Further proof UA93 didn't bury, media skipped it

Originally posted by CameronFox

Originally posted by Seventh
There`s a flight recorder there, that`s normally more than enough evidence, maybe ask the powers that be to release all the audio from it, or shall we file this request in the..... Unreleased but could prove the OS story 100% correct, if only it existed, like the 85 videos from the pentagon etc etc evidence folder.

FDR's do not have Audio. The "D" in FDR stands for data. It was, in fact, released several years ago. The data from the FDR was released.

If, by chance you are talking about the CVR (cockpit voice recorder) the transcript for that was released to the public. The actual recording was played for the victims families several years ago.

FDR info can be found here: www.ntsb.gov...

The FDR Graph is here: www.gwu.edu...

CVR transcript can be found here: www.vaed.uscourts.gov...

please post a link that proves the recording was ACTUAL and REAL.

please post a link proving it was played to all families and who all these families are.

and then please post a link proving all the families were real.

Its beyond obvious what your role here is cam...you defend the perps and MSM and cherry pick what evidence and debates you join. Imo you're no better than the perps themselves for all the obfuscation, double talk and confusion you perpetuate that contributes to one of the reasons why they haven't been brought to justice yet.

Originally posted by CameronFox
reply to post by ATH911

 

Some of Flight 93 ended up underground. I do not know how much. Nor do you.

I concede nothing.

Now, please tell me what you think happened to Flight 93.

Officials claimed that they "found" MOST of Flight 93 buried deep under ground and it hadn't mostly disintegrated after it allegedly crashed as all the first witnesses who arrived at the scene had assumed from the lack of a large plane they were told that had supposedly crashed there.

So whats your point again?

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar
I notice all the usual suspects are here, battling it out, taunting each other, hashing over the same old, tired arguments from literally years past. Let me clue you in: you're wasting time in a fruitless endeavor. Meaning, if your planning on doing something with your "evidence", then stop wasting time on internet forums. You're not going to convince anyone, either way. There are no “fence sitters” at this point. All of the information, from both sides is amply available to anyone who even makes the slightest effort to look. If you don't unplug and take the fight to the street so-to-speak you're just blowing hot air on an internet forum; as has been done for years now. It's a vicious trap, really.

Its posts like that which motivate real truther seekers like myself to keep HASHING AND REHASHING, GOING OVER THE EVIDENCE TIME AND TIME AGAIN, AND SIMPLY REPEATING IT AD NASEUM because thats how many times, NEW DISCOVERIES are made and revelations come to light... If your advice were to be heeded back in the early days of 911 when much wasn't understood or known about, much of the evidence and anomalies that are now known to be irrefutable fact or at least important to examine, might not have been discovered.

There's tons of people out there who have never seen these discussions, so that alone is worth rehashing old material OVER AND OVER.

I myself never realized how deep this rabbit hole went... and it was only by me coming across someone rehashing an old thread that LED me to NEW INFORMATION and discoveries which helped me overcome my own skepticism. I originally saw one or two conspiracy theories about 911 that seemed crazy and impossible, yet the more i researched, the more i realized they weren't as crazy as i thought and most wanted to believe. 9/11 is a big PUZZLE... and people like you want to thrown pieces of the puzzle away which is a disservice to what TRUTH SEEKING is about.

I'll go even further to say "Advice" or comments like yours is an insult to those who were MURDERED on 911 and the BILLIONS of others that have and will forever be affected by the EVIL perpetrated on 911 by the US GOVERNMENT.

So imo, the other EVIL comes from those with a mindset such as yours who contribute to WHY EVIL flourishes to begin with and why those who perpetrated 911 may never be brought to justice.

Since there is SO MUCH material and questions about 911 out there, to say the discussion of it all should end no matter how stupid it might be IN YOUR OPINION, even in little forums like this, IS ABSURD and borderline FASCIST.

Who are you to say or know that one area is less important than another?
Who are you to restrict any discussion or determine whats WORTH or not?, especially areas that have never been adequately answered or explained with any rational logic or conclusive evidence?

How do you know a discussion you deem to be a waste of time and rehashed to death, might not lead to a new thought or discovery etc?

Are you really this ignorant? Or are you just a troll trying to derail intelligent discourse?


[edit on 5-9-2009 by Orion7911]

Great Post Orion7911,
I totally agree with your statements and sentiment.
I have undertaken my own journey for truth after finally seeing the abhorent lies and rehearsed political rhetoric that spews out of our daily media.
I only started looking at 9/11 around February this year, this was after I tried to sit and educate myself as to the workings of The British Parliamentary system, of which the BBC broadcasts daily footage of debates and discussion taking place within the Houses of Parliament. Well even with my relatively elementary education it did not take me long to notice there was never a proper debate in which our Mp`s thrashed out their differing opinions until satisfied they have all agreed on common ground. No what you get is a prepared speech on the chosen topic, and occassionally you may get a counter argument but at no discussion did I ever see a flat out plain result in favour or against anything.
Then the discussion is prematurely abandoned and more often than not you don`t see or hear any further discussion or counter on the topic, and they move onto something entirely different. After that the magical and secret voting takes place.
Apologies for that long intro but it really upsets me, watching the government protectionalists, as seen in this thread, try and categorize people looking for answers as simple idiotic conspiracy nutjobs.
If people want answers to why they dont believe a plane burried itself underground then they should be free to discuss it and post on forums ad nauseam should they chose. What other source outlets are there, the media are mostly all bought and paid for puppets forcing the propaganda onto the unsuspecting sleeping masses.
Have you govt supporters even considered the failings of the Freedom of Information service, the denying of the MAJORITY of evidence from the 9/11 crime scenes, yeah some free and fair society you live in.
FOI requests wait for months and even years only yo be told, sorry that information has been misplaced. Or lost. Or is part of an ongoing investigation.

Well guess what, these forums hold some of the sharpest minds out there, so put the real evidence out there and you can be sure the internet brains will pick it to pieces and reveal the truth.

Oh by the way, the first thing that made me realise that 9/11 is a goverment disgrace was when I saw, I mean really watched the Towers go down. As an engineer who has worked with steels for 30 years, I knew that that collapse was so manufactured. The method of destruction so perfectly devised they did it - twice -
How they did it, well I`m here to try find out, because i really want to know.

thanks and well said yourself.

Rehashing is an important method in truth seeking.

how many times do scientists or engineers go over, discuss and/or REFINE their plans and ideas before they come to a conclusion or make a new discovery?

I can attest to the fact that before i accepted or understood the truth of what I was watching on tv as the footage of the towers going down OVER AND OVER and heard truthers talking ad naseum about anomalies and contradictions to the OS which for a while never really sunk in... but then there was that light bulb moment when everything clicked and i'm like DUH... wtf,,, its been right there in front of me all along or what was being rehashed finally sunk in the more I was forced to confront and HEAR the evidence being beaten into my brain... I was initially resistant to alot of it and it didn't make sense until i did more research and was challenged to PROVE what I had believed to be truth by the MSM and government.

I've explained this experience before as being apart of the LAW OF FREQUENCY.

The revelations and material surrounding 9/11 are for the most part on a very high frequency, and if your thought level or mindset isn't advanced enough or tuned to such high processes, you won't understand or be able to SEE these truths and discoveries... the lightbulb experience occurs when your frequency is equal to that of what you're trying to understand.

LAW OF FREQUENCY.

its a universal law that can be applied in nearly every aspect of life.

the anomalies etc of 9/11 are no exception.

So rehashing 9/11 is going to be the best chance to help wake up the masses more and more.

Its already happening thanks to "rehashing"!

Originally posted by CannotGoHome
Great Post Orion7911,
I totally agree with your statements and sentiment.
I have undertaken my own journey for truth after finally seeing the abhorent lies and rehearsed political rhetoric that spews out of our daily media.
I only started looking at 9/11 around February this year, this was after I tried to sit and educate myself as to the workings of The British Parliamentary system, of which the BBC broadcasts daily footage of debates and discussion taking place within the Houses of Parliament. Well even with my relatively elementary education it did not take me long to notice there was never a proper debate in which our Mp`s thrashed out their differing opinions until satisfied they have all agreed on common ground. No what you get is a prepared speech on the chosen topic, and occassionally you may get a counter argument but at no discussion did I ever see a flat out plain result in favour or against anything.
Then the discussion is prematurely abandoned and more often than not you don`t see or hear any further discussion or counter on the topic, and they move onto something entirely different. After that the magical and secret voting takes place.
Apologies for that long intro but it really upsets me, watching the government protectionalists, as seen in this thread, try and categorize people looking for answers as simple idiotic conspiracy nutjobs.
If people want answers to why they dont believe a plane burried itself underground then they should be free to discuss it and post on forums ad nauseam should they chose. What other source outlets are there, the media are mostly all bought and paid for puppets forcing the propaganda onto the unsuspecting sleeping masses.
Have you govt supporters even considered the failings of the Freedom of Information service, the denying of the MAJORITY of evidence from the 9/11 crime scenes, yeah some free and fair society you live in.
FOI requests wait for months and even years only yo be told, sorry that information has been misplaced. Or lost. Or is part of an ongoing investigation.

Well guess what, these forums hold some of the sharpest minds out there, so put the real evidence out there and you can be sure the internet brains will pick it to pieces and reveal the truth.

Oh by the way, the first thing that made me realise that 9/11 is a goverment disgrace was when I saw, I mean really watched the Towers go down. As an engineer who has worked with steels for 30 years, I knew that that collapse was so manufactured. The method of destruction so perfectly devised they did it - twice -
How they did it, well I`m here to try find out, because i really want to know.

reply to post by Orion7911


I think there are psychological terms for what you are describing, but it is not the "law of frequency". Even though it could be said if you "frequent" conspiracy websites enough eventually you may be infected.

So hooper, what % of Flight 93 do you think had gotten buried? What % do you think is seen in the crash scene photos before the cleanup started? How do you account that 95% was recovered seemingly out of nowhere?

Originally posted by ATH911
So hooper, what % of Flight 93 do you think had gotten buried? What % do you think is seen in the crash scene photos before the cleanup started? How do you account that 95% was recovered seemingly out of nowhere?

Buried? I don't know -say 30%, maybe more, maybe less. Hard to say. Hard to wonder why it is the least bit important, all these percentages. The crash scene photos that I have seen? Maybe another 40%, maybe more, maybe less. An FBI spokesperson commented to the press that about 95% of the physical remains were recoverered from the crash site. I really don't know what you mean by "how do I account for that"? I account for it by hundreds of good Americans searching the area diligently for a long period of time to recover the remains of the plane. I do not have photos of every dead body from the Holocaust either, but I don't go around claiming that I only saw the remains of 10,000 people and since I can't tell from the photos that they were Jewish I don't believe 6 million Jews died.

PS - I am not saying that you hold that belief either. Just historical comparison where all you are using as a basis is photos that were not taken expressely to prove a maxim.

Originally posted by hooper
Buried? I don't know -say 30%, maybe more, maybe less. Hard to say.

OK well whatever % you think was buried, please show the evidence to support the amount you think was buried.

Hard to wonder why it is the least bit important, all these percentages... An FBI spokesperson commented to the press that about 95% of the physical remains were recoverered from the crash site. I really don't know what you mean by "how do I account for that"?

I explained. FBI said 95% was recovered. I see only about 5% of a 757 above ground and NO real evidence anything sizable was buried. Do the math.

The crash scene photos that I have seen? Maybe another 40%, maybe more, maybe less.

Wow, could you circle the areas you think amounts to 40% of a 757?

I account for it by hundreds of good Americans searching the area diligently for a long period of time to recover the remains of the plane.

Just because some of the searches were good and diligent doesn't mean a 757 crashed and buried underground. How many searchers were involved with actually excavating the crater?

[edit on 8-9-2009 by ATH911]

After reviewing this whole thread and many other threads concerning flight 93 it is clear that a Boeing 757 did not crash in Shankville on 9.11.

It is quite conclusive even if some garden tool claims otherwise.

Do the research, review the pictures. No plane crashed in Shankville on September 11th.

reply to post by ATH911


Why do you aks for evidence after you ask over and over again for someone to render an opinion? That is what I think.

And no I am not going to sit here and put cirlces on a picture so you can then argue, ad infinitum, about which little speck is a piece of airplane and which little specks is not and how big each speck is and how much it weighs and where it came from and where is my evidence, etc, etc, etc.

The FBI said they recovered about 95% of the plane. YOU said there was an official report that claimed 80% was buried.

Can you plese at least admit that there is no such report, never was such a report and all your numbers are based solely on your opinions.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by ATH911

 

Why do you aks for evidence after you ask over and over again for someone to render an opinion? That is what I think.

So you are offering an opinion with no evidence to support it?

And no I am not going to sit here and put cirlces on a picture so you can then argue, ad infinitum, about which little speck is a piece of airplane and which little specks is not and how big each speck is and how much it weighs and where it came from and where is my evidence, etc, etc, etc.

Sounds like you're not confident about your beliefs!

The FBI said they recovered about 95% of the plane.

Too bad there is no evidence to support that incredible claim!

YOU said there was an official report that claimed 80% was buried. Can you plese at least admit that there is no such report, never was such a report and all your numbers are based solely on your opinions.

No, I said that was the official CLAIM. I never said there was some document stating that. Was there ever an official document produced about the crash details of Flight 93?!

[edit on 12-9-2009 by ATH911]

I think it's fair to say no plane was buried in Shanksville because the media never reported it when it was supposedly discovered underground and the one photo of the engine piece looking to be dug out of the ground is consistent with being staged because it's the only photo of wreckage supposedly being dug out of the ground when most of the plane was supposedly buried and the engine piece is near the surface, is not caked with dirt, and is small enough to have been planted by being lowered into the partially excavated crater by excavator's bucket that's right next to it in the same photo.



[edit on 29-9-2009 by ATH911]

Originally posted by ATH911
I think it's fair to say no plane was buried in Shanksville because the media never reported it when it was supposedly discovered underground and the one photo of the engine piece looking to be dug out of the ground is consistent with being staged because it's the only photo of wreckage supposedly being dug out of the ground when most of the plane was supposedly buried and the engine piece is near the surface, is not caked with dirt, and is small enough to have been planted by being lowered into the partially excavated crater by excavator's bucket that's right next to it in the same photo.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by ATH911]

Again, and again, and again - please provide some basis for your contention that there is any official document that indictes the plane was discovered undergorund. It is one thing to not believe some actual article that was published, but you are basically arguing with yourself, because as far as I can tell you are the only one that is saying the plane was buried. The media didn't report "it" becuase "it" does not exist.

As for the excavator and the plane part and the observation that it fit conveintly in the bucket- that is kind of like saying "why are my keys always in the last place I look".

Originally posted by hooper
Again, and again, and again - please provide some basis for your contention that there is any official document that indictes the plane was discovered undergorund.

Please point where I ever said there was an "official document." If you can't, please retract your lie that I said there was.

It is one thing to not believe some actual article that was published, but you are basically arguing with yourself, because as far as I can tell you are the only one that is saying the plane was buried.

Then you haven't looked very well because the official story is most of the plane buried. 80% is the claim.

The media didn't report "it" becuase "it" does not exist.

They didn't report it when it was supposedly discovered, only months and years later which means they were told something that didn't happen.

As for the excavator and the plane part and the observation that it fit conveintly in the bucket- that is kind of like saying "why are my keys always in the last place I look".

That's the dumbest analogy I've ever heard.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by ATH911]

reply to post by star in a jar


How do the "debunkers" handle this notion that the plane buried itself under the ground at impact? That's absurd!

Edit: And if it was NOT buried underground, then where was it?

[edit on 29-9-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
reply to post by star in a jar

 

How do the "debunkers" handle this notion that the plane buried itself under the ground at impact? That's absurd!

Edit: And if it was NOT buried underground, then where was it?

[edit on 29-9-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Who, please who, said the plane was buried? I am sure pieces of that plane were embedded in the ground, but to my knowledge, the only people claiming that the plane was buried are the same ones asking for proof that it was buried. And acting incredulous when no proof of THEIR conjecture is forthcoming.

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by hooper
Again, and again, and again - please provide some basis for your contention that there is any official document that indictes the plane was discovered undergorund.

Please point where I ever said there was an "official document." If you can't, please retract your lie that I said there was.

It is one thing to not believe some actual article that was published, but you are basically arguing with yourself, because as far as I can tell you are the only one that is saying the plane was buried.

Then you haven't looked very well because the official story is most of the plane buried. 80% is the claim.

The media didn't report "it" becuase "it" does not exist.

They didn't report it when it was supposedly discovered, only months and years later which means they were told something that didn't happen.

As for the excavator and the plane part and the observation that it fit conveintly in the bucket- that is kind of like saying "why are my keys always in the last place I look".

That's the dumbest analogy I've ever heard.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by ATH911]

Please refer to your post of 6-8-2009. I repeatedly ask for official documents and you replied that you would "dig for it". Based on that am I still a liar? You refered to it repeatedly as the "official claim" and I repeatedly asked for some documentation.

Originally posted by hooper
Who, please who, said the plane was buried? I am sure pieces of that plane were embedded in the ground, but to my knowledge, the only people claiming that the plane was buried are the same ones asking for proof that it was buried. And acting incredulous when no proof of THEIR conjecture is forthcoming.

Um, did you even check the link I included in my OP? I know checking links are tricky for some people.

reply to post by hooper


Ok fine - then WHERE WAS THE PLANE WRECKAGE?