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Crop Circle - New one is a beauty! 24th July 2009

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posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 




The same way you would use blue prints to build a full sized house. It all has to do with scale.
One way to make things a bit quicker would be to pre-mark the lengths of rope for the locations of the center points and color code them for each arc.
Basically what I'm talking about is making a blue print equivalent for a crop circle. It works for a house and it'll work for a crop circle.


I'm sorry but I'm being somewhat dense here as I can't picture how somebody standing in the middle of a wheat field would PHYSICALLY use those color-coded ropes to lay out that specific angle.
Laying out the straight line for 1 side of the angle is trivial ... but how do you measure that specific angle to be able to lay out the other straight line ?

Ok, it's getting onto midnight here in Oz so I'll check your response in the morning




posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 09:15 AM
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My two cents -

Crop circles were a great mystery until "Doug & Dave" decades ago were quoted as having been the hoaxers - since that time they have been mostly assumed and presumed to be man-made - all of them.

If you check their history, they indeed have gotten much more complicated over the years - their intricacy and designs (in my opinion) are fascinating.

Crop Circle Research Facts (as told by Colin Andrews, whom I've met a few times)
- you only have to have one circle not attributed to a hoaxer to prove not all circles are man made
- there are circles in many other regions and countries, but none as famous as england (have been found in snow, sand)
- depending on the age of the crop at the time of the 'circle', determines the fate of the crop, i.e. if the circle appears at the beginning of the grow year, the crop will not mature - it is permanently stunted. If it is near the end of the crop, the farmer does not lose those stalks
- sometimes the 'imprint' of a crop circle will appear the next year because the ground has not allowed the next years crop to fully grow.
- most of the crop circles 'hinge' on a ley line - either one side or a point will be connected

Colin was an engineer for the British Government who set out to debunk circles and instead became a global expert for the years he was doing it, eventually leaving the government to pursue them full time.

In 'real circles' the grain is NEVER (repeat NEVER) broken, the stalks are always 'bent', their nodes in place, the plant undamaged.

These circles are often several hundred feet across - the lines seen in many of them are tractor marks so when standing in them they are MASSIVE.

The cost to hire a plane and fly over to take pictures is prohibiting proper data recording (Busty Taylor for a long time did this but was unable to financially continue) so many are missed.

My conclusions -

- hoaxers may be doing some, but they're sure not doing all - and they're not 'smart enough' to come up with the intricate designs; fast enough to do it all in a few hours unless there's many of them; quiet enough to do all these without witnesses finding them going in or out; and their designs would go un-noticed unless they alerted someone they were there in the first place.

- no one makes money off these - once in a while a farmer will ask admission for lookers to be in his fields, it's nominal compared to running a farm or "not" farming his field so people can look at a circle.

- there has been no accounting for why the stalks bend instead of break.

- there has been no accounting for why sometimes the next year where there was an image, the crop doesn't grow properly there the next year and leaves a vague outline.

- there has been no accounting for the measurements of electromagnetic energy.

Who Makes Them?

- could be a free for all doodle ground - though I would think aliens would have better reasons to cast them and better ways to spend their time.

- could be experimental plasma research from the military, though their beauty is a conundrum if this is the case unless their beauty was part of the ruse.

- could be messages from other aliens races unable to be here because of the intense web created around our earth and solar system.


My bottom line is to think these were all created by hoaxers only AFFIRMS their discrediting from years ago is alive and well today.

I had an opportunity to bring Colin Andrews to Canada here to talk years back and when I asked a few people about crop circles, their immediate and `programmed`response was Òh, they`ve proved those were hoaxed.

No..... they showed a couple were hoaxed (on purpose) to discredit all the rest... just like they do for anything else that has value to our intelligence and soul learning....

And here we are decades later now with incredibly intricate `math`patterns we sit around and wonder how the hoaxers did this one - not ìf they did it in the first place.

There is zero possibility all (even most in my opinion) circles are hoaxed. Zero.

[edit on 26-7-2009 by kshaund]



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by aleon1018
 


Thanks for the links.

My humble attempts to decipher the message.
if picture is missing

Symbols:-



Let us not be missing the point. Regardless if it is out of this world or created by our world, there is a message in the circle. Rather than to waste time challenging each other's theories, isnt it better spent deciphering it, after 16 pages of vitrol??



[edit on 26-7-2009 by SeekerofTruth101]



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 09:22 AM
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In relation specifically to this crop circle - where`s the hoaxer who did this one?
Where`s their drawing plans (they had to have had one)?
Where`s their `team`?
Why do it if they`re not going to be recognized for it somehow??? And I would suggest if there are hoaxers out there doing it and not wanting recognition, then they`re getting `paid`somehow and by `someone`. No one does all that to just sit at home and be silent and invisible to it all unless there`s a pay off somewhere else.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by afoolbyanyothername
reply to post by jfj123
 




The same way you would use blue prints to build a full sized house. It all has to do with scale.
One way to make things a bit quicker would be to pre-mark the lengths of rope for the locations of the center points and color code them for each arc.
Basically what I'm talking about is making a blue print equivalent for a crop circle. It works for a house and it'll work for a crop circle.


I'm sorry but I'm being somewhat dense here as I can't picture how somebody standing in the middle of a wheat field would PHYSICALLY use those color-coded ropes to lay out that specific angle.
Laying out the straight line for 1 side of the angle is trivial ... but how do you measure that specific angle to be able to lay out the other straight line ?

Ok, it's getting onto midnight here in Oz so I'll check your response in the morning


Let's say you want to create a 38 degree pie slice that is 30 ft long.
You find your center point of the radius.
For the purpose of visualization ONLY, we will go ahead and pound a 8 ft pike into the ground. We will then run our first 30 ft line and pull it taught. Then we pull out our handy dandy angle finder and place it against the first string and find 38 degrees on our angle finder. We then run a second line out 30 ft from the 38 degree point and there you have it. An accurate 38 degree angle.
This is of course a VERY basic example of how this could be done and I'm sure the guys that do this all the time, have come up with a much more efficient system.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 09:34 AM
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This may be off topic but its still on the catergory '"crop circles" and am saying this because i think there is a complex message behind any unexplained crop circle...

I beileve there is a striking resemblence between the fibonacci ratio and this crop circle found near stonehenge...




and





This is what fibonacci ratio is about...
goldennumber.net...

Now funny enough the Fibonacci pattern is based on nature and in that last link its shows a galaxy with the pattern and i just think that something out there is trying to tell us there from some galaxy or just trying to say were from space. It's there way of communicating? Maybe.


[edit on 26-7-2009 by jonnyc55]



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 

So the removal of said stake leaves a disturbance in the ground a blind man can find.Hammering it in makes noise.All this angle finding at night with watchers not seeing flashlights.The uneven terrain makes an ellipse if you use a compass type trammel.Thanks for playing,Try again.
PS The art here is one of high risk.Not of being caught,my point,but of risk of imperfection.Try drawing a straight line on paper.We can visualize a straight line,but can you draw one?Few can.The longer,the harder.If you were able to draw a straight line,then draw one intersecting the first at a specific angle.Much harder.The risk of imperfection increases exponentially with each added element.And this is just drawing.To make crop art work involves astronomical odds against the sort of perfection we see again and again.Each element,whether it is perfect circles,perfect spacing,identical sized circles,perfect angles,perfectly straight lines add up(square up actually as the thing is exponential)to the impossible realm of odds against.Then you multiply by the number of perfect examples(None imperfect yet)Then multiply in the way they fit like jigsaw puzzle pieces...You postulate it is possible...DO IT.I mean,draw it on paper free hand.You can't.Until you can draw one perfectly quit saying they can make these.Doug and Dave on a donkey.My ass.

[edit on 26-7-2009 by trueforger]



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by trueforger
reply to post by jfj123
 

So the removal of said stake leaves a disturbance in the ground a blind man can find.

You're just not reading my posts. In any case I KNEW you'd say that so let me repost what I posted earlier

For the purpose of visualization ONLY, we will go ahead and pound a 8 ft pike into the ground.

1. Notice I said for visualization only?????
2. Let's go ahead and say that we use a stake. Nobody would find the small hole in a huge field and if they wanted to be sneaky, all they'd need to do is cover it over. Use some common sense man !


Hammering it in makes noise.

Who's going to hear? the field mice?
They could use a rubber mallet.
They could just force it into the ground.
They could use a screw based stake.
ETC....


All this angle finding at night with watchers not seeing flashlights.

Who is going to see the flashlights? It's in the middle of a field of 5 ft tall wheat remember?


The uneven terrain makes an ellipse if you use a compass type trammel.Thanks for playing,Try again.

The terrain is irrelevant to the string that comes off the stake unless you follow the terrain and keep the string parallel with it. I've done this many a time to lay out straight lines for a building and terrain has ZERO effect on what I'm describing.
Look, I'm a licensed builder so I know what I'm talking about and you obviously don't.

Still waiting for you to prove that the crop circles are exact. This is at least the third time I've asked you to back up your claim.



[edit on 26-7-2009 by jfj123]



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 

It is just not true you can pound a stake in hard ground that has had nothing but a tractor on it,remove it and cover it up so it goes away.Ever hear of hardpan?Tractors compress the soil,when dug or disturbed that compressed soil expands to sometimes twice the previous volume.Especially if there is moisture present.You don't farm,that is obvious.I do know exactly what I am talking about,been there done that.A twenty foot straight line hardly compares to a 50 footer in a field at night.First thing you do on jobsite when snapping a line is remove obstructions,so in a 5 foot tall field,how?Screw in base leaves a huge hole or disturbance.These fields are staked out.The utter perfection of the circles is so plainly evident I don't know how to even address your point.Try again PS these fields are now staked out pretty closely.Ever since the mad cow the farmer is under more scrutiny than ever,not just by the gov't but by neighbors who are watching out for their own livelihood which tends to get compromised if the neighbor is moving cattle around at night and an outbreak happens and all the cattle in the area get destroyed because of lack of documentation.That is what the numbers on the ear tags are for..And remember these are happening in sight of Milk Hill,a world historical site.I'd guess there is security from vandals and IRA and Al-CIAda. and Alien hunters


[edit on 26-7-2009 by trueforger]

[edit on 26-7-2009 by trueforger]



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by trueforger
Try drawing a straight line on paper.We can visualize a straight line,but can you draw one?

Yes I can very easily with a ruler.


Few can.The longer,the harder.

You just get a longer ruler.

Also, obviously you're claiming that the lines in crop circles are perfectly straight. I've asked you 4 times now to back up that statement and you haven't so at this point,

******FALSE CLAIM NOTICE BY TRUEFORGER POSTER******
YOUR CLAIM MUST BE CONSIDERED FALSE AND MISLEADING,
that the crop circle lines are EXACTINGLY straight as you've refused over and over to provide ANY evidence to suggest your claims are even remotely true.


If you were able to draw a straight line,then draw one intersecting the first at a specific angle.Much harder.

Not at all. All I need is a ruler and angle finder. I could do this in the dark



The risk of imperfection increases exponentially with each added element.

INVALID POINT as you refuse to PROVE that crop circles are perfect.


And this is just drawing.

I don't see a problem so far.


To make crop art work involves astronomical odds against the sort of perfection we see again and again.

FALSE.
You haven't proven that ANY crop circle has been perfectly done.


Each element,whether it is perfect circles,perfect spacing,identical sized circles,perfect angles,perfectly straight lines add up(square up actually as the thing is exponential)to the impossible realm of odds against.

INVALID ARGUMENT AGAIN. See above for same reasoning.


Then you multiply by the number of perfect examples(None imperfect yet)Then multiply in the way they fit like jigsaw puzzle pieces...You postulate it is possible...DO IT

another INVALID ARGUMENT. See above for details.


.I mean,draw it on paper free hand.

There is no reason to draw anything free hand. The people who have actually identified themselves as crop circle makers did not do anything free hand so there's no reason I should.


You can't.Until you can draw one perfectly quit saying they can make these.Doug and Dave on a donkey.My ass.

[edit on 26-7-2009 by trueforger]

Until you can prove any of the crop circles were PERFECT, quit saying they are perfect.
You can't back up anything you're saying but I can give you real world examples regarding how this can be done.
YOU LOSE !

[edit on 26-7-2009 by jfj123]



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by trueforger
reply to post by jfj123
 

It is just not true you can pound a stake in hard ground that has had nothing but a tractor on it,remove it and cover it up so it goes away.

If the ground were actually that hard, wheat wouldn't grow there. I could EASILY pound in 1/4" rerod into the ground using a block and rubber mallet, pull it out and fill in the tiny hole and nobody would ever see it.


Ever hear of hardpan?Tractors compress the soil,when dug or disturbed that compressed soil expands to sometimes twice the previous volume.Especially if there is moisture present.You don't farm,that is obvious.

No I build houses on many different types of material including hard soil and I know from actually pounding stakes into the ground that this can be done.


I do know exactly what I am talking about,

NOPE.


A twenty foot straight line hardly compares to a 50 footer

I believe I said 30 ft but the idea still holds for a 50 ft line.


in a field at night.First thing you do on jobsite when snapping a line is remove obstructions,

Unless you're just staking off property boundaries.
Or to prep for back filling of the property.


These fields are staked out.

OK if you can prove EVERY ONE of these fields is staked out, I'll go ahead and believe you. Post your proof.


The utter perfection of the circles is so plainly evident I don't know how to even address your point.

Then I'll tell you. Provide the math showing they're perfect. You know, someone goes out with a laser and measures the PERFECTION of the crop circle. Please post the results.


Try again PS these fields are now staked out pretty closely.

Prove all of them are staked out pretty closely.
Also prove that the farmers themselves aren't in on it.


Ever since the mad cow the farmer is under more scrutiny than ever,not just by the gov't but by neighbors who are watching out for their own livelihood which tends to get compromised

Compromised to the point where they may need an additional source of income??? Say from tourists who want to look at crop circles? I think you just found your own solution to the question as to who is making the crop circles and why
Good job



if the neighbor is moving cattle around at night and an outbreak happens and all the cattle in the area get destroyed because of lack of documentation.

That would be awfull !! But the bills still come in even if the cattle are destroyed. How could a resourceful rancher possibly come up with another way to make some money ??? hmmmmmm....let's think about it???
I know ! Maybe if they made a crop circle and leaked it, gullable people would come out and pay them money to fly over and/or walk through it.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 

OMG are you talking micrometer straight?If a respected expert at mensuration were to mike the circles and one was 1/4 inch off would that count?I'm jackhammering a foundation right now and working against the grain in sandstone.The grain means that I will never be able to duplicate a granite datum plate,I'll be satisfied with a two inch deviation and call that perfect.It's as good as can be done with this mtrl.Your talk of get a longer ruler precludes absolute perfection just due to flex or expansion.This isn't an argument,it is a quarrel.I'm reasoning.When I say perfect,I am in agreement with the vast consensus.When you question the term in general use as some sort of flaw of reason or fraud,you're barking,but there ain't no tree.PS Can you agree about anything?


[edit on 26-7-2009 by trueforger]



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by trueforger
reply to post by jfj123
 

OMG are you talking micrometer straight?

You're the one making the crop circles sound like their completely perfect. You use the word enough so I assume you mean what you're saying.


Your talk of get a longer ruler precludes absolute perfection just due to flex or expansion.

Well if you can prove the crop circles are absolute perfection and you believe that longer rulers preclude absolute perfection due to flex or expansion (rulers don't expand unless substantially heated), then you can prove I'm wrong



This isn't an argument,it is a quarrel.I'm reasoning.When I say perfect,I am in agreement with the vast consensus.

You can't call something perfect if it is not perfect. You don't even know if the crop circles are even close to perfect as you can't provide any scientific measures to back up your claims. The only thing that we can assume from this is that you're simply parroting information you've heard elsewhere which also has no scientific basis.


When you question the term in general use as some sort of flaw of reason or fraud,you're barking,but there ain't no tree.PS Can you agree about anything?

define:perfect-precisely accurate or exact
Is there any evidence regarding the crop circles supposed precision ? YES or NO ?
If you have no evidence, you don't know that they're even close to being precisely created.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


There's apparently always room for more interpretation. If we also compared a few other recent crop circles, the outside figures could represent an insect with wings, such as a mosquito and spreading diesease. Mythical gods and angels as humaniods with wings.

The inner circle may show a standing figure and a sitting figure.Or Buddahs. The triangle might also represent a triangular craft. There's been several stone carvings of alien looking beings.

www.youtube.com...

0:52 Tikki Viracocha figure with hands pointing together.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


They used the method I am talking about, only slower, with sound.

www.newscientist.com...

Also that last point was not directed at you.


But still, you're beginning to sound a bit arrogant and child-like. I have proven it many times, but you know, the funny thing about debate and conversation is that you, side B, have to respond. you know? Saying prove it over and over again does not invalidate what I've told you. If you would enjoy saying how I'm wrong, that would be great.

My logic is still sound, and you simple say "nope", as if by your voice, it is automatically wrong. Well. Why?



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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For those who say the circle in the OP could not have been constructed by humans at night and without laying out the circle with surveying tools during the daylight, I took it upon myself to see if I could "describe" the construction of this circle without using modern surveying tools.

The only tools I would need to have when using the below instructions are stakes, hammers, rope, tape measure, flashlights, and a pre-assembled "L" shaped tool for measuring angles -- like a carpenter's square.

This L-shaped tool will could be made of two pieces of lumber joined together. One "leg" would be 5 feet long, and the other leg would be 2'-10 5/8" long. The angles made by the hypotenuse of this "L" would be 30 degrees and 60 degrees -- which you will see are the only angles needed to construct this circle.

I have no idea on the size of the crew required (I have no experience making circles) but I would think that 3 crews or 3 people each could easily construct the "outside spokes", while 3 crews of 2 could make the "inside hub designs". That's 15 people, and I think that is a very liberal number. I bet it could be done with 10 to 12 people (or perhaps fewer, depending on their experience).

Anyway, here's what I came up with. The sizes and lengths I used may be a off from the real thing, but the geometry is still the same...Remember, I have never designed a crop circle in my life, so I'm completely guessing on the procedure.

Only the tools I mentioned above are required, and all of the measurements using these simple tools can all be tied back to one starting point.

My attempt at the Instructions for this crop circle:
Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
Page 4
Page 5

I personally think a group of circle-makers (with a few "team leaders with circle-making experience) could make this circle in one night.


[edit on 7/26/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 

You pay me for my time and fare and I will go measure with a laser rangefinder.I have two and can compare to ensure accuracy to within a 1/4 inch.We can go together and be a team,one with the laser and the other with a target.We both know plunb,right?You can pay the farmer,and can then say farmers get paid for these!

Fer sure.Can you afford me?I won't do it free.I don't need to prove nothing to nobody else in this regard.We have a consensus but one situation here,methinks,and the best thing is to move on.The only way to quantify perfection is,of course out of the question for us in the ten thousandths scale of accuracy and it might or might not be so.I would not be surprised either way,kind of a quantum indeterminacy thing.But the consensus stands,they're perfect and anyone who gos off the rails by questioning that MIGHT not be a paid per post unemployed carpenter troll who is ignoring a mountain to complain of the molehill,but...er ...well...I dunno.

Anyone else seriously question the consensus that these are perfect within any reasonable definition of the word when applied at this scale?I think they're better than 99% so.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 12:29 PM
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For those of you arguing the circles after the fact, anyone can copy what's already there - I'd like to see their drawings before they go do it - so that argument to me is moot - also anyone after the fact can "claim ownership" of the circle without proving they had anything to do with it -

Are you guys arguing against the crop circles authenticity (as in not created by hoaxers) relying on the argument that anyone can go in and do this with a string and some stakes? I couldn't disagree with that either - but it doesn't prove who made them and even more important who created the pattern and what does it mean. These aren't just ordinary patterns that can be found anywhere - they're mathematical to a degree far beyond my imagination and I'm betting yours too.... so who created the pattern, hmmm?

I hope you guys realize there's a lot of lies floating around out there - the MSM being one of the biggest ones.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 

Now THIS is the best effort I have ever seen to try to get some schematics and a plan.The angles look a little fishy towards the end,but no matter,it's cool.

The reason my challenge is to do it freehand drawing is because of all the elements of risk involved with actual fake CC making.There is the darkness,wind to deflect lines,rain to affect length(sag or stretch,depending)plumb from line in hand to plank afoot,accuracy of the pivot holder as to plumb.I figured these,freehand drawing and free hand holding of knotted twine would be approximal,accounting for difference in scale.

So a computer guided and perfected image such as this would equate to an apparatus afield having much more rigidity/accuracy to be correct to scale.Like an actual template.And that is impossible.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by kshaund
 

Are you trying to say that because the design uses mathematical ratios that it probably wasn't created by a human?

This is simply not true. Architects, artists, and graphic designers often use mathematical ratios in their designs. They have learned that people find designs that use certain ratios of scale to be the most "pleasing" to humans, therefore designers and architects often use mathematical ratios to create their designs. Architects, artists, and graphic designers usually have an eye for these ratios of scale, knowing what looks "right" and what doesn't.

Their is nothing "inherently alien" about a design that is mathematically pleasing -- in fact it's a very human thing.

I think a human artist could have easily designed this crop circle -- mathematical ratios and all.


[edit on 7/26/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]



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