Originally posted by hooper
No, why would I agree or even disagree with anything? And when and how did it become a "shallow" crater? Based on what standard for craters? How deep should it be or not be? And what do you mean "under" the crater? If some of the material of the plane is mixed in with the displaced earth does this qualify or not qualify as "buried"?

I just want to know if you think a claim of 80% of a 757 being buried under that 10ft-deep (i.e. shallow) crater (meaning they have to dig down through the crater) is absurd or not. It's just a simple question. Not sure why you seem to be avoiding it at all costs.

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by hooper
No, why would I agree or even disagree with anything? And when and how did it become a "shallow" crater? Based on what standard for craters? How deep should it be or not be? And what do you mean "under" the crater? If some of the material of the plane is mixed in with the displaced earth does this qualify or not qualify as "buried"?

I just want to know if you think a claim of 80% of a 757 being buried under that 10ft-deep (i.e. shallow) crater (meaning they have to dig down through the crater) is absurd or not. It's just a simple question. Not sure why you seem to be avoiding it at all costs.

No

Originally posted by hooper
No

So if you don't think it's absurd, then if 80% of Flight 93 buried itself underground, isn't it logical that most of the passengers buried down with the plane wreckage too?

Originally posted by ATH911
How can that be? Flight 77 crashed into a fortified building and burned up to hardly anything, yet its passengers bodies remained intact, but Flight 93 nose-dived it soft ground and mostly buried itself with 95% of the plane supposedly being recovered, but it shredded its passengers to a mere 8% of total mass? Even YOU can't believe that!

And therein lies the problem....you have some faulty beliefs. Flight 77 crashed into a building that is true. However, only the exterior wall had been hardened, even still, it was about a foot thick. Its course continued on for quite a while, around 300 feet. Flight 93 crammed itself into a hole less than the length of its fuselage. Flight 77 pentrated through maybe a cumulative 18 feet of actual walls, punch through one wall....continue to the next, punch through it...on to the next till it stopped 300 feet from the intial impact. Flight 93, although it crashed into "soft" dirt, encountered a hell of a lot more resistance and did much more destruction to the human beings on board.

If you cannot understand that the forces that acted upon the bodies of the passengers, crews and hijackers of flight 77 were much less than those of Flight 93, then it is pointless to continue the conversation. Then the mistaken belief that the majority of Flight 77 burned up. It left quite a bit of wreckage in the building, in the courtyard, on the lawn, on the freeway...etc....

I posted some of these pics earlier. They seemed to be glossed over. The Iranian plane crash was indeed a real plane crash.

Flight 93 or a boeing 757 did not crash on 911. To stage such an event would not be difficult at all. To sell it? Easy, we l'l buy anything.

Here are some of the pictures from a real plane crash that crashed in a similar fashion as flight 93.

Do not argue intent. Someones intention should not effect the laws of physics.










Now here is flight 93 that 'crashed' in Shanksville Pen. on September 11th,2001.


Quite obvious that a boeing 757 did not crash there.

[edit on 8-8-2009 by CaptainAmerica2012]

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by hooper
No

So if you don't think it's absurd, then if 80% of Flight 93 buried itself underground, isn't it logical that most of the passengers buried down with the plane wreckage too?

Wow, that is as about as far from logical as you can get. Really, that is so way out there that I can't even find a point of reference to begin to try to guide you back from that delusion.

Well, I'll give it a try but you've got to make some effort.

First, you have to really let go of this "buried" fantasy. Somehow or another you have it in your mind that somebody in the government told you that the plane was buried under the crater. I think you may have gotten lost in your own semantical maze. You probably heard some first responder or law enforcement personnel make an off hand comment about how some of the material from the plane was buried. Now, buried could and does mean a lot of things, depending on the situation and the person speaking. If a building collapses and there is someone trapped under the rubble someone could say the person was "buried" and not necassarily mean that somebody dug a hole and then threw in the person and the rubble. In fact, buried is more often used as a word to connote "covered" as opposed to a process including excavation and backfill.

Are we getting somehere here?

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
If you cannot understand that the forces that acted upon the bodies of the passengers, crews and hijackers of flight 77 were much less than those of Flight 93, then it is pointless to continue the conversation.

Flight 77 supposedly collided with a dozen concrete fortified columns inside and the plane supposedly "liquefied," but yet the passengers bodies remained intact.



But this is getting off-topic. I brought it up to make the point below.

Flight 93, although it crashed into "soft" dirt, encountered a hell of a lot more resistance and did much more destruction to the human beings on board.

Regardless, you do concede that most of the passenger remains should be down in the "hole" with where most of UA93 supposedly was?

Flight 93 crammed itself into a hole less than the length of its fuselage.

And we are still awaiting your extraordinary proof of that!

Originally posted by hooper
First, you have to really let go of this "buried" fantasy. Somehow or another you have it in your mind that somebody in the government told you that the plane was buried under the crater. I think you may have gotten lost in your own semantical maze.

So let me get this straight, you now say you think it's absurd that most of Flight 93 buried itself under that shallow crater?

I do not know where the moronic idea came from that the plane liquified. And it has never been mentioned that the bodies were all found intact.

I'm still waiting for a rational explanation from the skeptics as to why the media did not report when most of the plane was "found" buried underground.

The ONLY rational explanation I can think of is the reason the media didn't report it when the plane was supposedly found buried is because the plane was never buried, so the media was never told the plane was found buried when it was supposedly found buried.

I notice all the usual suspects are here, battling it out, taunting each other, hashing over the same old, tired arguments from literally years past. Let me clue you in: you're wasting time in a fruitless endeavor. Meaning, if your planning on doing something with your "evidence", then stop wasting time on internet forums. You're not going to convince anyone, either way. There are no “fence sitters” at this point. All of the information, from both sides is amply available to anyone who even makes the slightest effort to look. If you don't unplug and take the fight to the street so-to-speak you're just blowing hot air on an internet forum; as has been done for years now. Don't get me wrong, IMHO you're entitled to any opinion you want. Contrary to those carrying the torch, I don't have a dog in this fight.

My point is only this: if you posses the convictions of your professed beliefs, do something other than parrot your thoughts back and forth to those that already agree with you. Take your message mainstream. Get noticed. You're (the royal you) lying to yourself if you think the tit-for-tat ad naseum arguments on this sub forum are moving the goal post(s) either way.

Then again, perhaps the mainstream thing has been tried before and what we are left with are the same small group of actors, saying much the same things they were almost eight years ago, on a conspiracy forum, on the internet.

It's a vicious trap, really.

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar
I don't owe you one.

You don't owe me a rational explanation, or you can't think of a rational explanation as to why the media didn't report it when most of the plane was "found" underground?

Don't worry, I can't think of a rational explanation either.