If USA falls, where would you move to?

reply to post by ldyserenity


that isnt all true, Street gangs such as MS-13,Latin Kings, Bloods, Crips, and others who have been a round a long time are very Para-military. Some of these gangs memebers have taking up residence in the Marienes and Army to get grade A combat training, they return to there gangs with said training and more importantly the understand of the needs of a chain of command. They are must likely the ones who eventually will take the gangsa over.

reply to post by Silver Shadow

The greatest delusion of all by Americans is that if the US goes down, the whole world will go down with it.

It depends on what you mean by "go down"...do you know?

Militarily? Never.

Economically? Never more than anyone else. Not trying to be smug or bias, but if you understand the world and its politics, its basically impossible for the U.S. to fail more than other world powers. It will never be America falling flat on its face while the rest of the world prospers. Its just not the way the current order is set up.

The destruction of Babylon or Rome did not end all life on Earth.
When the British Empire broke up, the rest of the world did fine afterwards.

Firstly Rome and Babylon are two different animals. The reason Rome sparked the the dark ages is because they had such enourmous influence on world trade, world policing/ unification, religion/ the church and had conquered pretty much every modern country at the time maybe besides some of the provincial powers of China. Once the influence of Rome had dissipated their was nobody to step up and take the place of the Roman government. Essentially a power vacuum.


So even though tthe world kept on spinning, there was still a dramatic decrease in world population. Science, literature and basic societal sophistication and advances basically hit a brick wall and Europe took about twelve steps back.

When the USSR collapsed, the rest of the world did just great then too
When the US empire self destructs, the rest of world will hardly even notice.

Comparing the USSR to America is silly. They are not even on the same page. Even at the time of the USSRs pinnacle of power they did not have 1/10th of the influence America currently has over business, politics, and most importantly money.

In most other countries we find all this fairly interesting, but it will not effect us in the slightest..

If America went the way of Rome it doesnt matter what country you are in. You would feel it in some way or another. What is bound to happen is the dominance America has enjoyed for the last 75 years will inevitabley be thinned, and other states will step up and begin to spread their regional influence via politics and more importantly business (i.e. corporatism/ fascism in the same sense America has used these techniques to gain its influence over wolrd business). More equal power distribution will take place and that is not a bad thing. It has been a long time coming and it would be foolish for American elites to fight it. Im sure they will maneuver in their best interests.

Though, inevitably there will be some conflict as things play out. Especially in Chinese and middle eastern power shifts contine to converge and develop.

edit to fix quote




[edit on 26-7-2009 by open_eyeballs]

If I were to leave America, or what's left of it, it would be because so many people here (in America) have a completely ingrained paradigm that life revolves around money.

I would leave to find a community which can better adapt to compassion, fairness, and a more Socialist lifestyle.

Could socialism survive in America? Sure it can, but it will be a long, hard battle between the survivalists and all the people who still think life is about money, including people who think software engineering is the future of human life.

Bottom line: I want to feel and live like a human being, not like a money-worshipping slave or modeled after what's hot in Marketing. Doing that somewhere besides America will be easiest in this next two decades.

reply to post by contemplator


I really don't know where there is left in the world that could be a safe haven supplying all of the subsistence needs? New Zealand has always appealed to me but regardless of where one decides to go, there are the government controls over acquiring work, not to mention landed immigrant status and or citizenship. For those of us who are not independently wealthy, all our choices are relegated to jobs and being able to stay in a country without deportation hassles. So this makes it all the more challenging.

I have thought about this long and hard. I live on the West Coast of Canada and have had prophetic dreams since I was a child of what is to come.
Once the U.S. initiates martial law, they will start taking control of the highways, oil and people.

Shortly thereafter, other countries follow suit. Canada is then taken over by the U.S. military because of our water and resources. U.S. tanks take over the entire border and make it illegal for anyone to travel or even drive. Airports are also off limits except to military, government officials and the people who have special clearance. Then the prison camps are utilized. This is a very short version of what I have seen.

So either we get out before it all happens or it will be next to impossible.

From what I have seen Canada is not a safe location either. On a future map it becomes The U.S. of Canada because it is taken over by the U.S.

Wars break out all throughout the provinces and mayhem on the streets sets the theme.

So maybe New Zealand, Patagonia or the Himalayas??? Question is how many of us have the resources to be able to make such a move? I do believe many will simply perish.

[edit on 26-7-2009 by Egyptia]

I'm not a bug-outer, I'm a bug-inner.

I ain't goin' nowheres but here.

Really, I've invested too much into the land here to create my gardens and such to make it worthwhile to flee. I'd rather stay and work my spot and enjoy life no matter what happens around me. I'll provide shelter to my friends and food to those who help grow it, cook it, or make it easier for those who do. There's water, prepared gardens, and a reasonably defensible perimeter.

I totally agree with the bear food concept. And I'd like to point out to the wilderness gardeners how much the local wildlife will appreciate your efforts. The vast majority of those who bug out to the wilderness will be dead within a winter.

The US is in the process of disintegration: any competent student of history can recognize the symptoms. At this point it's pretty much irreversible, in my opinion. There's a slight chance of genuine transformation and change that would result in a renewal, but I don't really see that as happening. The US will be gone soon, but the people who made it up won't go anywhere any more than the citizens of the USSR did.

I would move to a very remote region of central Canada. All the moose you can eat, and no one to bother you.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Never go down militarily ?

America has lost every single war it has started over the last sixty years.
EVERY SINGLE WAR.
Think about that.........

The only battles America have ever won have been as a small part of United Nations multinational forces.
With other nations to help hold America's hand, you can do your share quite well. But by yourselves you always lose.

That last glorious little epic in Georgia sent US and Israeli military advisers and CIA spies quite literally running for their lives. A great victory, huh ?

Never go down economically ?

You must be joking surely.
The US Government must now borrow or print five billion dollars every single day just to function.
When foreigners stop contributing to your BEGGING BOWL, you are doomed as a nation. That stage has now been reached.

The delusion that America is the wealthiest and most powerful nation on Earth is not just untrue, it is completely laughable.

reply to post by Silver Shadow


I was sure you were going to take offense to this for some reason. Angry people always do. Such a pity.

In no way was I boasting that America is the 'greatest nation on earth' or anything of the sort. You are just ignorant to some facts. The reason America will never go down due to any opposition militarliy are due to a few reasons. The major one being its location and proximity to any and all enemies with any capable military force. I have covered this whole topic before and dont feel like rehashing it for someone who is a as spiteful as you, so I will leave it at that.

America has lost every single war it has started over the last sixty years.
EVERY SINGLE WAR.

This is bunk. You know it. Everyone knows it that is even a half witt when it comes to history. Your spiteful bias is getting ahold of your tounge and making you look foolish.

While I am completely discontent with Americas foreign policy (I believe we should be militarily isolationists and never send one soldier to foreign land, whether it be to help in regional conflicts, police peace treaties or even to destroy a percieved threat). The two enemies America has fought on its own turf (the Red Coats and the Spanish) have resulted in the enemy retreating forever and never returning hostile. That was also with no technological advantages or the 3 trillion dollrs in spending that we currently have the unfortunate habit of doing today. America has never fought a foreign enemy and lost a war by the numbers. Ther have been missed objectives and agendas that were not completely fulfilled, but when it comes to individual battles and the statistics between the two forces, America has never been defeated. Nearly every battle since WW2 has been victorious for the American military. This is mostly because the spending of trillions on defense and defense related technology.

Think about that.........

You can chew on that for a while. It would help to educate yourself in history before you respond though.

The only battles America have ever won have been as a small part of United Nations multinational forces.
With other nations to help hold America's hand, you can do your share quite well. But by yourselves you always lose.

You would make a decent comedian...

Never go down economically ?

When did I say "never go down economically? Now your trying to put words in my mouth. By all means quote me...

Here I'll do it for you:

Economically? Never more than anyone else. Not trying to be smug or bias, but if you understand the world and its politics, its basically impossible for the U.S. to fail more than other world powers. It will never be America falling flat on its face while the rest of the world prospers. Its just not the way the current order is set up.

Do you get what I am saying? Because of globalism, the world economy is inherently tied to the U.S. economy because the U.S. economy has been the driving force behind world production for the last 80 years. You may not understand it and be ignorant to those facts, but that is the way it is. Sorry you don't like it bud.

The delusion that America is the wealthiest and most powerful nation on Earth is not just untrue, it is completely laughable.

Again, never implied that. What I did say was that Americas elite hold to much sway over world business. And in todays geo- fascist/ corporatist politics that is the biggest card any country can have in their hand.

I was speaking to a co-worker about this earlier. I decided on either New Zealand or Switzerland.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


I said "America has not won a single war in the last sixty years".

You said that is bunk, and gave examples of the Red Coats and Spanish.

I don't recall any such wars in the last sixty years ???
Please enlighten me further..

As far as America being wealthy, you cannot be wealthy if you are so far buried in debt, it can NEVER be repaid.

Do you know anything about the financial plight of California right now ?

Sorry to rub it in, but it really irritates me When Americans claim they are the richest and most powerful nation on Earth.

reply to post by Silver Shadow

but it really irritates me When Americans claim they are the richest and most powerful nation on Earth.

Again with putting words in my mouth...please...quote me as to when I said anything of the sort...

Ill be waiting...

You havent replied to anything I have said. Why? I know why. Because you dont know what it is you are talking about. Go take a few history lessons then feel free to come back and have something worth typing...

And next time, try removing the boot before you insert your foot into your mouth...your spite is obvious, and the sad thing is you don't even know why you are so angry...

I have not replied to many of the points you have made, point by point, because there is nothing there that I see as really worthy of a a response.

That is my option.

But by the same token, you have not responded to any of my questions either.

And that is your perfect right to do so..

It is for other Forum members to decide for themselves where the real truth lies in this.

But we shall very soon see..................
One of us is dead wrong.
And I really mean DEAD wrong.

reply to post by Silver Shadow


..I did adress you point by point..You couldnt even answer my very first question...

Do you even know what you mean by the U.S. going down?

All I have done is give you examples of fact as to why you are wrong, and that you obviously have no clue as to what it is you are talking about.

So unless you want to give something specific in reference to your opinion or evidence to back up your ignorant claims such as:

"America has lost every war for the last 60 years"

, or

that the rest of the world will be fine if America collapses financially

etc., etc., then there is no reason to continue with this...just go on your merry way and be done with this thread.

And I have begged you to find any contrary evidence to what I have posted. What I have said is the truth, and for ignorant people the truth always sucks to hear. So it is not up to anyone else to determine who is right and who is wrong. Nothing I have said is wrong. Only your opinions are wrong because you have nothing to back them up. I have history and common knowledge on my side. You have spite and ignorance on yours.

So either # or get off the pot...This was the lamest attempt at bashing America I have ever seen...Pathetic...

Could you please get over it, who is the nicest, biggest, smartest country in the world and return to the topic, please. That US dominance is falling, like the British and Roman Empire experienced should be of no doubt to nobody.

Getting back to the initial question, once tshtf it's to late to move thousands of miles. You better move now to your dreamland or dream about it. Once the streets are under military or mob control, it's to late to move out.

So better start reading the survival threads here at ATS.

If you still think to move before doomsday, consider "what" will happen.

Asteroids, comets, planet X and similar: There is no safe heaven nowhere.

Avoid earthquake and volcanoe areas, avoid costal areas (go to at least 500 m / 1500 ft over sea level), avoid big cities & crowed areas.

If there is no pole shifting or enormous climate change, but still something like a nuclear winter (no sunshine after volcanoe eruptions) go as close to the equator as possible.

So my advice. Read survival threads, store food, your home=your castle, after some time when most of the people have died (killed, starved, etc) move out to the country side and try to survive by seek and hide.

If climate has shifted and you now live at the North Pole, study sunrise and sunset to find out where the equator is, try to reach the shores and build yourself a boat or find one, which would be the safest place on the world.

I followed the theory of Ivan "Evon" Stein on the Timeline to 2012 - Ice Age Core Data, to be found here:

www.youtube.com...
(10 vids en total)

If a new Ice Age sets in and a polar shift will happen, please consider the following two vids, before chosing your dreamland.

This one is said to be where the equator will be:




And this one: The future map of the world.
Note: some areas will be flooded, new land will be born.




ARE YOU READY ??

What would happen to bills, rent etc. If suddenly the currency of the United States was worth little to nothing? Would everyone be evicted from their apartments; there homes foreclosed on all because no one could afford anything anymore?
I wanted to buy my own house because I figured if I had my own house it would be harder for someone to ask me to leave?
If america falls willl everyone suddenly be homeless. starving etc? Or will society somehow change and help each other out?
I am not sure where in the world I would go because I figure the other countries may be in just as much chaos.
The bottom line is humanity needs to stick together and help each other out so if america falls then we can help build it back up again.

For all the people saying that they would flee, I have one very important question.... How?

If the US fails, it will more than likely be complete pandemonium, getting a flight out of the country will be tough, seats will be limited, you might be forced to leave someone behind, you might not be able to get access to your cash to get everyone out.

If you seriously think you would flee and you seriously think that the US is going to collapse, you need to flee now, not after it happens. By the time you realize that the US has fallen, it's too late, the worst is on its way... martial law, people disappearing.... urban centers are going to be very rough.

Me, I'm staying put, would probably retreat to the "country" as I have several options to get to a farm, which to me is more important as long as you can defend it. Oh, and getting to the country is going to be tough enough, couldn't imagine trying to get to a completely different country.

[edit on 7/27/2009 by Finalized]

I don't think it's fair to question people's patriotism and call them cowards if people are discussing their options about leaving the country if things got really bad. I thank god every day that my mother was sensible enough to leave her home country to come to the U.S. to make a better life for herself and her family (I don't want to identify the country - god knows who is reading this, but suffice to say, it's not a pleasant or safe place to be unless you're rich, well-armed and don't speak out against the government). Joining a militia to fight an oppressive government is not a practical option for everyone, especially for a middle-aged woman living with an elderly mother and 3 small girls.

For the Jews living in Nazi Germany, some tried to flee, some stayed to fight, but were vastly outgunned and outnumbered. Knowing what kind of enemies the faced (not just the Nazis, but Germans too), would you call the ones who got away a bunch of cowards, or just smart and lucky?

That being said, I think my first ex-pat country of choice would be Canada, since it's an 8 hour drive from New York and I can speak French. However, in the unlikely event that it merges with the U.S. and I have to use the "Amero" at McDonalds, then my
second choice would be Costa Rica or somewhere in the Caribbean.

The UK and the EU countries look like a risky bet. To me, Europe is ground zero for the New World Order and even more dangerous and unstable politically, esp. in the countries with large Muslim populations.

One more weird and interesting thing related to this thread. Last year, I attend a New Life Expo where Sean David Morton was a guest speaker. He's a remote viewer/psychic that's a regular guest on Coast to Coast. He was talking about this very topic and said that he has documents stating that he's an ambassador for the Dominion of Melchizedek. I had e-mailed him asking for more information. He says that it's about $3,000 become an ambassador and you need letters of recommendation from other ambassadors attesting to your good character. Supposedly, once you have these papers, you have diplomatic immunity from U.S. laws. However, if you do a little online research, you'll discover that Melchizadek isn't even a real country, so either Mr. Morton got snookered, or he was trying to snooker the audience

Soviet Russia. Okay, definitely not. Being born there and having visited once, you would have to force me to live there. Otherwise, hell no. A 2 week stay there is more than enough to me. Honestly, I have never thought about it. But it would definitely be a warm place. I see several people said New Zealand. Is it really nice there?

America not going to fall ! To the disappointment of alot of people who clam to love it

Originally posted by redsbaseball
America not going to fall ! To the disappointment of alot of people who clam to love it

But it's always fun to imagine the unlikely.