It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Christian right aims to change history lessons in Texas schools

page: 3
10
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 03:18 AM
link   
reply to post by aorAki
 




I really don't think religion has much to do with the perceived decline in values. I think our access to information has become greater and with that our knowledge about things that previously we wouldn't have known. I consider religion to be an inhibitor, so I reiterate: Whose morals and values, yours or mine?


I couldn't have said it better myself..no really
. We are getting smarter, younger, and the famous "Because i said so" line ain't workin anymore. Rather than engage their children intellectually, they would rather just dumb down the system for them so all answers can be package into "By the will/grace of God". Man, i'm sure those guys don't go into politics, just imagine how messy it would be.

It kills me, especially in America (i live in the bible belt) that Christians believe God was singlehandedly responsible for everything i mean damn, can we take credit as homo sapiens for doing something?

Hell we don't even know if God is a man with 100% percent certainty. Then again, is it necessary for an ultimate being to even has a gender much less male. If God has a sex i strongly believe it would be female simply because females not males "give birth" and are responsible for bringing us into the world, so you can see where i am coming from.

Hmm..i think i should make myself scarce after that post!




posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 03:22 AM
link   
reply to post by GradyPhilpott
 


Um..okay i gotta ask. It says Creator, not God. And it doesn't say the christian god, the muslim god, the catholic god or the Jehovah witness god, just Creator.

How are they inferring the christian sense of God from just Creator?



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 06:54 AM
link   
reply to post by weedwhacker
 



ALSO, even in Germany, as you pointed out, the Muslims sit out the Christian classes??? THAT is ignorance at it's finest!

Yeah, it's kinda funny. I'm not sure why the Muslims flip out though. Probably because they feel threatened.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 07:01 AM
link   
reply to post by mikerussellus
 


I'm well aware of the Christian tenets of the founding fathers. I just happen to believe, much as they would probably agree, to force kids to sit through a Christianity class, that would be done like my college classes were--with the assumption that everyone is Christian, would be disastrous and contrary to what we as Christians should do.

We as Christians, if we want our message to be heard, we need to live our faith like Christ said, and love one another. This is something that is often not practiced today because, Christians feel like it's their duty to force people to be Christian, though they don't realize it, by trying to force our believes and convictions onto a country that doesn't often share those same beliefs.

We have a comission that Christ gave us. We need to fulfill this comission. It can be done without the help of the secular school system. I've seen it done. Christians as a whole need to take a step back and get back to our calling instead of trying to make America Christian. Trying to force America to think like us has lead scores of people to have great disdain for us and our faith. Besides, we're ambassadors for Christ in this world. An ambassador doesn't interfere with the affairs of the country that they are in, neither should we meddle in the affairs of this world. We should be more concerned with what Christ has called us to do.

Do you see something contradictory about teaching Christian theology in a secular school system?



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 08:04 AM
link   
OK 3 pages and ONLY XTexan has come close to questioning this story.

Did none of you notice that it was sourced from a UK article. We are talking about an event that pertains to Texas being written about by the Brits.

How about sourcing a Texas source of news like the Houston Chronicle or the Dallas Post, or my personal favorite the New Braunfels Herald (I'm a sucker for local news)

As a card carrying Texan myself, I have my doubts about the truth of this story.


[edit on 24-7-2009 by titorite]



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 08:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by titorite
OK 3 pages and ONLY XTexan has come close to questioning this story.

Did none of you notice that it was sourced from a UK article. We are talking about an event that pertains to Texas being written about by the Brits.

How about sourcing a Texas source of news like the Houston Chronicle or the Dallas Post, or my personal favorite the New Braunfels Herald (I'm a sucker for local news)

As a card carrying Texan myself, I have my doubts about the truth of this story.


[edit on 24-7-2009 by titorite]


To be fair, yes, it is the Guardian, but it was written by their Washington office. But let's try this article: www.mysanantonio.com

There is an interesting quote in the bottom of this article:



“Instead, (the Texas Freedom Network) and their left-leaning experts are determined to begin with a blank sheet of paper and totally rewrite American history,” Mercer said. “I asked why the ‘expert' version of major national holidays to be studied by first-graders failed to include Veterans Day and Independence Day. The response was ‘that was covered in kindergarten.'”


So because the "‘expert' version of major national holidays " doesn't waste an already busy school day by requiring students to learn the same thing twice, it is liberal left revisionism? Never mind the fact that the teacher will probably cover those two holidays again *anyway*.

After having the night to think about this, I think this is probably a non-issue. The teachers in the public school system will likely NOT teach a Christian based lesson plan. Instead, they will point out, like my teachers did, that there were a bunch of Christians around at the beginning of this country and they had a big influence.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:12 AM
link   
reply to post by rogerstigers
 


Ti bein. THat is much better. A source I can trust. I think it is as you said.. The most we could expect might be "They had an impact." When I took History the most christianly I was ever taught about would be the "Salem witch trials"

For the record I also agree with you about the Pledge.

If a kid can not define the idea of indivsiblity then he should not be swearing by it and adults that don't know it was written by a socialist should learn more about it.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by titorite]



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:19 AM
link   
Considering the majority of christians I have come across who spew hate and bigotr coupled with a lack of intelligence because of a "God is right and everything else is wrong" mentality, I really don't want these people having a sy in what is moraly right and wrong. Cause yeah, hating a group of people that does not agree with what you think is really a great way to preach morals. Biggest bunch of hipocrytes I have ever met. Not saying this is all christians, just the hundreds that I have met over the years.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:37 AM
link   
A few thoughts spring to mind with this article:

1) The idea of the state promoting one religion is fundamentally against American ideals of government. As such, ALL or NO faiths should be discussed in public school. It would be great to see all faiths explained in public school. A little understanding goes a long way to preventing hatred between individuals; however, if teachers cannot objectively discuss all religions, then it should be left alone.

2) You cannot use the word 'creator' to infer that the nation was based upon Christianity. Reading alternative sources, such as the Federalist Papers, gives much more information about the founder's intent regarding religion and the state. As mentioned, learning about the founders reveals that they were deists, not Christians.

3) Teaching morality without religion is simple. You still teach the child the golden rule, to respect others, ect. The justification merely switches from "because god said so" to "because they are another human being." This should result in a stronger morality because you are not hating an individual "because god says they are evil," but rather accepting that individual because they are a human being. It also makes it simpler to explain why something is wrong. "Well Johnny, you cannot do that because it hurts Bobby. He deserves respect just like you do."

4) History should be presented free of bias from religion, patriotism, and other such fact skewing ideologies. History should be facts, not beliefs.

There has been mention of doubt concerning the authenticity of this article. True or not, this would be only one of many examples of American religious fanatics trying to use the government to push their beliefs and agenda. With the debate about Evolution vs. Creationism, they opened up a dangerous front in this ideal pushing. They are going for a “get them while they are young” approach (possibly brought on by the more liberal leanings of higher education, which is likely brought about by the fact that educated people tend to be very critical of the idea of god, a documented fact, but I digress). It is important to prevent this indoctrination of impressionable youths, so that they have the opportunity to choose their own beliefs rather than being forced into the beliefs of their teachers or administrators.

Just my $.02 the matter though.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 11:04 AM
link   
I don't see this going anywhere. The reason for moral decay isn't because of lack of religion, it's because of a corrupt system that only wants to see profits, pay raises, decrease in education (got to keep the herds dumb right), they could care less about the kids, unless someone is running for election then they can do a campaign ad with a bunch of school children just to show they care.
Putting religion in schools this way is another way to dumb people down even more so and it goes against what the U.S stands for. Schools are not completely to blame for the state of the kids, it goes right back to the parents. But the education standards in this country is so low, it's pathetic.

I recently found a test from 1895, it was an eighth grade exam and I'm willing to bet most college students couldn't pass it without cheating. Here's another example, and this was ten years ago when I was still in high school. I took chemistry, had a miserable time at it. The teacher, who was the track coach as well as a science teaching was a cool guy, but that was it. He was an awful teacher, he spent most of the time talking about his glorious high school and college years that there wasn't much room for lessons. He was too busy trying to be buddy buddy with the students. Then there were a few days where one of the other science teachers in that school was subsituting for him. She was strictly a science teacher, nothing else. Not a coach, school activity leader, nothing just science and she was very strict, had no sense of humor. But she was an excellent teacher, there was no goofing off, and we probably got more out of that class from those few days than the entire semester.

I found out that her students passed her classes more than that other teachers, because I was one of the many in that class alone that failed it. He even said he didn't really care if any of them passed or failed, he was going home with his paycheck. This isn't the only teacher I had back then that said something like this. This is the problem here, teachers don't care, the department of education doesn't care, and in the end the students are suffering and some would grow up to become those people who ended up on shows like Jay Leno and his jaywalking. Better education needs to be in the schools and nothing should be graded on a curve, nor should anyone get guided through gently and as easy as possible. That is what isn't working.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 11:17 AM
link   
reply to post by rogerstigers
 


Church and State should be separated forcibly from one another.

Someone go turn on the hose and we'll hose 'em down.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 12:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by rogerstigers
 


I have to repectfully disagree. With the state of moral decay in our schools, our culture, our social interactions, there needs to be some moral teachings that need to take place. You may be the exception to the rule but I can assure you that there are parents out there who have given up their rights as a moral authority to teach their children.
Christian, muslim, catholic, buddist, -hell- frackin' witchcraft should have some place in our school system, only because you can see the moral decay occuring right after they took religion out of schools.
Political correctness has done NOTHING absolutely NOTHING to aid in making our children better human beings. If you are an athiest, fine, I'm sure there is something out there that eschews athiest moral values.

I think it is a good thing. Any other suggestions as to what they should teach/bring in for the teaching of moral values. . . please bring them. But at this time, christian teachings sounds like a good idea to me.

00.02

edited for spelling

[edit on 23-7-2009 by mikerussellus]


Respectfully, religious teaching, "moral" teachings, should be done at home and not in school.

The school system can't even teach the basics well, and people want to give the responsibility for teaching morals to the school system?

I have for the past approx fifteen years volunteered at my childrens school. Are any of you aware, of how little time teachers really have to spend in the class with students having real discussions? They are regulated so intensely at this time, that to go off on a discussion which the children are interested in is basically impossible. Gotta keep to that schedule. Most of us who have any interaction with our schools, know that to add even more onto our teachers, would be irresponsible. Let's give them the ability to actually "teach" the basics, and not an intense schedule which forces teachers to move on even when they know 99% of the class needs a few more days on a specific subject area.

Whose morals should the school system teach? Christian morals? Muslim morals? Buddhist morals? Native American? Pagan?

Who gets to choose? Teach your children morals at home. Public school is not the place.

That is what private religious schools are for. If someone wants their child taught religion in school, in this country (USA) you have the opportunity to send your child to a private school.

I do agree it would be a good idea to have a "philosophy" class or a class on "religionS" and/or a class in ethics, starting in Elementary school, which teaches all the different religious beliefs, but does not push any particular belief system on the children. Though like I said above, the schedule of what has to be taught when and for how long, is so intense that teachers have a hard time fitting everything required into the curriculum as it is.

Harm None
Peace



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 12:57 PM
link   
What’s wrong with the pledge of allegiance we all live here you can always leave it’s a free country unlike some places.




Originally posted by rogerstigers

Honestly, this ticks me off. A while ago, there was a discussion on one thread about lines in the sand that we all have. This is one of them. If they want to start blatently teaching revisionist history to support the Christian cause I will take action.

Heh, as I am writing this, my daughter is telling me about the staff at her school giving her flack for not saying the pledge of allegiance. I told her next time they give her trouble, have them talk to me.

What the hell is this country coming to...*sigh*

www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 7-23-2009 by rogerstigers]



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:34 PM
link   
reply to post by rogerstigers
 

I don't know where you went to school, but I had my first history course in the 5th grade. I learned about the American concentration camps, where Japanese-Americans were rounded up and detained, then released after the war with no reparations. I was 10 years old and the year was 1960.
I didn't learn about the economic sanctions until I was in the eigth grade.
I also learned about our founding fathers when I was in the 5th grade. I knew they were Deists and I understood the philosophy of Deism.
And if you re-read my post you will see that I state that Christianity and DEISM were the prevailing philosophies.
You assume I am a Christian, but nowhere in my post did I state my beleif in a particular religious philosophy.
But as I did state in a previous post, if you don't believe in God, then what difference does it make to you? If you child receives teaching about the religious thought that was prevalent during a particular era of history, you can always teach the child what you believe. In the long run, the child will make their own decision anyway.
I was brought up one way and am now diametrically opposed to the religion my mother raised me in.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
reply to post by rogerstigers
 

I don't know where you went to school, but I had my first history course in the 5th grade. I learned about the American concentration camps, where Japanese-Americans were rounded up and detained, then released after the war with no reparations. I was 10 years old and the year was 1960.
I didn't learn about the economic sanctions until I was in the eigth grade.
I also learned about our founding fathers when I was in the 5th grade. I knew they were Deists and I understood the philosophy of Deism.
And if you re-read my post you will see that I state that Christianity and DEISM were the prevailing philosophies.
You assume I am a Christian, but nowhere in my post did I state my beleif in a particular religious philosophy.
But as I did state in a previous post, if you don't believe in God, then what difference does it make to you? If you child receives teaching about the religious thought that was prevalent during a particular era of history, you can always teach the child what you believe. In the long run, the child will make their own decision anyway.
I was brought up one way and am now diametrically opposed to the religion my mother raised me in.


I will first apologize for my terse remarks yesterday and my assumption of your beliefs. I was out of line on that. No excuse other than I was in a terrible mood.

I wish my history classes were as good as yours seemed to be. I went all the way through high school without EVER being told any of the things we talked about. I was in high school from 88 - 92. That, I think, shows how far things have fallen.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:42 PM
link   
reply to post by mikerussellus
 


What that means that you as a parent have not power to teach your child moral and religious issues? that you need somebody else and outside source to do that job for you?

Common that can not be true. Right?



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by twistingtree
What’s wrong with the pledge of allegiance we all live here you can always leave it’s a free country unlike some places.



See my post here for my explaination about my reasoning behind that statement.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:45 PM
link   
reply to post by rogerstigers
 


I was a teacher for 9 years, I never forced any of my students to do the one minute silence, (prayer) or do the pledge of alliance if they didn't want it too.

That was up to them and a personal choice.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:55 PM
link   
reply to post by marg6043
 


I'd shake yer hand if I could. I actually have a good deal of faith in many of the teachers. Most of them tend to be fairly open minded and flexible, even here in Dallas. The administrators tend to be the bullies.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 02:10 PM
link   
reply to post by rogerstigers
 


Hey I come from a very religious state also GA you know here the southern Baptists church territory, still in my classroom I did the dictating.




new topics

top topics



 
10
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join