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The Conspiracy To Twist Bible Verses To Suit Their Antigay Agenda - Romans 1:26-27

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posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

People are getting tired of these threads. If you were to act like other fetish groups and keep a low profile, then you would not be fighting and arguing with the majority all the time.




It goes both ways.
The argument won't end until both sides stop arguing.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by OnlyHuman]




posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


Its not hard to say the entire bible is full of verses which condemn homosexuality.

If you want to try and say the bible allows for it in some cases, you are plainly wrong. It is like trying to say that stealing is ok in some cases. Its just not true. From the bible point of view, God has declared homosexualiy a SIN.



Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be decieved: Neither the sexually immoral nor the idolaters not adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards not slanderers nor swindelers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. BUT you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our GOD. 1 Corinthians 6 : 9-11


The bible is clear cut on its position AGAINST these things. You can try to twist the words all you like, but IMO it is black and white. However keep in mind, none of us are any better than a homosexual. You and me, we are both guilty of something on that list, or something else.



There is no one righteous, not even one: there in no one who understands, no one who seeks GOD. All have turned away, they have together become worthless: there is no one who does good, not even one. Romans 3 : 10-12



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by iulslion
 



You can try to twist the words all you like, but IMO it is black and white


No. It's not twisting words. Those that follow the english version of the bible are the ones that believe in twisted words, badly translated from their original hebrew!

The bible does not mention homosexuality at all. That word never existed in Hebrew
That's been added by man, not god.

Read my previous posts to find out what the hebrew scholars say about homosexuality in the bible. They're the only people you can trust to tell you what the bible really says

[edit on 24-7-2009 by Nammu]



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by Nammu
 


I do not need to read the bible to know that its not natural. Its wrong. Forget what the bible says and listen to what your gut tells you.

You can argue all you like, that the words didnt exist at the time. It doesnt matter, the deed did. And it found its way into the bible for a reason. Its easy for someone who doesnt believe in half the bible to debunk the rest, when they dont understand what the bible is.

It is not just a book, it is a living word. Any translation you make will leave the essence untouched. People have tried for centuries to twist its words, but they are still there. Plain for all to see.

Our bible is what we have to go by, you don't understand the language it was originally written in, you probably only no English. I know 3 languages, and I understand how they work. Most languages dont have a word for homosexual, and theres a good reason - because its taboo!

[edit on 24-7-2009 by iulslion]



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by iulslion
 





I do not need to read the bible to know that its not natural. Its wrong. Forget what the bible says and listen to what your gut tells you.


That's why some atheists are very much against it, they just know.

If there are any on ATS that feel this way, please speak up and make your opinion heard, but also explain why, since you will not have the bible or God to back up your personal opinions.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


Contextually speaking, the Bible is against homosexuality, but not in the context that most people mistakenly and ignorantly interpret it.

I took Greek for high school, where I was homeschooled, so I learned how to both interpret the Bible, as well as interpret context of the meaning behind the stories of the book.

Please, do not forget, the Bible, was written by men, as well as the Council of Nicea chose what books were going to be included, so before anyone (not directed at anyone in particular there) goes off half-cocked about anything in a book that was printed thousands of years ago, and then continually re-printed without all of the books that could have been included, you need to remember that it is and has been a highly controversial topic for a very long time.


The First Council of Nicaea was a council of Christian bishops convened in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day İznik in Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325.

The Council was historically significant as the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.


Not only this, there were two different meetings of the Council of Nicea.


The Second Council of Nicaea was the seventh ecumenical council of Christianity[1] , and the last to be accepted by both Eastern and Western churches.

It met in 787 AD in Nicaea (site of the First Council of Nicaea; present-day İznik in Turkey) to restore the honoring of icons (or, holy images), which had been suppressed by imperial edict inside the Byzantine Empire during the reign of Leo III (717 - 741).

His son, Constantine V (741 - 775), had held a synod to make the suppression official.


According to the way I understand it, God forbade homosexuality, not on the basis of the act being "evil" and you would go straight to Hell for committing the act, but on the basis of his laws about "being frutiful and multiplying" and replenishing the Earth.

In this context, it is about making more babies, as a man and woman lay together in the marriage bed, and create more children, that God sees this as a good thing because of the desire to create more population upon the face of the planet.

If you think about it, and really do some investigating of the Bible, and I have, you will understand that "God", if you believe in Him, does not want the population to stagnate and die off.

An example of this would be in Sodom and Gomorrah, where homosexuality and lesbianism were practiced with regularity, and if it continued to do so, the popluation of this town would have died off eventually.

Consider if you will all the jokes about inbreeding in any state, and how this creates malformed babies, and ignorant understanding of incest as an example as well.

According to my Greek teacher, a man who was both a Greek and Hebrew student and teacher, every story in the Bible has a story behind it, and its interpretation is unique.

As the common society grows, it does not delve into the Bible and the roots of the stories, but generally speaking it follows a pastor, or preacher, and does not bother to go into the infinite details that are involved in the making of the book that is a re-telling of stories that was originally told via verbal stories.

Originally, the stories of Adam and Eve, Moses, and Joseph, among other stories, were verbally told by the elders to the populace as lessons as to what to do and what not to do.

To interpret the Bible, from the original Hebrew and Greek languages, you need to have an in depth knowledge of those languages, as well an in depth knowledge of each and every country involved and their interactions with the Hebrews, the laws of both Hebrew and of the nations interacting with them, and that is a very large undertaking in itself.

Most common people, do not want to read that much, and or do not bother to go to religious schooling because they see no need in it, because that is their pastor or preachers job, to teach them.

I have to laugh at some people's complete and utter misunderstanding or lack of knowledge of the Bible when they quote it, or when they refer to someone is going to Hell for commiting a "Hell-bound" sin.

I have heard all of the nonsense spouted by people over the years, and it only makes me happy that I do not attend church, I instead read the book and seek out knowledge whenever and wherever I can attain it.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by grapesofraft
 


Leviticus also says you should keep your women out in the barn with the animals when they are menstruating. How many Christians observe that?

I do not get the sense that the Bible would chastise only Temple prostitutes. And I really do not get why only gay men get some at the temple. What about hetero men? How come they do not get any?



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by iulslion
 





I do not need to read the bible to know that its not natural. Its wrong. Forget what the bible says and listen to what your gut tells you.


That's why some atheists are very much against it, they just know.

If there are any on ATS that feel this way, please speak up and make your opinion heard, but also explain why, since you will not have the bible or God to back up your personal opinions.


You are right Blue Jay.

Of course, I DO believe what the Bible says, and I DO believe that God inspired men to write what became the Bible, and I DO believe that God protected the Bible from corruption, as He said He would.

BUT.......for anyone else who doesn't believe, check out the following quotes from an article about homosexuality/lesbianism,

(or *man lying with man as with woman*, and *woman lying with woman as with man*, for those who stress that the Bible doesn't mention homosexuality)

and the many negative effects, all documented with references.




* Homosexuals got homosexuality removed from the list of mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric Association (APA) conference on successive years. "Guerrilla theater tactics and more straight-forward shouting matches characterized their presence" (2). Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mental illnesses, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels "subjective distress") (27).

* Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in the United States (5). They make up only 1-2% of the population.

* Homosexuals live unhealthy lifestyles, and have historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the "gay bowel syndrome" (which attacks the intestinal tract), tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus (27).

* 73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization (13).

* 25-33% of homosexuals and lesbians are alcoholics (11).

* Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film "The Castro", one minute stands) (3). Also, it is a favorite past-time of many homosexuals to go to "cruisy areas" and have anonymous sex.

* 78% of homosexuals are affected by STDs (20).

* Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court has said, "Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities" (10).

* Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police says, "30,000 sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals" (10).


This is just part of it. A link to the rest of the article is below.
Statistics on Homosexuals

Let me just say, I have known homosexuals on and off throughout my life, and they were nice people for the most part, like all other groups, there are good and bad, but I would have to say it is wrong and destructive, if asked what my opinion of it is. And I would say the same thing about adultery, living together without being married, etc.

Like all, I have done things in my life that I now know God would not approve, and I asked forgiveness, and I don't do those things anymore. I also speak out against those destructive behaviors, and I tell people, I KNOW how destructive certain behaviors are, because I did some of those things

Bless You



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by grapesofraft
 


Ok well then what do you say to Deuteronomy 22:13-21 - If you find your wife to be not a virgin you can take her to her father's doorstep and the whole town will stone her to death. Do we take that literally as well? Thankfully not.
Or read the next paragraph:
"If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die". I'm glad society doesn't allow Religion to dictate our laws.
Or what about Mark 9:43
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off" Surely you have "sinned" with your hand numerous times? I know I did just last night

What makes you NOT take this literally (when it was supposedly said by Jesus - son of your god) and decide you think the homosexual verses are deemed to be invoked in every day life. YOU decided...not god, or Jesus. YOU, because you don't like it. That is the end of the story. People use religious mumbo-jumbo to back up their own personal ideas and opinions.
What about God slaying men and then their children as well - Just like when someone gets capital punishment, we make sure their kids get put down as well...NOT. Your hypocrisy undermines any argument you raise against gay people. Logic 1 - Religion FAIL

[edit on 24-7-2009 by makinho21]



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


Thank you Byrd for bringing new information. I have learned something new.



Paul's scholarship is pretty shoddy, as I said.


I never thought of that. I don't think I have ever seen anybody criticizing the authors of the books in the Bible. I guess it comes from being raised in a strict Baptist home. I was taught to never question Bible authors or their scholarships.

This is a new angle to the debate that I will look further into.

I will look more into it. Thanks again.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Deaf Alien
 




You got to ask yourself this: why would Christians intentionally misinterpret Paul's words despite many scholars interpreting to the contrary?


Sorry but no !

What any reasonable intelligent person should ask themselves is this :

Why would an omniscient/omnipresent being need an interpreter to begin with ?


Well, you gotta start somewhere. Ask some basic or obvious questions such as mine will open their eyes and help them to think more about what they believe.

What I see here is that I see some obvious mistakes or misinterpretations by some Christians as to what the Bible says about homosexuality and homosexuals suffer as a consequence. I want to correct that and open their eyes to a bigger world.



If a yawhe god was real to begin with, why on earth would it stick an erogenous zone in a mans' arse.


Good point.



The entire xtian delusional belief system is flawed from the very beginning, the fact that an intercessor is required at every level of their delusion speaks volumes.


Well, you are starting with the bigger issue. Not many people will listen to you. Start small like I did



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by Thought Provoker
At the risk of overloading my poor server... I wrote this essay several years ago in an attempt to put all this crap to rest once and for all in the minds of my parents; it was inconclusively helpful. Perhaps it will be more help here. It's a bit of a long read, but that's because it deals with every Bible verse related to this issue. Those with short attention spans might want to just read the Genesis 19 and Matthew 22 parts. Real thought provokers, as it were.

Open your mind, then open the link, and let the latter wise up the former. Please.


Thanks for sharing your essay. That is a good essay.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by sezsue
 






* Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court has said, "Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities" (10).


I could buy all the stats. you posted but this one, it sounds unrealistic to me, unless these gang banger drug dealers are gay too.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by iulslion
 


Folks who pursue certain activities are always trying to work an angle and justify their behavior.

Assuming - and I really mean that - assuming the Bible is to be a standard or moral guideline - we find that God never, ever changes.

The same things he considers an abomination yesterday, he considers an abomination today, and it will still be an abomination tomorrow.

The Bible is not a contradiction, thus that which is found in the Old Testament is largely fulfilled in the New Testament.

Really no use in Christ going over these previous specifics as they've already been covered.

There's not going to be any lawyers at the judgment. No technicalities. No reversals.

Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow.

Some things do not change.

His things.

And our opinions matter not one whit.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:00 PM
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I am a queer former Christian (and a current seminary student), and am working my way through all the posts in this thread before I repeat something you've already covered. You're doing a good job so far, and I'll add my two cents worth if necessary after I've seen what all posters participating have had to say. So far, though, you've got my full support as you seem the be the only one reading the Bible contextually rather than if it was written yesterday.

Peace,
Daniel



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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Just a simple question: was God's word originally recorded in King James English? Does it really make any sense to say that God's word does not change when it was originally orally passed on (if it was really "God's word" at all in the first place) in ancient Hebrew, and has since passed through no fewer than 5 languages and thousands of translations? If you'd like, I can supply a list of quite important doctrines in English translations that have been altered from the original Aramaic, Greek or Hebrew.

Peace,
Daniel



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:19 PM
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First, with what we're learning about homosexual orientation, should we take verses that may be prohibiting homosexual acts written more than 2000 years ago and apply them to the modern phenomenon of homosexuality? Should we assume that whoever wrote Leviticus (I doubt it was Moses) knew more about human sexuality than we do today? [By the way, if one is arguing from a standpoint of plenary verbal inspiration, there's not much progress that can be made in a conversation such as this, since one side pretty much already has their mind made up.]

Second, whether or not the Bible condemns fornication of any kind really depends on where in the Bible one is looking. There are stories littered through scripture of great men and women (at least in the eyes of the authors of the stories) who were less than virtuous in the modern Christian fundamentalist moral construct. The Bible is not homogeneous in any sense when it comes to sexuality in particular or morality in general.

Peace,
Daniel



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:27 PM
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Almost every single English translation of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 is crap. The word homosexual was not even used until the 19th century. How could a word that wasn't dreamed of until 1800 years after the original word in another language was written be a perfect translation? Arsenakatoi is the original word, and before the word "homosexual" was derived, was translated loosely as "temple prostitute." STOP reading the Bible as if it is modern literature.

Peace,
Daniel



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:32 PM
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You sure do have a loose definition of "fact." I'm all for independent thinking, but spewing subjective opinions as if they are established facts sort of ignores the responsibility that most people believe comes with the right to think independently. Do yourself (and us) a favor and try to use language a bit more precisely.

Peace,
Daniel



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by pdpayne0418
First, with what we're learning about homosexual orientation, should we take verses that may be prohibiting homosexual acts written more than 2000 years ago and apply them to the modern phenomenon of homosexuality?


"Modern phenomenon of homosexuality"? (emphasis added) Huh? You mean that gay guys were doing something different than 2,000 years ago? Seems to me that they were, basically, doing the same thing that gay guys are doing today. Or was there a different form of homosexuality back then? Please inform me with the subtle intricacies of this....


Originally posted by pdpayne0418
Should we assume that whoever wrote Leviticus (I doubt it was Moses) knew more about human sexuality than we do today?

Certainly not. We all know more about sexuality and human nature because people 2,000 years ago were completely ignorant about what was going on around them. They had NO IDEA about mating a male and a female to achieve offspring. They certainly didn't know about normal human relations. HA! Those ignorant savages - they didn't even have the interweb!


Originally posted by pdpayne0418
[By the way, if one is arguing from a standpoint of plenary verbal inspiration, there's not much progress that can be made in a conversation such as this, since one side pretty much already has their mind made up.]


Again: Huh? I understand what you are getting at - by why didn't you just say so?!

(methinks I smell a budding flower of Graduate School in the garden, tempting the bees with its educated pollen)



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