Crop Circle - New one is a beauty! 24th July 2009

So now it seems farmers are destroying these formations.Is it close to harvest as it appears in the ground shot photos?Or are they organized in opposition to this alteration of their crop?Seems to blow the whole,'they're-in-it-for-the-money' conspiracy pushed by the otherwise strawless graspers trying to debunk.So now is the issue still about true roundness?Or what?Any dolphin-on-wave yet?Maybe that is what the farmer got.Check out the multi layer effects photographed by Linda Moulton Howe,explain that?Not just her opinion,dated photos.Of course the projectors among us will call fraud.Oh well.

Beautiful. Thank you for this. I would like to make like it.

Originally posted by DGFenrir
You are the one who's being closed minded.

No I'm not, you're the one who has made up his mind, I'm still on the fence.

If I had a crop field I would defenetly "hire" the circlemakers to make a crop circle onto my field. Then I'd charge believers for visiting the circle.

Well that's you, doesn't prove other people would, or are, doing that.
Just because it makes sense to you it doesn't make it fact, any more than aliens did it (which I DON'T believe btw).

What anomalies are still unexplained?

Unbroken bent and blown nodes, no sign of human activity, insects melted on to plants, swirled patterns etc., there are lots of them.

The circles aren't made by microwaves or aliens.
Just because you've convinced yourself, and some other closed minded posters, doesn't make it true.

I never said they were, but how do you know that? This is you being closed minded. I have no idea how they're made, and until we know I'll be keeping my mind open to any possibility, unlike you who already thinks he know everything.

Open minded does not stand for believing that aliens or teh government are behind everything.

Again where have I said any of that? Please don't stereotype me. I have no idea how they're made and make no claim to know.

[edit on 1-8-2009 by Wally Hope]

CropArgnostic is the most open minded position,watching,waiting,not jumping to conclusions.The only potential weakness in this position is that the habit of waffling is a hard one to break if there really is a message,further,a warning.One finds one self waiting for that one conclusive bit of evidence that the self styled authority in this can bring to the table...And possibly hesitate too long.Knowing won't help if you don't heed a warning such as coastal floods,which I am merely postulating for example,not real.You may suffer from 'Q factor burnout' but it's up to us all to listen to many sources,etc,and thy gut.

reply to post by Wally Hope


How can you tell whether I'm on the fence or not?
It's not my fault that majority of the evidence supports man-made theory..

Unbroken bent and blown nodes

You can't be serious. You don't know why plants get bent? Do you know what that node is for? For bending.
Google: Phototropism
That sohuld be the start. I'm not giving any other keywords right now..

What are signs of human activity? Candy wrappers?
I tried googling melted insects but coudn't find any pictures. Could you please provide me with a few links?

Can anyone who supports the microwave theory explain us how the microwaves are supposed to push something with such accuracy?

[edit on 1/8/2009 by DGFenrir]

reply to post by trueforger


You're generalizing and that's a stupid thing to do..
The "They are in on it" explanation wasn't offered as "They are ALL in on it"

reply to post by DGFenrir


Is the microwaves how we get toasted wheat? You know i couldn't resist right. I fear your wasting your time trying to convince certain people there wrong its almost like a religion to them.They taught these supposed scientific studies by scientists that don't even know if what there looking at is normal or not. Id bet most chemists and physicists have no idea what grain that has been lodged is even supposed to look like. Then there is the reaction of the plants depending on when the crop circle is made tends to be harder to bend later in the season making the crop circle look worse.They test the soil without even finding out what fertilizers were used and shocked when there is something abnormal.Of course it is the farmer changed the content of the soil!

I used to be interested in the crop circle phenom until you start doing some investigating and realize its normal reaction of being trampled.Just enjoy there work it really is quite amazing.As for Aliens good grief surely there smart enough to know this leaving us a message thing isn't working.And as for some weapon test there not going to do that in a wheat Field in england it would be on a secluded area where they can control every aspect of the test site.Just use logic here there is evidence there man made there is no evidence of anything else there for you can only draw one conclusion!

Again, I'll repeat what I said in the other crop circle thread...do NOT plunge the thread into a debate regarding the authenticity of the crop circles. What is the point in writing the same exact argument in every crop circle thread? Can we PLEASE focus on the crop circles themselves? Those who want to debate whether crop circles are man-made or not should make a thread dedicated to that alone, and leave threads such as this in the hands of the intelligent! I myself know not the origin of the circles, but I'm sure as hell never going to come any closer to the truth of the matter with everyone spouting out their own ignorant conclusions, which sadly have nothing to do with the photos originally posted at the beginning of this thread!

Originally posted by lpowell0627
reply to post by jfj123

 

At some point, when people write research papers, claim credentials, and post their findings in numerous science journals, i tend to believe that they really ARE scientists.

They measure them. They study them. They report their findings. They get published. They run studies on the soil. They set up cameras. They take pictures.

Fine then why are you refusing to both respond to questions or post the evidence you claim to have? If you were to simply backup your claims, you could end this really quick right?

If you can't back up what you're saying, don't bother posting. You just end up looking stupid and we wouldn't want that, would we ?

reply to post by VergeofObscene


What do you have to say about this crop circle? Do you have anything to say other than telling people what they shouldn't say?

reply to post by lpowell0627

REITER, Nicholas A. ........................................... SEM/EDS Technician
Associate Degree (2-yr.) in Applied Sciences--1983
(Terra Technical College, Fremont, Ohio)
Since1984 has worked in fields of engineering technology, vacuum technology, thin films and high-temperature semiconductor chemistry. Also works on research projects in association with the McMaster Foundation for Gravity Research.
Currently:Scientist, First Solar LLC -- Toledo, Ohio.

Ok this guy has an associates degree in applied sciences. this is a general basic science degree. This is the degree you get if you have no idea what you want to do but you hate liberal arts. This is almost a meaningless degree.

ROLL, Dr. William ..................................................... Parapsychologist
Ph.D, Parapsychology, Lund University (Sweden)--1989
M.Litt, Oxford University (England)--1957
B.A., University of California at Berkeley--1949
Roll joined the staff of the Parapsychology Laboratory at Duke University in 1957, working under Dr. J.B. Rhine until 1964. He has authored more than 100 scientific papers, edited eleven volumes of Research in Para-psychology, and written three books. In 1996 he received the "Distinguished Career in Parapsychology" award from the Parapsychological Association and in 2002 was awarded the "Dinsdale Memorial Award" for his investigations of R.S.P.K.
Currently: Adjunct Professor of Parapsychology, State University of West Georgia -- Carrollton, GA.

A Parapsychologist?
Really?

Walter Peck: Are you Peter Venkman?
Dr. Peter Venkman: Yes, I'm *Doctor* Venkman!
Walter Peck: Exactly what are you a doctor of, Mr. Venkman?
Dr. Peter Venkman: Well, I have a PhD in parapsychology and psychology.
Walter Peck: And now, you catch ghosts?
Dr. Peter Venkman: Yeah, you could say that.
Walter Peck: And how many ghosts have you caught, Mr. Venkman?
Dr. Peter Venkman: I'm not at liberty to say.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/87da34db823c.jpg[/atsimg]

Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

SCHILD, Dr.Rudolph E. ................................. Astronomer/Astrophysicist
PhD in Astrophysics, University of Chicago--1966
M.S. in Physics, University of Chicago--1963

Previous positions include: Research Fellow, Mt. Wilson/Palomar
Observatories; Scientific Director, 60" Telescope Program, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory; Lecturer , Harvard University.
Professional Societies: American Astronomical Society (1965)
and the International Astronomical Union (1969 ), where he
is a member of Commission 29 (Stellar Spectra), Commission
45 (Stellar Classification), and Commission 51 (Bioastronomy:
Search for Extraterrestrial Life).
Currently: Astronomer, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for
Astrophysics, Cambridge, Massachusetts USA.

So how did this astrophysicist test soil samples?

STEARMAN, DR. ROBERT O. .............................. Aeronautical Engineer
Ph.D in Aeronautical Engineering, Cal Tech--1961
M.S. in Aeronautical Engineering, Cal Tech--1956
B.S. in Mechanical Engineering, Oklahoma State Univ.--1955
In addition to teaching both graduate and undergraduate courses in reliability, unsteady aerodynamics, random vibrations, aeroelasticity and structural dynamics since 1963, Professor Stearman has worked with the Boeing Co. as an Aerodynamist and as a Senior Analyst in the Mathematics and Physics Division of the Midwest Research Institute. His consulting experience includes work for the Air Force and several D.O.D.-funded programs at wind tunnel research facilities at NASA Ames and NASA Langley and at Air Force-owned AEDC facilities. Most of this work involved research on aeroelastic-related phenomena. Dr. Stearman has published multiple papers in refereed journals and is an active member of several professional societies, including the AIAA, ASA, SAE, ASEE and the EAA.
Currently: Bettie Margaret Smith Professor of Engineering, Aerospace Engineering and Engineering Mechanics Dept., University of Texas at Austin.

So did this guy test the wheat in a wind tunnel or something?

Can you actually post someone with scientific credentials in the proper fields?
Can you even post a surveyor crew showing how "perfect" the crop circles are? I've asked you a dozen or so times for this information. Since you claim this info is everywhere, why won't you post it?

[edit on 1-8-2009 by jfj123]

I have some questions for anyone who is reading this thread:
1)Has anyone been caught in the act of making these patterns?
2)Do any of the farmers of these fields charge people to enter the patterns and study them up close? If so how much?
3)Has anyone given a demonstration on how to make these more complicated patterns including the intricate weaving of the stalks, bending but not breaking the plants and more importantly not leaving any sign that they were in the field?
4)I've heard that some of the farmers are mad as hell when they see that their crops have been trampled down and immediatley destroy the pattern. Is this true?
Thanks in advance for any and all honest responses to my inquirys.

reply to post by dragonridr

What have you to answer to the photos of Linda M H showing the layering?Photoshopped?Illusion?Natural?Coincidence?Is this trampled? How?Why the rules of order?

reply to post by DGFenrir

More straw grasping.All the farmers are under the same pressures.The fuel costs are similar,though I do know about conracts,the pressure is the same.Economic pressures.If one guy figured out how to make lots of money contracting for and then selling sightings of circles,you can bet others will do likewise.Selling is not rocket science.Making the Crop Art might very well be.Evolution of technique includes replication of successful adaptations for survival.If there is money to be made no destruction will happen to the goose that lays the golden egg.No logic to that.Neither stupid nor over generalized statement.Projecting,perhaps?

Originally posted by trueforger
reply to post by DGFenrir

 

More straw grasping.All the farmers are under the same pressures.The fuel costs are similar,though I do know about conracts,the pressure is the same.Economic pressures.If one guy figured out how to make lots of money contracting for and then selling sightings of circles,you can bet others will do likewise.Selling is not rocket science.Making the Crop Art might very well be.Evolution of technique includes replication of successful adaptations for survival.If there is money to be made no destruction will happen to the goose that lays the golden egg.No logic to that.Neither stupid nor over generalized statement.Projecting,perhaps?

Since you're so sure you're right and we're wrong. Why not provide actual scientific evidence to prove it?
The claims of perfect crop circles have NEVER been posted. As a matter of fact, any of the claims made by the "believers" have not been substantiated in any way. Why not?

Originally posted by kenton1234
I have some questions for anyone who is reading this thread:?

1)Has anyone been caught in the act of making these patterns?

I believe this link answers your first question.
www.rense.com...

2)Do any of the farmers of these fields charge people to enter the patterns and study them up close? If so how much?

This should answer you next question:

"Crop circles are treated as legitimate tourist attractions in Wiltshire. One made in 1996 got more visitors than Stonehenge and the farmer grossed about £30,000 in four weeks by charging a pound a person."

news.bbc.co.uk...

www.cropcircles.org...

3)Has anyone given a demonstration on how to make these more complicated patterns including the intricate weaving of the stalks, bending but not breaking the plants and more importantly not leaving any sign that they were in the field?

Yes and even wrote a how to book check out circle makers website.
And support there work buy something!

www.circlemakers.org...

4)I've heard that some of the farmers are mad as hell when they see that their crops have been trampled down and immediatley destroy the pattern. Is this true?

Yes they have and believe me there stupid because they can let one of these tours in have people stand in the crop circle to feel whatever they do and make more money than the damaged crop.

Thanks in advance for any and all honest responses to my inquirys.

NP I love it when people take the time to ask instead of letting there personal beliefs get in the way of the facts.

reply to post by kenton1234


i like your inquisitiveness...here's not an answer, but another question: when these appear in the u.s., will the fda allow that portion of the crop to be harvested for human or animal consumption somewhere down the line?

Originally posted by DGFenrir
It's not my fault that majority of the evidence supports man-made theory..

It does?

How can you tell whether I'm on the fence or not?

How can I tell? Are you serious?

You can't be serious. You don't know why plants get bent? Do you know what that node is for? For bending.
Google: Phototropism That sohuld be the start. I'm not giving any other keywords right now..

LOL OK, yes I know what phototropism is, it doesn't explain how the plants bend at the node, are not broken from being stomped down by the circle makers walking all over their design, which would break the plants and leave FOOTPRINTS in the dirt, don't you think?
So what did they use a huge light source and a time machine? That's the only way for phototropism to work.

Science Dictionary
phototropism (fō-tŏt'rə-pĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key
The growth or movement of a fixed organism toward or away from light. In plants, phototropism is a response to blue wavelengths of light and is caused by a redistribution of auxin from the illuminated side to the darker side of the shoot, resulting in quicker growth on the darker side and bending of the shoot toward the source of light. Certain sessile invertebrates also exhibit phototropism.

dictionary.reference.com...

So how does that work again?

I tried googling melted insects but coudn't find any pictures. Could you please provide me with a few links?

I have no idea if there are pics on the web or not, not everything is on the web, does anyone know what a book is anymore? I will scan a pic when I get the chance.

Can anyone who supports the microwave theory explain us how the microwaves are supposed to push something with such accuracy

That's a good question. But the question is 'how are they done?' Everyone has their pet ideas, but no one really knows (excepting the few "experts" we have here who know everything). It could be something way out of our comprehension. Or it could be people with boards and rollers. But all I know is there has been research done, and they know how to tell the man made ones from the ones they can't explain. Either there are two groups of people, one using boards and rollers, and the other using more sophisticated methods no one has yet figured out, or it's something we are yet to understand. But how can that be, we know everything?...

I just think that to blow them all off as man-made is closed minded, especially when your mind is made up before you've even done any research.

[edit on 2-8-2009 by Wally Hope]

Plants bend away from the source of gravity(geotropism)and toward light(blue light specifically,called phototropism).At night,after a plant has been pushed over so far it 'sets' it straightens before first light,hence geotropism is the mechanism.The process involves hormones guiding cell accumulation on the underside of the stem,forming a type of scar tissue area,not exactly a 'node' but resembling one to the eye.Under magnification,it is seen to be incomplete,meaning that the growth structure is not completely around the stem.The geotropic effect does not require a node.A node is a complete growth structure meaning it encompasses the whole stem,from normal growth,neither geo nor photo tropic,just straight up,guided by the tropisms of the whole stem.No bend.That these plants have 'blown nodes' means that the mechanism of formation results from short term loss of integrity at the normally straight upward growing growth node closest to the ground,allowing the plant to fall over.These nodes have water contained within a capsule,and it is there the chemicals regulating growth are formed.A mini factory.A seat of plant consciousness,if you will,responding to external stimulus,as close to mobility as you will find in most plants.That the plants don't appear to be killed by this,indicates it is a very fast thing.Geotropism is fairly fast as well,but since it is the deposit of cells in a structure as well as the removal and caannibalization of damaged cells,it takes a couple hours.

yes I know what phototropism is, it doesn't explain how the plants bend at the node

You say you know what it is and you still don't understand it. It's not a slow reaction. It explains exactly how the plants bend at the node. That's what the node is for. You can see slight bending in crops outside crop circles also AND you could find blown nodes too.
I can consider the possibility of them being made by aliens or some unknown tech but there isn't any supportive evidence for that.
The tram lines are usually pretty dry so I doubt you could find any footprints in most of them.