wars don't need to happen. Wars only profit people at the government level. The people who have most control of the government's foreign policy happen to be our central bank- the federal reserve- and- the council on foreign relations. Politicians do meet every year at the bilderberg group. That is a fact. The New World Order probably is evil. If you can't trust politicians at a local level how can you trust them at a global level? Religion can make people do pretty crazy things. UFOs do exist. It's in the government's documents. Aliens exist. I believe in what happened in Roswell, New Mexico. Conspiracies are common throughout history. Who do you think profited off of the bank bailouts the most? It essentially transferred more control of the banking industry from the small banks to the big banks. Many people in our government are war mongers. People don't see peace as a viable answer to world problems. I'm sorry but much of your post is bunk. Where did you get the 75% number from? Why do you even come on here if you just think that conspiracy theorists just have mental problems? Why even be a moderator still?