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Be Your Own God! Self-Reliance is the key

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posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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If everyone becomes their own god; right, wrong, good, bad, love, hate loose their meaning.

One's God is that which one Obeys.
Each of us resembles (in character) the God we understand.

I hope your God's character consists of humility, kindness, brotherly love, forgiveness, patience(forbearance and long suffering) etc.

Otherwise your God will fail you.




posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Most people just are not going to get it.
They need to have some entity to rely on, others to blame.
It is really that God Source is a collective of all life.
We all are responsible to connect to that God Source. IMO
Just my opinion and everybody has one.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
If everyone becomes their own god; right, wrong, good, bad, love, hate loose their meaning.



It's a wonderful thing isn't it?

Even Paul went on about it in Romans stating that nothing was inherently good or bad, only to he who thought it so. But, to the person who does think it is good or evil, truly it is to that person.






One's God is that which one Obeys.



Yep.. and there is no stronger god than the Will of the individual.




Each of us resembles (in character) the God we understand.


I hope your God's character consists of humility, kindness, brotherly love, forgiveness, patience(forbearance and long suffering) etc.



You hope this for your sake I assume. When you are your own God though, all these things come naturally because there is no one to blame. No one to hate.




Otherwise your God will fail you.


When one follows their own will, they can never truly fail, even if they never reach their destination.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 12:10 PM
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The importance of this self-respect as a prime motivator of human nature can hardly be overstated; it may enable an individual to defy civilization, even in the face of the hatred of the whole modern world. When an individual acquires fundamental self-respect, then s/he will be made a fool no longer, and all the blows of civilization are nothing but the battle scars of a proud warrior. Civilization is powerless against it, because a person who has re-claimed fundamental self-respect cares nothing about the laws and standards of civilization.

This self-respect leads to genuine self-love, the second and decisive step on the path to sanity, for self-love (and happiness in large measure) consists in becoming one's own ideal again, as in childhood. This self-love eventually overflows and becomes love for others and for external nature.

www.primitivism.com...



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by pai mei
 


Right on


An excellent contribution to this thread....

Thank You!



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by cindymars
reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Most people just are not going to get it.
They need to have some entity to rely on, others to blame.
It is really that God Source is a collective of all life.
We all are responsible to connect to that God Source. IMO
Just my opinion and everybody has one.



That's the thing.

I've noticed that even people who change their views and move from a belief in God to being an Atheist still bring the conditioning of being judgmental with them, which was what pushed them away to begin with.

People want to have an evil demon they can rally against. And that's fine, as long as we realize that the God and the Demon are both inside us and not out there.

When we stop blaming others, we can start making progress on the things that bother us so much.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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Yes! Let's all behold a glorified picture of ourselves and think things into existence. Where is the hope? Where is the strength? Where is the love that guides me on the way if not for a superior creator that has told me He loves me and will not forsake me?


Galatians 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.


Please do not mislead yourself or others. God is the plan. Jesus is the key. Do not be fooled into taking the burdens of this world upon your own shoulders.


Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


Edited to add: Just read something that struck me. For someone to forgive themselves and gird up their loins and move on they still need God. Jesus is the key. I like this premise you set up, you know, take responsibility and stop blaming things on unseen forces. That will only get you so far. Not being critical of your thread. I just see a blatant circle of despair.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by jackflap]



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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Indeed we all do need intercessory grace (active love) from a power greater than the self, and we cannot truly engineer our own salvation, lacking in objectivity as subjective observers. There's always a blind spot in other words. I would rather be an imperfect creature in relationship with a perfect, just and merciful God, than an impertect and flawed God in my own right. Eventually we all lose our integrity and fail our own word. God as higher power upholds and maintains all integrity, allowing us to continually work to get into alignment with His perfect will.
Only when your hearts innermost desire is synonymous with the will of God, would a person be in true communion with God, and even then it's still an I-thou relationship betwee a lover and a beloved other.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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To what extent have you tested your theory, OP ?

Do you drive on public highways?
Do you attend hospitals, dentists ?
Do you, have you, accepted unemployment benefits?
What do you live in?
What do you use for transport?
Have you ever been incarcerated?
Has anyone you value died as result of your failing to summon medical or other assistance?
What injustices have you experienced and how have you reacted to them?
In relationships (friendships, romantic, other) which have ended badly, have you accepted the situation, railed against it, whined, complained, attempted to justify your actions, attitudes, comments, etc. ?
Do you have children? If so and they detail to you injustices they've encountered, what advice, assistance, etc. have you offered?

Please give first-hand accounts to illustrate how and under what circumstances you've put your theory into action.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by St Vaast
To what extent have you tested your theory, OP ?

Do you drive on public highways?


Yes for which I pay my fair share of taxes.





Do you attend hospitals, dentists ?



Yes and I pay my own bills.




Do you, have you, accepted unemployment benefits?



Nope, although I pay for others to have them.




What do you live in?



A house which I paid to have built.




What do you use for transport?



A used car I purchased outright.




Have you ever been incarcerated?



Not in Jail no...





Has anyone you value died as result of your failing to summon medical or other assistance?



No, but I'm confused as to why you would ask that. Keep in mind Emersons point in the essay is not to be in isolation, but to enjoy the independence of isolation while being within society.




What injustices have you experienced and how have you reacted to them?



I've suffered injustices throughout my life, they have all been of different magnitude. And when I was younger my frustration with these caused me to be very self destructive. I never really retaliated against these outwardly, but that wasn't from any sense of enlightenment... that was just because I thought that it was "wrong" to do so.




In relationships (friendships, romantic, other) which have ended badly, have you accepted the situation, railed against it, whined, complained, attempted to justify your actions, attitudes, comments, etc. ?



So it's actually been those situations which pushed me toward self reliance.

My Father died when I was 17 and I didn't speak to my Mother for years after. I ended up living out of a car. I had to pick myself up and keep moving forward.

As a youth I was never really accepted by anyone as I was very "independent" in thought and deed, and mostly because I never felt any positive vibes from family. And also because no one ever was there to help me move along.. it had to be me.

Eventually I got married, and that went south. When it did, I have to admit, not having the realizations I have today, I was caught up. I had become married to a woman who had her own issues, and would make agreements only to break them with not even the smallest amount of understanding why that would upset me. So, when that went all the way south, yes I would become very angry until I realized that I was giving all of my power away by doing this just so I could feel loved. I realized that you can never be upset with someone for being what they are. If someone doesn't hold up to a social agreement... stop making agreements with them :-) Otherwise there is no one to blame but myself :-) Plus I learned that no one can love me the way I can love me.

But to your point... this is the process of growing up. Today, I don't have that issue anymore. People still disappoint, and things still don't go right here and there. But I no longer hold my angst past the end of that day. It's a much more free form of living if you ask me.





Do you have children? If so and they detail to you injustices they've encountered, what advice, assistance, etc. have you offered?




I do. The thing is, that an injustice to a child could be "Why does my mom make me do hard chores?" To which I have to explain, the reasons behind that. When he asks "Why doesn't my step dad explain things like you do?" I tell him that everyone is different. The key is to understand if they have your best interest at heart or not.

Of course that was years ago, now he lives with me and to be honest I haven't had to help him understand anything in a while along those lines.

There have been no "serious" injustices done to him at this stage, other than the divorce he had to go through. I count myself lucky in that.




Please give first-hand accounts to illustrate how and under what circumstances you've put your theory into action.


Well those come from how I live my life. I haven't always been true to these principles. They are very tough to follow. For someone as myself who never felt love from his own family, I've sought that out all my life. And in many situations, I have sacrificed my own self reliance to attain the love I sought believing that was what I needed.

As I've grown older now and have much less to prove to myself or anyone else, and have learned how to love myself and let others love me if they will, it's much easier to follow the self-reliant road.

Being your own God though was the breakthrough for me. Being happy in my own eyes is more important than the eyes of anyone else including a God.

I used to have a job and worry, now I own my own business and no longer worry. As for fear of loss... I've dealt with enough loss in my lifetime that I no longer fear it. It happens, it has its effects, and life goes on.

The only thing that is important to me now is that when I die I can say that no matter what I achieved, that I lived life the way I wanted to and am happy with my narrative. There is no one else to make happy in my life but me. After chasing what I felt "I should do" most of my life, I realized that no one makes up the "shoulds" in my world except for me. And I can drop the "should" at a moments notice.

An example of this was an album I was working on recently. 5 songs into it my producer and I had a falling out. I perform and make music because I enjoy sharing it with my friends and fans. At first he was on board with this, but as it became more about business he had much less time to spend with me enjoying it. He felt I should just make music sans inspiration and keep churning them out. My stance was after I had written a song, I wanted to share it with our internal group, get feedback etc. He didn't understand the need for that. We discussed this, and I realized he had no interest in what I really wanted, but only what he wanted. At this point I realized the social contract was broken, and just dropped the entire project.

I much rather life my life the way I want, than sacrifice that for any goal. I spent 3 years working toward that album, but would rather keep living the way I want than be unhappy chasing a goal the way someone else wanted.

Don't get me wrong. I am married again, and I have taken on responsibilities for things which enrich my life. But at the same time, I no longer identify myself with my current situation. I have just been without so many times before and come back to gain so much each time that I no longer fear being without again.

Anyway.. I hope that helps answer your questions. And I appreciate your contribution to the thread.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Indeed we all do need intercessory grace (active love) from a power greater than the self, and we cannot truly engineer our own salvation, lacking in objectivity as subjective observers. There's always a blind spot in other words. I would rather be an imperfect creature in relationship with a perfect, just and merciful God, than an impertect and flawed God in my own right. Eventually we all lose our integrity and fail our own word. God as higher power upholds and maintains all integrity, allowing us to continually work to get into alignment with His perfect will.
Only when your hearts innermost desire is synonymous with the will of God, would a person be in true communion with God, and even then it's still an I-thou relationship betwee a lover and a beloved other.


Ya know... I can relate to where you are coming from. But the I-thou relationship often morphs in my life into an I-I relationship.

I see myself in others. I no longer have consistent beliefs being guided by a narrative larger than myself. I no longer need external grace.

let me clarify that too. I still experience grace, but not from a divine substance. It comes from the fact that I no longer hold myself to an external or even internal rigid standard.

Now don't get me wrong. Sometimes when I need to "have a friend" I will find solace in "The Universe" or anyone who happens to be around for that matter. But just as my life took me to the last sense of enlightenment, my life continues to move me along to ever increasing phases of enlightenment where things change.

Remember, if you meet the buddha on the road, kill him.

My spiritual life has never been more rich. The dance I have still exists, but I am both the lover and the beloved. The Universe is subjectively interpreted as me.

The Mircocosm and the Macrocosm are one.

Or to use a Christian phrase "I and the Father are one".



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by jackflap
Yes! Let's all behold a glorified picture of ourselves and think things into existence. Where is the hope? Where is the strength? Where is the love that guides me on the way if not for a superior creator that has told me He loves me and will not forsake me?


Galatians 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.


Please do not mislead yourself or others. God is the plan. Jesus is the key. Do not be fooled into taking the burdens of this world upon your own shoulders.


Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


Edited to add: Just read something that struck me. For someone to forgive themselves and gird up their loins and move on they still need God. Jesus is the key. I like this premise you set up, you know, take responsibility and stop blaming things on unseen forces. That will only get you so far. Not being critical of your thread. I just see a blatant circle of despair.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by jackflap]


Jack, Lovely scriptures.

I interpret everything Jesus said as being what we should say as well. Imagine what it must have been like for Jesus to feel that "I and the Father are one".

That's what I'm talking about. So if you interpret those scriptures in a way that you are the one saying the words Jesus is speaking, you will come close to what my meaning is.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


And thank you for responding so comprehensively.

Don't wish to impose too greatly on your time here, but perhaps you'd give me your views on the following

Having survived life not dissimilar from your own, I was confronted by the following situation a few years ago:

* corrupt group of individuals who comprised a committee which in turn had access to several million dollars per annum of residents' money (including that of my own family). As is often the case, the corruption was kick-started by one individual who was employed by the government department mandated to resolve and investigate such matters. The individual held a lowly position within that gov. dept. but convinced others that her position was within the departmental heirarchy.

* several hundred families reside in this private complex which contains swimming pools, parks, gymnasiums, gardens, etc. Each property owner paid approx. $26.00 per week towards upkeep of same. This amount is actually paid twice annually and is termed Fees and Levies. Within months of formation of the Residents' Committee, the Fees and Levies were raised to just over $100 per week.

* Gov. legislation requires Residents' Committees to abide by rules. For example, one of these requires that the Committee be accountable. Another warns committee members that membership of a committee in no way provides them immunity from prosecution should they be accused or found guilty of fraud, embezzlement, etc. Legislation also requires the committee to provide residents a minimum of two weeks notice re: any committee meetings and requires that meetings be open to residents.

* Members of the committee are not required to provide evidence of good character. Nor are they required to have attained minimum education. They are not required to demonstrate they are of sound mind. They are not required to prove that they have a clean record. Etc. In effect, anyone may become a committee member. They may have an extensive criminal history. They may be insane. They may have no education at all.

Ok. Many residents complained -- about the outrageous increase in fees and levies, for example. Others complained that no maintenance was being conducted, despite residents paying over $100 per household per week for just that purpose. Some learned that the Committee Chairman had authorised payment of $8,000 to his own brother for removal of a sapling which would/should have been removed by contract gardeners (had the committee paid for services of same).

Many complained. I was the only one prepared to take it to the next step, which I did. I began straighforwardly -- I wrote to the committee, detailing the issues of concern. It was ignored.

When I attempted to attend committee meetings, I was refused entry.

When I succeeded in gaining entry on a later occasion, I was verbally abused from the outset and instructed (screamed at) to 'Get out ! Get out!'

I next contacted the appropriate government Minister and provided them with full documentation of the situation.

The Minister failed to respond, other than to advise he would forward the matter to someone else.

I next took the matter to the appropriate opposition minister and provided them full documentation. And so on.

This continued for three years, during which time I was threatened by the corrupt, legislation-defying committee members and ignored by politicians paid to investigate and resolve such situations.

Throughout those 3 years, the committee continued 'vanishing' what amounted to several million dollars, whilst politicians covered-up and whitewashed.

I took it to the media. Lots of promises, but no action

Lengthy as this account is, it doesn't scratch the surface. Will post the conclusion, such as it is, in my next post



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by St Vaast
reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


And thank you for responding so comprehensively.

Don't wish to impose too greatly on your time here, but perhaps you'd give me your views on the following



Sure... I'll post my views after your summation of the story. Sounds rather intriguing...



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


During the approx. 3 years I was attempting to restore accountability and justice, I pushed myself too hard and suffered a couple of minor strokes and my lifelong low blood pressure soared dramatically. I pushed on. By this stage, 30 corrupt individuals were involved in addition to the corrupt committee members, including Strata managers, strata-management companies, two government senior Ministers and the Commissioner for the State authority paid to ensure the corruption I was fighting could not/would not occur in the first place.

In fact, the government department charged with resolving the matter, itself engaged in corruption (the documentation evidencing same is still in my possession) by setting phony dates for Tribunals, phoning me with other dates in order I would not appear (this would have caused the case to be dropped), applying State seals to forged documents, intercepting the mail when I sent duplicates (at their request: they claimeded they'd 'lost' the originals), phoning me at my home and offering to 'do a deal' if I'd drop the matter, etc. etc.

Our local Member of Parliament initially swore to 'take the matter to the floor of Parliament' if the gov. dept's involved continued involvement in the corruption. Later, she advised me (said she'd deny it if I quoted her) that she had no option other than to walk away from it, because she'd been warned to do so, at cost of her political career.

The alleged 'opposition' Ministers also dropped the matter. Of course, I realise now there is only a One Party system in this country, posing as two parties at election time.

I still possess all the documentation, photographs, etc. The corruption continues as before. All required to expose the corruption to begin with would be independent audit of monies extorted from residents by the committee and for these to be compared with outgoings. Simple.

My health and family suffered as did our relationship with other residents, most of whom, when push came to shove (and after seeing what had happened to me) claimed they 'couldn't afford to get involved'.

So, we have millions of dollars unaccounted for and the situation continues to this day.

In the end, for the sake of my sanity and health, I stored all the documentation and other evidence and didn't pursue it further. I am prepared to enter the arena again, provided the opportunity.

Where -- with respect to your theory -- did I go wrong?

I admit and accept that had I invested less time, intensity and energy into the situation, my health may not have suffered to the extent it did (and much was irreversible).

Will also admit without reservation that I continue to harbour considerable anger, disappointment, disgust towards paid governmental bodies and individuals and feel a massive injustice which could have been halted remains unresolved (at considerable cost to residents).

Corruption won. Simple as that.

I walked away in the end, even though I'd sworn I wouldn't. Went back to putting family and sanity at the top of the list of priorities. Life taught me that you can't beat City Hall, nor does 'good' necessarily triumph over 'evil'. I don't like it but I've learned to accept it.

How would you have dealt with/continue to live with, the above situation, if you don't mind ? What would you have done differently? How would your theory apply to the case I've detailed ?

It's not the only situation of its kind that I've fought and lost in the past decade. Is 'accepting injustice and corruption' part of being Your Own God ? How does this bode for the betterment of mankind generally, or the future ?



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Even Paul went on about it in Romans stating that nothing was inherently good or bad, only to he who thought it so. But, to the person who does think it is good or evil, truly it is to that person.


Look at the context. What was Paul dealing with, talking about, to whom was he saying it to, why, etc.

He was talking to Jewish converts that were arguing about old Jewish traditions and falling back to their old ways. Without reviewing it, I recall some were arguing about eating meat, or holding one day as special over another....that kind of thing.

For you to smugly take that and turn it into a broad brush stroke by saying Paul was teaching nothing is inherently good or bad is bad scholarship and irresponsible.

Hermeneutics is the science of language interpretation. It teaches you how to examine these scriptures to get the proper meaning from the proper context. Do some research.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Or to use a Christian phrase "I and the Father are one".

Beneath the ego and the subjective personality or who we THINK we are, this is true. It is who we really are, a manifestation of the unmanifest ONE.

The I am that I am, IS.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by John Matrix

I hope your God's character consists of humility, kindness, brotherly love, forgiveness, patience(forbearance and long suffering) etc.


You hope this for your sake I assume. When you are your own God though, all these things come naturally because there is no one to blame. No one to hate.



Otherwise your God will fail you.


When one follows their own will, they can never truly fail, even if they never reach their destination.


The Divine Nature, Christ nature, character of God, is not natural, does not come naturally to man.

The heart and mind of man is full of pride, covetousness, envying...and when his nature is challenged or contradicted, he is thrown into a state of wrath.

Man has no other nature unless God gives it to him. The heart of man is evil and desperately wicked above all things, continually contemplating evil thoughts.

Look at all the senseless murders, rapes, robberies, etc. on the evening news. That's the nature of man at work without God. The good man does for his fellow man, he could not do without God.

When push comes to shove, your SELF will not be the anchor that saves you, it will be the weight that sinks you. Your Self won't be Rock you can stand on, it will be the sand you sink into.

When the pressures of life get unbearabe, people with no faith just snap and go postal. I see it every day.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by John Matrix
 


The rock of ages however, is the Christ mind, and it's our responsibility to realise it, in this life, in the now.

It's a rock within, which must become the predominant presence, capable of dissolving the ego, the "white stone" of revelations is also the philosopher's stone, and it is also the spirit of the living God in Christ, who, having been made manifest in human form is also a pattern and a model to follow - but it's purely of a spiritual nature, there is no idol of worship, but a way of being.

It is the true heart and innermost being of man, made fully manifest in the person of Jesus Christ as a presentation of the true stature of the human being in the grand scheme of things, a realm of possibility and potentia, arising in an eternal wellspring of death and resurrection from the Tao and the ineffible mystery of the living God.

So I think to say that the "heart" of man is evil, is actually false and bad theology and psychology, when it's the very heart of man, which shares the very ground of being with "the I am that I am" who is God.

Ego self, ought to be differentiated from the heart of man, and man's true and authentic nature as a child of God, set in the appropriate family framework of the eternal household of God, which is the also the manifest and unmanifest reality within which we find ourselves emersed, even now.



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by St Vaast
 


Well you hit it on the head yourself there.



Went back to putting family and sanity at the top of the list of priorities.


To be honest, I would expect the answer would be different from each man according to his conditioning.

But I think you have summed it up for many folks, putting family and sanity at the top of the list. A man once said to a married couple quarreling with eachother, "Do you want to be right? Or do you want to be happy?".

Not to jump around a whole lot, but the practice of Mindfulness teaches us to sense what is. When we do this, we eventually fill the entirety of our being with what is, and concepts and interpretations "about" that which is are silenced.

Within this space there is a clarity of mind, which every man has as his refuge.

That's probably about the most general way I can put it.

If I were to give an example, I recall a time when I was younger where I used to sit for a while in the bottom of a shower and just let the hot water run over me, and lose myself in the sound and sensation of the water. During these moments, my mind was free and became more clear. I was not only washing my body I was washing my mind.

I don't do this anymore, but I have other meditations that I use today. Many involve expressing myself through music and song.

Anyway, I believe that the joy that family can bring is also a refuge. It allows you to sense something of yourself very deeply.

I know I didn't answer your specific issue, but as I said, I think you answered it better than I could have.



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