The answer to rising CO2 levels and an end to global warming.

Originally posted by Animal

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

You miss the point friend. It is meant to be distasteful and politically incorrect, but at the same time no more suicidal than the notion that by being eco-minded humankind may somehow endure.

So your saying your proposal is crap and not meant to be any type of solution at all?

Where as it is your opinion that being 'eco-minded' which i imagine is a critique of the sustainability movement. An opinion i find to be so incredibly simple in that it lacks any true critique beyond making a statement which means nothing

Do you deny that we live in a doomed ecosystem?

Yes I do. While I would agree we live in an endangered ecosystem I see no reason to believe that it is beyond repair, to some reasonable degree.

Your mindset says humans will not endure, but we will live in harmony with nature until the end.

No, and I never made any comment to make you think that did i?

Ahh, its such a sweet ideal you have friend.

What, hope based on logic?

98% of all species that have ever existed on Earth are now extinct. I leave it to you to guess why. We live in a doomed ecosystem 100% guaranteed. It’s not a matter of if but rather when and how it meet its demise. The chances that humankind may somehow endure are like those of the mega lottery anyhow, so I guess your right friend. How could humankind survive, in your reasoning? In mine I see only one option and that involves a trillion people and the ability to put Earth to work for the single purpose of supporting human life.

reply to post by Wertdagf


You're right.

And, you know, humans are the only species with the intelligence to overcome all natural efforts to maintain balance with them on earth. We survive natural disasters. We fight against disease. We lock up or shoot our predators.

I hate humans. I really do. I don't just say it for fun, I really mean it.

We're not evolutionarily perfect. We're evolutionarily flawed.

Whenever man has attempted to change nature it has been a disaster.

What we should be doing is a massive restoration project.

For every tree cut down for our use one must be planted. Not necessarily in the same place. Homeowners should be required to plant suitable trees and bushes. No more gravel lawns.

Legalizing Hemp would improve a lot of things. For one ten times more fuel can be produced from an acre of Hemp than from an acre of corn.
So we have a big winner in the energy department.

Auto makers really could produce a carburator that does much better.
The don't do it on purpose as Auto corps & oil corps are faithfully wed.

We could do with fewer people and thus fewer food animals.....we all exhale CO2.

We do need to save the whales, and the porpoises and all the fish. We ar fishing the Ocean out; a self defeating act.

We need to develop a better sewage disposal system and stop dumping anything and everything into those Oceans and other waterways.

That Aswan dam should come down. It is the cause of the death of the Plankton at the mouth of the Nile and subsequently the death of food fish that feed on the Plankton. Another case of man interfering with nature to his own detriment.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Its a natural progression of evolution... could you see a lifeform NOT going though these trials as it grows in understanding? Im sure if cute fluffy bunnies got 5 feet taller and had large brains they would be going to the moon and dropping Atom bombs.

Dont hate the player hate the game.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by Wertdagf

 

You're right.

And, you know, humans are the only species with the intelligence to overcome all natural efforts to maintain balance with them on earth. We survive natural disasters. We fight against disease. We lock up or shoot our predators.

I hate humans. I really do. I don't just say it for fun, I really mean it.

We're not evolutionarily perfect. We're evolutionarily flawed.

Jesus Raveshadow! Its all for not anyway ya know. We will not endure and neither will this world there wont even be anyone to tell the tale. If there was a chance that humankind could endure should we not even try? If no why, for a few whales?

[edit on 24-7-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Sorry but, so what?

Oh no humans die.

Good. It's our own fault. Let's try to save everything else while we can. It's not the end of the world, if we still work while we can. It's just the end of your world. My world doesn't necessarily include me, so I'd be more than happy to spend my last days preserving the earth, knowing that I'd die. I assume you'd still be trying to save us, killing blue whales and tarsiers and condors and who knows what else in the process.

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean


98% of all species that have ever existed on Earth are now extinct....I leave it to you to guess why.

Ya, 98% of all species that EVER existed...As you yourself stated:

"Sometimes species must give way, and that’s just how the cookie crumbles. "

"This planet is continually destroyed and rebuilt.'

Yes we are killing off species but we can make changes in the way we function that would prevent it and prevent environmental degradation as well. In fact we could begin to develop in ways that benefited the environment.

We live in a doomed ecosystem 100% guaranteed. It’s not a matter of if but rather when and how it meet its demise.

Again with the big bold comments with NO proof at all. Come on mate, if you believe it tell us why and show us some proof.

The chances that humankind may somehow endure are like those of the mega lottery anyhow...

Proof? Of any kind?

...so I guess your right friend. How could humankind survive, in your reasoning?

What? I don't understand what you are saying here... I'm right but I'm wrong all at once? Could you clarify?

In mine I see only one option and that involves a trillion people and the ability to put Earth to work for the single purpose of supporting human life.

So funny. Ya humans have been great at demonstrating they know how to 'run' or manage the earth without causing major damage. Good luck with that mate, your going to need it.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


You fail to see your own flawed logic. Which is perfectly natural. Here let me ask you one question...

How will humanity be COMPLETELY distroyed by global warming?

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Right.

A few whales. A few other species. Everything else that keeps evolving.

We're just primates. What is your issue? We're all going to die anyway, even if the earth stays the same. Everyone dies. Humans keep messing everything up. I'd rather the balance be restored on earth with our destruction, if other life can still survive on the planet.

But I'm also not a greedy person and I know I'm just a bunch of cells and I really think we should pay for our mistakes the right way.

I think we should be more kind to the environment right NOW. Stop deforestation and fossil fuels. It's not hard to do once people understand that money isn't everything. And we'll be fine if enough scientists focus on the problem and not on stupid stuff.


[edit on 7/24/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

You fail to see your own flawed logic. Which is perfectly natural. Here let me ask you one question...

How will humanity be COMPLETELY distroyed by global warming?

Na its a good thing, this is a cold world thats warm only a small percentage of the time.



We do need the knowledge though, and how can we learn anyhting if we do not mess it up and have to fix it? Monkey need monkey do!

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

Right.

A few whales. A few other species. Everything else that keeps evolving.

We're just primates. What is your issue? We're all going to die anyway, even if the earth stays the same. Everyone dies. Humans keep messing everything up. I'd rather the balance be restored on earth with our destruction, if other life can still survive on the planet.

But I'm also not a greedy person and I know I'm just a bunch of cells and I really think we should pay for our mistakes the right way.

I think we should be more kind to the environment right NOW. Stop deforestation and fossil fuels. It's not hard to do once people understand that money isn't everything. And we'll be fine if enough scientists focus on the problem and not on stupid stuff.


[edit on 7/24/2009 by ravenshadow13]

I love nature too, but we are in it for the species! If humankind does endure. I think people will look back at our time and exclaim “That primitive idiocracy was nearly the end of us. What the hell was a whale good for anyway.” As they get ready to attack an alien civilization and take their resources.

Its survival not a fairy princesses day dream.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


We have the knowledge. Or maybe you don't, but science does.

This is a bad idea. We know what would happen if we tried it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is basically saying "Hey, everyone's thrown rocks off this really tall cliff and the rocks break at the bottom. Well, maybe if I jump off, we'll learn something else! And then we can use that information about my experience to save the world. Jumping off sounds like a great idea!"

It's a stupid, unnecessary experiment. We know what would happen if we tried it. The earth is not your laboratory, but even if it was, there's something called background research and knowledge which would make the experiment look like an even worse idea. You could take that first step if you want, though.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Once upon a time, we were really primitive animals.

Once upon a time, whales were land mammals.

Once upon a time in the future, any given species could evolve past humans and gain more intelligence and reasoning abilities. And one day they will go "Wow, those pesky humans were idiots. It's a good thing they didn't kill us or else we wouldn't be here after they were gone."

Humans aren't so special, but you seem to have a God complex with our whole species.

A whale is never just a whale. Just like a slug you salt could have the cure for cancer. Or evolve to save the universe.

You say it's survival. It's not survival. It's YOUR survival! I mean, naturally that's what you care about. I don't.

You would kill multiple species to save one, your own. That's called instinct.

I'm kind of past that.

[edit on 7/24/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Originally posted by Animal

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean


98% of all species that have ever existed on Earth are now extinct....I leave it to you to guess why.

Ya, 98% of all species that EVER existed...As you yourself stated:

"Sometimes species must give way, and that’s just how the cookie crumbles. "

"This planet is continually destroyed and rebuilt.'

Yes we are killing off species but we can make changes in the way we function that would prevent it and prevent environmental degradation as well. In fact we could begin to develop in ways that benefited the environment.

We live in a doomed ecosystem 100% guaranteed. It’s not a matter of if but rather when and how it meet its demise.

Again with the big bold comments with NO proof at all. Come on mate, if you believe it tell us why and show us some proof.

The chances that humankind may somehow endure are like those of the mega lottery anyhow...

Proof? Of any kind?

...so I guess your right friend. How could humankind survive, in your reasoning?

What? I don't understand what you are saying here... I'm right but I'm wrong all at once? Could you clarify?

In mine I see only one option and that involves a trillion people and the ability to put Earth to work for the single purpose of supporting human life.

So funny. Ya humans have been great at demonstrating they know how to 'run' or manage the earth without causing major damage. Good luck with that mate, your going to need it.

The Earth if fine friend. Struggle is the father of things. It is not by the principles of humanity that man lives or is able to preserve himself above the animal world, but solely by means of the most brutal struggle.

A massive population demands we adapt/evolve. It really is the only hope the human race has for survival, as it may be the only path that will lead us to the stars.

For proof of just how screwed we really are just look at any earth history reference.
here is one www.space.com... or en.wikipedia.org...



[edit on 24-7-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

To answer the OPs question, I see 2 options:

1 accept that 99.9999% of all life on earth is better than 0.0001% and we all commit suicide

(okay, not serious )

2. To cut carbon emissions, invent an off switch and teach people how to use it. This may take time. But one day people may actually switch lights off at night and not leave the computer on when they're not using it. This also saves all of us loads of money. So, yeah, unlikely ..... Maybe option 1 was more realistic after all?

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Nothing demands that we adapt and evolve more than other species have a right to adapt and evolve. You want us to get to the stars?

You're talking about principals of humanity that we evolve beyond the animals.

Rough news. We're still animals. We have messed up as a species, we've done things that harm ourselves and now we're on the downslope. That's how nature works. What you're talking about is basically the opposite of nature.

Unless you think humans are special creations and we will be saved by the space people so we can live when earth dies.

And if you think that, I miscalculated this thread and should be going.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

Once upon a time, we were really primitive animals.

Once upon a time, whales were land mammals.

Once upon a time in the future, any given species could evolve past humans and gain more intelligence and reasoning abilities. And one day they will go "Wow, those pesky humans were idiots. It's a good thing they didn't kill us or else we wouldn't be here after they were gone."

Humans aren't so special, but you seem to have a God complex with our whole species.

A whale is never just a whale. Just like a slug you salt could have the cure for cancer. Or evolve to save the universe.

You say it's survival. It's not survival. It's YOUR survival! I mean, naturally that's what you care about. I don't.

You would kill multiple species to save one, your own. That's called instinct.

I'm kind of past that.

[edit on 7/24/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Why would I salt a slug. I don’t kill for fun! People have been known to cut their own limbs off to survive, and that’s what we are discussing here. Humankinds long-term survival.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


You are killing for fun. You want to risk the entire earth so that humankind survives.

Humankind doesn't have to survive if it comes down to it. We need to make some major changes if we want to. But you think it's a fun idea to throw off the entire ecosystem if it helps JUST US survive.

I think I'm done, I don't think you get it.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

You are killing for fun. You want to risk the entire earth so that humankind survives.

Humankind doesn't have to survive if it comes down to it. We need to make some major changes if we want to. But you think it's a fun idea to throw off the entire ecosystem if it helps JUST US survive.

I think I'm done, I don't think you get it.

Its going to be destroyed anyhow friend. Earth should be used for humankinds survival and nothing more. That’s not for fun. That’s for survival there is a major difference.

And yes I get it. I just don’t care when it comes to the survival of our species. I like a allot of others was raised by hippies in the dirt so to speak. We would spend months even into winter camped. In kinderrgarten I was sent to the principal, because when they started talking about indians I stated that I had lived in a teepee and they assumed I was lieing. My father had to be contacted to confirm. I have a real connection to nature, but it's irrelevant to the issue at hand.



[edit on 24-7-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by ravenshadow13


I do not agree with the method this particular company is using, designed to encourage others to "donate" to the "cause". I do not agree with AGW either.

I have researched, and can find CO2 data for industry...But the greater cause of CO2 has very little data available...that being volcanism.

Incomplete data is available from selected monitoring sites for volcanoes that are currently active, but very few. That data shows TONS of CO2 released, but only through intermittent measurements...

Let's stop volcanism, instead of fossil fuels...IMHO.