Bush's Star Trek Voyage

You are lucky. You can say that you like your country, you are consevative or you don't like the democrat party, the left-wing medias....In EU mainland, it's not possible. You can say it, but everybody will look at you like if you were a dinosaur or a martian. 99% of the media are really against the USA & his allies Israel, specialy when there is a republican president.

I know what's going with them. They ( the left-wing party & medias ) want to remove all our rights and freedoms. I hate them !!! In the USA, some medias are " frees " and do not want to do re-education. Not in EU mainland. Most of them are under left-wing control.

They are all pro-left & far-left, pro-arabs, anti-USA & anti-Israel, anti-church and so on... Gees, I have to leave this awful continent, full fill with evils left-peoples.

[Edited on 27-8-2002 by ultra_phoenix]

Bush couldn't carry Clinton's jock strap!!!

"Most Republicans tend to staunchly support a right winger even when the truth is evident that they've been caught with their fingers in the pie and/or the cookie jar. " - USMC Harrier

Truer words have not been spoken. I am amazed, constantly, that he was first 'selected' as THE candidate over McCain, and then, after ALL this MALFESANCE, these folks like Bob88 & Thomas Crowne STILL put him up there next to sliced bread....WAKE UP!! lol!

Arbusto
Insider Trading
The Rangers Deal
Countless Scandals as Texas Gov.
Cheney�s Halliburton
AWOL during Vietnam � www.awolbush.com - (this one really pisses me off!)
AND TOO much more to list ( though I will if you ask!)

Being a Centrist politically, I get a good chuckle from these Freeper Right Wingers saying how everything is Liberal in the perception control category. Hah! If ALL Media is controlled ultimately by SEVEN companies, thus BIG BUSINESS, how can it be Liberal!?!?! I benefit from Bush the Usurpers Tax cuts, & no I won't give the money back, I earned it, but I'll be dammed if I support this FASCIST SCUMBAG!!! This is Nazi seed we're talking here people ( Bob, is that �88� thing related? You know Heil Hitler and all that jazz?). Bouncing on Grandpa's knee(Prescott), hearing those stories of the Fatherland....you wonder, huh? What? You guys didn�t know the Bush line was prosecuted for trading with & supporting Nazi Germany when our troops where engaged against them?
Clinton grew the economy, Bush squandered a 7 TRILLION DOLLAR SURPLUS. The 12 years prior to Clinton was like a kid with a credit card taking cash advances off of one card to pay the other, Reganomics. Bush is as much a non-engaged, delegate everything idiot as was Reagan( I do admit, being the first vote-up and comer-business wonder kid I did vote Reagan ONCE). If you weren�t making money as a professional adult or tradesman during Clinton�s tenure, you have no one to blame except your lack of initiative.
Ann Coulter & Rush Limbaugh are NOT Conservatives, I am; a McCain man. They�re Rabid Right Wingers. Read David Brocks �Blinded by the Right� , not the shat they spew. Christian Fundamentalists are far more dangerous than Islamists, why? Christian Fundamentalist, joined at the hip to Corporate Imperialists, now govern the sole World Superpower.

Bout Time, you say you're a centrist but defend Clinton and dislike Bush? I don't get it. I voted for McCain in the primaries.

Didn't the Dems push Cheney to sell those Halliburton stocks? Where was slick Willy during Nam? That SHOULD really piss you off.

And I am asking - please list more.

The media is liberal, just count the former Clinton aides/ or other employees w/ dem affiliation working for CNNNBCABCCBSMSNBC. Stephanopoulos is going to be fair, my ass. Tim Russert
Chris Mathews, Brian Williams, Cokie, etc, etc, etc. Clinton grew the economy??? Where's our economy now? Geez, Newt predicted this recession based on Clinton's tax increase, the largest in history I might add. Christian Fundamentalists? Or is it the 'the christian right' - a totally made up group. #, Pat Robertson didn't favor impeaching Clinton.

anyways, welcome to ATS, Bout time.

[Edited on 5-9-2002 by Bob88]

As usual...... great points Bob88!!!!

I think it would be safe to say that those of us here don't really trust any politician when it comes down to it......... media included!!!!!!!!

It would be our hope that each President/Congressman/Senator we get would try to do the best for our interest.......... but that doesn't always happen...... usually it ends up being the best for their re-election potential, smoke and mirrors.

It's truly disgusting what power and politics can do to people....... that much I think we can all agree on.

Bob thanks for the welcome! I have had two careers in 20 years of working. The second was during Clinton�s tenure, when I started my company. If you look at the economic philosophy applied across his presidency, he was a fiscal conservative and to the right of Liberal on most everything else. After seeing him pilloried in the media, I started to educate myself from divergent news sources ( international papers online, Columbia Journalism review, Harvard Law Journal, and of course web searches) trying to find out why this president whose policies helped so many different strata in our society was catching such a raw deal. Here's the more you asked for:

Fiscal Responsibility:

Clinton

Stopping Auditor-Consulting Conflicts by Accountants

Clinton Securities and Exchange Commission Chair Arthur Levitt, Jr. proposed regulations to prohibit accounting firms from simultaneously serving as consultants and auditors. Arthur Andersen and other accounting firms mounted a massive lobbying campaign against the Clinton-Levitt regulations, killing them. The lead lobbyist for the accounting firms was Harvey Pitt (Ivan Boesky�s personal lawyer). After being sworn in as President, George W. Bush named Pitt chair of the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Greater Disclosure of Energy Derivatives

Clinton Commodities Futures Trading Commission Chair Brooksley Born proposed greater regulation (by way of more stringent disclosure) of energy derivatives, the key financial instrument in Enron's Ponzi-scheme empire. Her proposal was beaten back by House Republicans, including then-House Banking Committee Chair Jim Leach (R-IA) who scolded her for two hours at a hearing.

Cracking Down on Tax Havens

Clinton Treasury Secretary Larry Summers proposed a crackdown on tax havens such as those used by Enron. With the US co-chairing the OECD's Forum on Harmful Tax Practices, Summers crusaded for a crackdown on money-laundering and tax havens. His proposal was opposed by the GOP Congress. When the Bush Administration took office, Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill abandoned Summers' crusade, telling the Wall Street Journal, "The government has not been respectful of the cost it imposes on society." The New York Times reported that Bush's top economic adviser, Lawrence Lindsey (a former economic adviser to Enron) also opposed efforts to crack down on tax havens.
Protecting Investors and Shareholders

On December 20, 1995, President Clinton vetoed the Public Securities Litigation Reform Act, which would have restricted lawsuits against corporation accused of securities fraud. In his veto message, Clinton presciently noted that while he supported the notion of reducing frivolous lawsuits: "I am not, however, willing to sign legislation that will have the effect of closing the courthouse door on investors who have legitimate claims. Those who are the victims of fraud should have recourse in our courts. Our markets are as strong and effective as they are because they operate -- and are seen to operate -- with integrity. I believe that this bill, as modified in conference, could erode this crucial basis of our markets' strength." The GOP Congress overrode Clinton's veto.

Bush
In a word, PLUTOCRACY! Now I�ve been accused of being a �filthy capitalist� by a neo-hippie niece, but these guys are so out of touch it�s scary. The non-partisan Center for Public Integrity has revealed just how plutocratic and out of touch the Bush Administration is.

The study shows not only that the Bush Administration is basically run by corporation-friendly multi-millionaires, but that real and potential conflicts of interest abound in virtually every key executive agency.

The study also emphasizes that the Bush Administration stands in marked contrast to its immediate predecessor.

Highlights:

--The average net worth of 15 of the top Bush cabinet officials, including the President and Vice President, in 2001 was between $9.9 and $28.9 million -- more than ten times the average net worth of the cabinet officials who were their immediate predecessors in the outgoing Clinton Administration.

--Overall, the average net worth of the top 100 members of the Bush administration was somewhere between $3.7 million and nearly $12 million.

--Overall, 22 of the top 100 Bush officials had significant holdings in 33 companies that lobbied their departments, agencies or offices.

--Overall, 20 of the top 100 officials in the Bush administration work in departments, agencies or offices that their former, private sector employers lobbied or from which they sought federal contracts in 2001.
Link:
www.public-i.org...

Harken: Bush as an officer and part of the Boards Audit committee ( 3 person) lead Harken Energy in using the same Ponzi schemes as Enron.

On Cheney: It�s a straw man argument on the sale of his stock in Halliburton, I have no qualms with him doing what every other politician has done to avoid conflicts of interest, hell, Rumsfield sold $91 MILLION in stock last year. It�s these two deals he brokered that are of issue: 1) During his tenure as CEO, he sold $24M worth of nuclear plant equipment to Iraq in 1998 through a subsidiary to avoid the �trading with the Enemy� type sanction US firms are obligated to respect. 2) Dresser Industries merger � he defrauded Halliburton share holders by assuming the massive debt of Dresser from asbestos litigation. Due Diligence as a corporate officer, THE corporate officer, was sidelined by cronyism to the Bush family and their favorite company: GHW Bush got his start with Dresser, idolized Dresser so much he named his son Neil after him.

Military Service
War sucks, especially unjustified ones like our country has fought since WWII. So getting a military deferment like Clinton, Dick Cheney, Trent Lott, John Ashcroft, Dennis Hastert, Dick Armey, Tom Delay, Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove, and Phil Gramm I can excuse, too a certain extent ( very, very small that it may be). But when you ARE in uniform, going AWOL during war time should catch you a bullet in the head, not a country club gig like Bush and a trip to New England to fake a degree ( guess it�s a cheerleader thing, huh?( www.washingtonpost.com... ) . That also requires the above group, with the exception of Clinton, no damn right to smear veterans like John McCain, Chuck Hagel, John Kerry, and Al Gore, ALL of whom received medals for their service during Vietnam, in order to advance their �chickenhawk� agenda.

Media
If you go to Newsmax or the Drudge report or Rush online or Fox news, you�ll be fed that the media is liberal. Detach & step back: the Media is BIG BUSINESS, dependant on advertising revenue, and the ONLY entities that can pay that piper for the dance is CORPORATE BIG BUSINESS. Big Business is NOT LIBERAL. Jack Welch had all his news entities �call it� for Bush very prematurely and Fox News is run by a former Bush Campaign manager. Look, Global Media Giants have complete ownership of the global market and promote commercial values, while denigrating journalism
and culture not conducive to the immediate bottom line or long-run corporate profits. Period. Look at the tremendous industry & career that sprang up around Clinton bashing that continues to this day. News stopped being �news� a long time ago; it�s all pundits and entertainment now.

Links
www.cjr.org...

www.fair.org...

www.fair.org...

More to come�.

Now, I've figured out what a "centrist" is, it's a person that bases his position on polls and what he feeeeels is good; not anything of substance or law.
Nope; don't see any difference between the "centrist" and the liberal.

Why would a decent human want to touch Clinton's jock strap? I think that also explains the "centrist" 's social policy position as well!

Was there a locker room incident in your past!?! Seems like a good deal of bridging to homophobic references in your responses!
Now I'll give the benfit of the doubt and suppose you read NOTHING from my last post; though it would be tough to overlook my experience with the RABID RIGHT WING - they tend to repeat their pointless arguments & accusations like a mantra - convinced you'll sign up to their 'religion'! LMAO!



** I can hear TC now "UGH, UGH LEE-BAR-RALL BADDD-CLAN O BUSH ONLY WAY, UGH, UGH***

" Centrists " & " democrats " are all the same. They just want to sell their country.

The same in EU. Clinton was friend with Gorbi, Hannan,Jospin, and so on... He gave nuclears secrets to Chicom...and so on...Traitors & traitress to their country and their peoples...All of them !

Sure, I'm not a nazi. But I'll never vote for a traitor who like scelerats communists and is friend with nazis guys like Black Panthers.

TC & BoB88 have right.

[Edited on 6-9-2002 by ultra_phoenix]

...Phoenix, between what constitutes a Democrat in Europe vesus in the US. In the EU it's usually a Socialist platform, no?

What we're fighting against in this country, at least those of us who think beyond party lines anyway, is this march towards Fascism by the current regime.

As for selling out MY country, this Bush administration is doing that. Example? You need look no further than the 'Axis of Evil': Cheney sold $24 Million worth of nuke equipment to Iraq, Bush gave $45 Million to the Taliban in March/01 when they were still trying to win them over with honey, and with North Korea, which is a much bigger threat with Nuke capabilities already, he gives them $95M for NUCLEAR REACTORS WHILE WAVING THE INSPECTION CLAUSE!?!?!?!?

Quoute:
"In releasing the funding, President George W Bush waived the Framework`s requirement that North Korea allow inspectors to ensure it has not hidden away any weapons-grade plutonium from the original reactors.
President Bush argued that the decision was "vital to the national security interests of the United States".

news.bbc.co.uk...

Does this make any, I mean ANY sense whatsoever? You see Pheonix, our Media, for the most part, is in complete ownership by this regime because they are a willing propaganda arm, since they are a huge business.
What is front page reporting in your area about the US, is buried or not even mentioned here. We are suffering a blackout.

Democrats/socialists/commies what�s the difference? Here or in the EU. All are raising taxes, killing babies, and trying to socialize everything (nice health care plan Hillary).

Didn't Halliburton sell oil equipment to Iraq, not nuclear equipment. And wasn't it rather a Halliburton acquisition that had done bidness w/ Iraq (before being acquired)

While I admit I don't know why Bush would waive inspection rights you realize that the reactor deal was brought about a long time ago. Clinton's way of paying off the N. Koreans so he wouldn't have to confront them while their politburo starved 1/5 of their population to death. That would have gotten in the way of Slick Willy's intern adventure. I am afraid Bush was right with the axis of evil comment: the shoe fits. Spin aside, the money for the taliban was for what? It's not like the US was the only one giving aid to that country.

Originally posted by Bout Time
...Phoenix, between what constitutes a Democrat in Europe vesus in the US. In the EU it's usually a Socialist platform, no?

What is front page reporting in your area about the US, is buried or not even mentioned here. We are suffering a blackout.

Yes, it's a socialist-communist platform. beeeeeuurk...I'm sick of them !

A black-out ? In EU, it's a super black-out. And our " liberal " medias are involved in an anti-USA-Israel campaign. I don't understand what's going on. I don't recognise my country & my peoples. Almost 90% are agaisnt the USA & Israel.

90% are pro-Irak, pro-Palestinians.It's a torture for me.I'm still always quarelling with everybody about this situation.

It's not a secret that I'm clearly pro-US.

I certainly read your post, BT, and find it to be groundless garbage based in neither constituion or reality. The fact that you want to sniff Bill Clinton's jock strap, for whatever deviant reason, is none of my business, and nei5ther does it reflect on me in any way. I think the don't ask/don't tell policy my be something for you to invoke, though.

Naw, it's just me; nobody else sees any heavy biaseness in any direction in your centrist speech, huh?

Boy, you folks never met a fact you couldn't spin, huh?
" groundless garbage based in neither constitution or reality" -Thomas Crowne

Thomas, really, the reality of public record , votes, paychecks and vetoes are not my opinions, just reality. Let's keep the alternate reality thing on Star Trek, ok?
It's a fact that Harvey Pitt was the Big 5's mouthpiece in fighting oversight and on their payroll. It's a fact that Bush's Chief Economic advisor was an Enron boy. It's a fact That Thomas White headed the Enron division being prosecuted by California for price fixing. It's a fact the GOP controlled Congress overrode Clinton's veto of the Public Litigation Reform Act. Again, not my conjecture, but something you can surf up on .gov websites.
Let's put aside partisanship for a moment and apply logic, in a vacuum void of habitat. In your opinion, if a group of individuals of a net worth in excess of $100M were given the charter to set economic/social policy, which group do you think that policy would favor - the Gentry from which they come or the proletariat?
On the homophobic thing, good natured teasing , I don't think you're suppressing homosexual tendencies, though there's nothing wrong with that, live & let live is my motto...as long as it's not on my front lawn. Just too many of the Right Wings anti-Clinton arguments start with 'moral outrage' about an affair; utter hypocrisy in my opinion, with all the Gingrich, Fund, Reagan and Barr skeletons in the closet.
On bias voiding my Centrist viewpoint, Hell no! Where I live, my only Democrat vote was for Senator & President - County Exec/Sheriff/Mayor/Controller, ALL REPUBLICAN! I just don't suffer fools gladly, and Mr. Bush is a motley one. That, and if you wore a uniform for your country, an AWOL C in C is a disgrace for all those who do or did.

Bob

No, Mr. Cheney brokered that based on his stellar connections garnered from bouncing back & forth between government contractor to government employee, through a fully owned existing subsidiary.
'Axis of Evil' was and is an idiotic comment illustrating the suit of diplomacy is two sizes too big for our little fake Texan from New England Blue Blood.
Unfortunately, Bill Clinton's not in office; just a reminder since you wrote the North Korean lunacy was a Clinton carry over. It was Bush who released the $95M, it was Bush who waived the inspection clause letting an advanced military power, who is as much or more belligerent against the US as Iraq, freely develop weapons-grade plutonium, and this happened in 2002...not 1998.
Come on now, saying Democrats are Communists is just silly.
Do what I do, let the ones on the far Left and far Right piss you off with their demagoguery, but listen nonetheless, so you can see how much they affect those closer to the center.

It is so good to have a fellow centrist and a voice for the reasonable folks who make up 78% of this great nation.
I'm looking forward to our future discussions!!

As for the Clinton vs Bush deal?
Give me a break!!! An Ivy league Rhodes Scholar versus the Texas ultra-rich boy-cokehead-conservative puppet???

When Bushboy manages to pull Chaneys hand outta his ass and actually states an intelligent opinion all by himself, I'll let ya know!!!

You both need to stop referring to yourselves as centrists, lol

... just because I hate Tofu & stewed Okra doesn't mean I'm anti-vegetarian!

We're likely of the same viewpoint on many more things than we're opposite. And if McCain wasn't denied the nomination, Me, you an USMC Harrier probably would be talking bow hunting or bass fishing!

good point, bout time.

Bass fishing? There are some wonderful largemouth spots in my neck of the woods! And even better, the steelhead season is about to start!

Originally posted by Bob88
good point, bout time.

Bass fishing? There are some wonderful largemouth spots in my neck of the woods! And even better, the steelhead season is about to start!

Sweet! I'm going Sunday for Smallies, my favorite sweet water species. About this time of year we have Wave runners( seatrout), Stripers, and big Blue Fish, some Spanish Makerel thrown in and many a sore arm! Blue Fish are some of the most nasty SOB's swimming and will gladly bite to shreds anything you're stupid enough to put by their mouths!

(**Ooops! Did I let out that fishing is my addiction/therapy!?! )

I'm sorry Harrier, what was that? A Clinton-supporter trying to throw drug comments at anybody?

What was that? Bush went to what school? Or did you fail to notice that he was a frat boy when you called him a frat boy?

Pardon me? Making it sound as if coming from an afluent family is some kind of sin, and not taking note that Clinton has been eating off the tax-payer expense all his life?

Yeah, you two "centrists" (stark-raving pinkos) go enjoy yourselves. I see long, moonlit walks for you two.

Here's a honeymoon spot for you two after you join in your civil contract:
www.unn.runnet.ru...


(Don't get your panties in a wad, B-T, I'm just having a bit-o-fun. Wanna talk NASCAR?)

[Edited on 13-9-2002 by Thomas Crowne]

bt, good smallmouth fishing in our rivers. good, not great though. It's also my therapy!! Largemouth/Perch/Walleye in the spring and summer. Steelhead in Fall and Winter. I can regularly pull 30 inch steelhead out of a river near by. There's nothing like it. And the steelhead are in the salmon 'family' - closer relation to a coho than a brown trout, so they're BIG. I haven't fished salt water in over 10 years.