The Rise of the Birther Movement and It's Aims.

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posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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This thread is not another opportunity to discuss the reality or non-reality of the birther movement and Obama's legitimacy...It is a discussion that supposes Obama is legitimate and questions the motive for this movement in this context. Thank you all for playing along

The Birther movement, which I am sure all of us here at ATS have become increasingly familiar with is intriguing to me. It intrigues me not because I think they are onto a true conspiracy where Obama is secretly not a USA citizen but because of what I perceive as a more covert and insidious attack on President Obama by groups allied in their opposition to him personally and his party.

The Birther movements inception is credited, by some, to a series of article printed by WorldNetDaily beginning in late 2008 in the run up to Obama's election.


During the closing days of the 2008 presidential campaign, and in the weeks following Barack Obama's election as president of the United States, WorldNetDaily posted numerous articles that advanced conspiracy theories about his citizenship status, alleging he is not constitutionally eligible to be president because he is not a natural-born citizen and that his Hawaiian birth certificate is a forgery.
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This is interesting point to me as WorldNetDaily is a well known right-wing news source and known source of 'conspiracies'. link

So these claims against Obama begin and he does what no president I can name has done, he posts his birth certificate online for all to see. This however appears to be a mistake. Giving credit to the rumors in anyway seems to do little more than fan the flames of fanaticism. Instantly a dozen new allegations concerning his legitimacy sprout up in the wake of this release.

It is a forgery, it is a fake, the State of Hawaii is in on the conspiracy, it is not the long form and somehow incomplete, etc...

Interestingly the State of Hawaii has made several public statements supporting the legitimacy of this document.


HONOLULU (AP) State officials say there's no doubt Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Friday she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.
link


My question is this: why is this movement so important to the Right-Wing that 10 Congressmen are supporting a bill that will require Obama to release what he has already released?

My opinion: this is an attempt to paint Obama as an outsider. It is to make him appear as an 'other' and clearly not one of us, US citizens. It is about trying to weaken the opposing parties ability to achieve its goals by making those goals seem to be the desire of an 'outside' or 'foreign' force that does not hold the USA's best interests at heart. And sadly I think it is a play on the racism left in this country.

The birther movement is a farce created to make Obama seem to be an illegitimate leader and manipulates those willing to buy into the lie in order to mobilize the gullible masses. It is a display of how the republican party is interested in party-over-country politics and its desperation for power and control.

[edit on 23-7-2009 by Animal]




posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Animal
The birther movement is a farce created to make Obama seem to be an illegitimate leader and manipulates those willing to buy into the lie in order to mobilize the gullible masses. It is a display of how the republican party is interested in party-over-country politics and its desperation for power and control.


Your last paragraph says it all.


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posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by Animal
...It is a discussion that supposes Obama is legitimate...


Since there are numerous reports that he was in fact born in Kenya and has yet to provide the long form... You're making a big assumption.

You seem to want a very one-sided 'discussion'.. but I'll play along.

The 'birther' movement's motive is simple... we want, and BY LAW deserve, the TRUTH!

[edit on 23-7-2009 by mecheng]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by mecheng

The 'birther' movement's motive is simple... we want, and BY LAW deserve, the TRUTH!

[edit on 23-7-2009 by mecheng]


That supposes that the STATE of Hawai'i is complicit in the deceit of the people of the USA.

The State of Hawaii has said itself the the form provided by Obama is a legitimate copy of a birth certificate and that it is indeed true that he was born in Hawai'i.

The truth is and has been in the public realm for quite some time.

As such the motivation for the birther movement is by default NOT about the 'truth' it is about something else.

It is one thing for the masses to question this reality as the asses are bombarded by contradictory information from a plethora of sources.

Therefore there exists a high level conspiracy whose motivation is about something else.

If it is not the act of weakening the current president by making him appear as illegitimate what then is it?



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by mecheng
 

Yes BUT based on the responses and attitudes of at least those posting here on ATS Obama could produce a birth certificate signed by God himself and you guys would find something wrong with it.

He has produced enough to be certified by the board of elections or he would not have been able to run in the first place.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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www.newsmax.com...


He has spent nearly $1 Million dollars in legal fees to keep this sealed away from the people. IF there is no issue, what not release the actual Birth Certificate? This is "supposed" to be a "transparent" administration. Why all the secrecy. He has released absolutely nothing. Yet people still continue to hang on every word he has to say. Blind leading the blind.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by Doom and Gloom
 

If you are the subject of a lawsuit you spend money on lawyers.


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posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by Animal
The State of Hawaii has said itself the the form provided by Obama is a legitimate copy of a birth certificate and that it is indeed true that he was born in Hawai'i.

No they didn't. They just said that they have a copy of a birth certificate for Obama in their vault and that he is the only one that can authorize viewing it (or perhaps a court order).

They never verified that he was an American born citizen.


Originally posted by grover
He has produced enough to be certified by the board of elections or he would not have been able to run in the first place.

You ASSUME so. What exactly did he show the 'board of elections'??
Was it that fake COB that was on the internet? If they accepted that
then they are idiots.

Can you find, and post, exactly what he showed and to whom he showed it?


Originally posted by Animal
It is a discussion that supposes Obama is legitimate and questions the motive for this movement in this context.


That makes no sense.

All you want is a 'bash those who question Obama's birth certificate' thread. If you put as a guideline for this thread that 'Obama is legitimate' and you want the discussion to be about those who say Obama isn't legitimate, ... then you just want a one sided echo chamber.

The MOTIVE for those who say Obama hasn't proven his citizenship or that Obama is hiding his Birth Certificate is that HE IS NOT LEGITIMATE or THAT HE'S HIDING SOMETHING. THAT is the motive. Your guidelines for the thread do not allow for the motive to be stated. It only allows for opinions outside of the true motive.

Question - What's the point of the thread then?

Answer - The only answer to that question is that ya'll just want to come up with reasons, other than the truth, about why people question 'The One'.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 

Flyer why do you even care? You yourself said on another thread that you believed that he was a citizen.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by grover
Flyer why do you even care? You yourself said on another thread that you believed that he was a citizen.


I believe he was probably born in Hawaii.
I also SEE that he's hiding something.
(that's pretty obvious)

But I did ask you for a reason. You said that he showed a board proof that he was an American and they said it was okay for him to be POTUS. I've wondered about how this works. From your statement it sounds like you know.

What was the board?
What did he show?
Does everyone have to show proof of eligibility to this board?
Who is on the board?

I'd like to know. You said it with such conviction that it sounds like you know about this. So please ..... educate me. Tell me about the board, who is on it, and what obama (and everyone else) must show to be approved. Thank you.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by Doom and Gloom
 


Birth Certificate here latimesblogs.latimes.com...

Perhaps you and your kind need to prove he was not born in Honolulu Hawaii on August 4, 1961 at 7:24 pm.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by Animal
 


On to the topic of this wonderful thread. I think that the "birthers" simply can not wrap the idea of a black man sitting in the White house around their minds. I honestly believe it is deep down racism that blocks any rational thinking. The paradigm was placed within them when they were young and shedding it from their minds requires reflection.

It is one of the more irrational things that I have seen displayed by my fellow countrymen.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 

By law you have to be certified eligible to run for office...any office and the higher it is the more is required...

At the local level all that is really required is that you not be a felon or be dishonorably discharged from the military and that you live where you are running. You of course have to be a citizen but being born here is not a requirement.

There used to be financial requirements...before that there were property requirements...gender requirements...race requirements etc.

I still think that you have to have enough signatures per state to get your name on the ballot so you have to prove that you are a viable candidate...which is what kills most 3rd party candidates.

As it goes the other major requirement for the high office of president and vice president is that you be a natural born citizen as opposed to granted a citizen.

So, you have to produce proof...to the officials in charge of such things...so all of the candidates running even in the primaries had to produce such documents to even be allowed to run.

www.sbe.virginia.gov/cms/documents/.../08PresGen_BAL_ACSS.pdf


[edit on 23-7-2009 by grover]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Animal
The State of Hawaii has said itself the the form provided by Obama is a legitimate copy of a birth certificate and that it is indeed true that he was born in Hawai'i.

No they didn't. They just said that they have a copy of a birth certificate for Obama in their vault and that he is the only one that can authorize viewing it (or perhaps a court order).

They never verified that he was an American born citizen.


I will post this for you again and will highlight the relevant information for you.


HONOLULU (AP) State officials say there's no doubt Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Friday she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.
link

There is no real doubt on this issue. This is what makes me curious why the 'gatekeepers' are keeping this drama alive.


Originally posted by FlyersFan


Originally posted by Animal
It is a discussion that supposes Obama is legitimate and questions the motive for this movement in this context.


That makes no sense.

All you want is a 'bash those who question Obama's birth certificate' thread.


It makes PERFECT sense. I want to discuss the rational behind the conspiracy i see in this issue.

There is plenty of evidence to say Obama is natural born and very very little, if any, to say other wise.

Therefore this is a legitimate conspiracy topic. Dont like it? Then dont play, please.

[edit on 23-7-2009 by Animal]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
I think that the "birthers" simply can not wrap the idea of a black man sitting in the White house around their minds. I honestly believe it is deep down racism that blocks any rational thinking.


:shk:
:shk: Jeeeeze .. someone played the race card! :shk:
:shk:



Originally posted by Witness2008
Birth Certificate here latimesblogs.latimes.com...
Perhaps you and your kind need to prove he was not born in Honolulu Hawaii on August 4, 1961 at 7:24 pm.

Perhaps you and your kind need to prove that he WAS born in the USA.
That document has been debunked completely.
Jay McKinnon admitted making the forgery.
Where have YOU been?????



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by grover
So, you have to produce proof...to the officials in charge of such things...

Yes ... I get that. I'm asking you ... WHO are the officials 'in charge of such things' for verifying that the POTUS is indeed eligible? Who are they? What were they shown?



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by Animal
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They said that they have his birth certificate in the vault.
They have not verified that he's an American born citizen.
I happen to think he was born in Hawaii, but they have not said that.

My daughter was born in Bolivia and was adopted here in the USA. Her original birth certificate is in a gov't vault in Atlanta, Georgia (where her paperwork was processed) even though she was born in Santa Cruz Bolivia.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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Personally, I think this whole saga goes further than just the birth certificate...

of late it appears that anyone who questions the direction Obama is taking us in is either profiting from whatever cause he is trying to fix or a bigot and a racist. (see above poster comments, Witness2008)

Talk about silencing debate!?!...I thought thats what this country was supposed to be about...we have differing opinions on the way forward, we club each other over our respective heads with arguments until we reach a palatable middle ground. And on we go to the next thorny issue.

To silence dissension creates a very myopic solution to a problem.

I have a question for Obama's supporters, why with this particular man, are dissenting voices linked with fringe movement/elements...why are people who question his policies referred to in terms like racist, bigot, birther, teabagger, redneck , and the list goes on.

Why would you purposely deride almost half the voting population (Obama 53%, McCain 46%)...

I guess I'm asking, along with quite a few Americans, whats really going on here?

[edit on 23-7-2009 by deadbang]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by Animal
 


On to the topic of this wonderful thread. I think that the "birthers" simply can not wrap the idea of a black man sitting in the White house around their minds.


While I do not think that this sentiment represents all of those in the birther movement I do believe that it is representative of some in the movement.

The idea of painting Obama as 'illegitimate' and as an 'outsider' done though questioning if he is even a true American citizen is the pinnacle of segregation.

I think that there are two ways this plays out for those who are approaching this from a racial point of view. 1, there is a deep resentment of colored people that causes those in this roll to consciously question his validity. 2, there are those who dont care about the truth and simply want to weaken this 'black' mans right to be in office and his power to excersize the power of his office fully.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I did not play the race card. There are racist in this country and I see them everywhere. My personal observations added with honesty brought me to the conclusion that birthers are racist.

Would you care to show me the evidence that the birth certificate I linked was proven a forgery?

Here is another link...again the same birth certificate and a couple of added links to his marriage certificate and legal reviews.

www.politifact.com...





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