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The Conspiracy To Twist Bible Verses To Suit Their Antigay Agenda - Romans 1:26-27

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posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


I find religion interesting. I was just surprised at the replies. I am all for the freedom of speech and ideas. I really wanted to see more replies defending homosexuality. I really thought there would be a lot more people who did not see it as a sin.


The bible says it is a sin and they will not enter heaven. I can't help that. I'm just stating a fact.

Another fact is it's just a learned behavior....a fetish for same sex sexual gratification. The behavior and practice is a paraphilia.

Another fact is the majority find it disgusting when shoved in our faces.

Another fact is the practice leads to hemorrhoids, other internal damage, and spreads harmful bacteria and disease.

Another fact is the practice mocks humanity's ability to procreate.

Another fact is their fetish does not give them the right to force their fetish down our throats and openly offend us with indecent acts such as those many of us have seen that are done out in the open at their parades, marches, rallies, and celebrations held in public places.

They are not a special sub race of people. They are just people with a same sex fetish.

Those who are offended by those who practice this same sex fetish are usually only offended when they see it being forced on themselves or others, or when our children get molested by one or more of them.


[edit on 23/7/09 by John Matrix]


Blue Jay 35, if you want a defense of homosexuality I'l give you a couple. I am gay. I assure with and without any question I was born this way the way I was born right-handed. I'm 48 and most of my life I would have given almost any thing not to be gay. It makes your life so incredibly complicated. Any one who claims some one has to be taught to be gay is an idiot. Then you have the issues with family, friends. You have discrimination. Who in their right mind would want that? I know some people who say "well animals are never gay". Wrong again. A History channel program, (I think history ch, one of those any way) showed we have gay activity in a number of animals. We don't know why, but lack of opposite sex mates seems to be a driving factor. Kind of reminds you of prison.




posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by arbiture

Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


I find religion interesting. I was just surprised at the replies. I am all for the freedom of speech and ideas. I really wanted to see more replies defending homosexuality. I really thought there would be a lot more people who did not see it as a sin.


The bible says it is a sin and they will not enter heaven. I can't help that. I'm just stating a fact.

Another fact is it's just a learned behavior....a fetish for same sex sexual gratification. The behavior and practice is a paraphilia.

Another fact is the majority find it disgusting when shoved in our faces.

Another fact is the practice leads to hemorrhoids, other internal damage, and spreads harmful bacteria and disease.

Another fact is the practice mocks humanity's ability to procreate.

Another fact is their fetish does not give them the right to force their fetish down our throats and openly offend us with indecent acts such as those many of us have seen that are done out in the open at their parades, marches, rallies, and celebrations held in public places.

They are not a special sub race of people. They are just people with a same sex fetish.

Those who are offended by those who practice this same sex fetish are usually only offended when they see it being forced on themselves or others, or when our children get molested by one or more of them.


[edit on 23/7/09 by John Matrix]


Blue Jay 35, if you want a defense of homosexuality I'l give you a couple. I am gay. I assure with and without any question I was born this way the way I was born right-handed. I'm 48 and most of my life I would have given almost any thing not to be gay. It makes your life so incredibly complicated. Any one who claims some one has to be taught to be gay is an idiot. Then you have the issues with family, friends. You have discrimination. Who in their right mind would want that? I know some people who say "well animals are never gay". Wrong again. A History channel program, (I think history ch, one of those any way) showed we have gay activity in a number of animals. We don't know why, but lack of opposite sex mates seems to be a driving factor. Kind of reminds you of prison.


Animals are surrounded by sin just like we are. When Adam and Eve fell into sin 6 000 years ago animals did, too.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by arbiture
 


Hi arbiture/

The Scriptures state quite clearly that the "wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). Not the wages of some sin, but the wages of all sin.
Clearly this means that we do not pick and choose what God sees proper for all mankind!
Each person differs in SINS and the wages(penalty)of this is death...death is being away from God.
When Adam and Eve and the geneartion thereafter died,they all went to hades(away from God,no Resurrection as Christ only did this two thousand years ago)After Jesus Christ was Crucified and Resurrected,He DESTROYED death for all of mankind!
What we do with our lives now,we shall also reap in the after life.
I do not write the Scriptures and interpret them...I dont particularly like all, but who am I to go changing Scripture to fit in with my lifestyle?
The struggle of ones PASSIONS(many different sins) is part of uniting ones being with Christ,doing all you can to be like Christ was...therefore Homosexual relationships are viewed in the same way as an everyday struggle against such passions eg/adultry is viwed much the same...
~EASTERN ORTHODOX VIEW OF SIN~

Marriage was sanctified by God....defcon made a reference here!



Jesus teaches mercy and forgiveness for all sinners, but the Lord does not justify sin. When the Son of God pronounces divine pardon to those caught in evil he always charges the forgiven sinner to "go and sin no more" (John 8:11).
SOURCE


take care,
ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:05 PM
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okay first off laptop keyboards/mouse SUCKS!!!!! this is my third time reposting cause it keeps going back mid post to five pages before this one....lets try this one more time..

this entire thing with the bible and god being against homosexuality just disgusts me. if this god is supposed to be so forgiving, loving and caring how can he put someone in hell that worshiped and spread his word and love cause of their sexual orientation. Just imagine, a gay couple just died in a car crash together are standing in front of him and he looks at them disgusted and says.."yes you worshiped me unfailingly and prayed daily and asked for forgivness and shared my word with many but....your the same sex having sex and thats just nasty and i dont like it so go to hell both of you!"

the bible IS the conspiricy as far as im concerned. sure its a nice set of morals for people to go by but i've known too many that judge people cause they have a different lifestyle...even though it says in the bible judge not lest ye be judged..so if they are gonna go by one thing in the bible and not another then they are hypocrites...period...and arent real "christians" you cant pick and choose what you want to go by if your going to follow and be part of a religion....its repulsive..

blessed be to all and love all around!

[edit on 23-7-2009 by tasim]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by tasim
 




this entire thing with the bible and god being against homosexuality just disgusts me. if this god is supposed to be so forgiving, loving and caring how can he put someone in hell that worshiped and spread his word and love cause of their sexual orientation. Just imagine, a gay couple just died in a car crash together are standing in front of him and he looks at them disgusted and says.."yes you worshiped me unfailingly and prayed daily and asked for forgivness and shared my word with many but....your the same sex having sex and thats just nasty and i dont like it so go to hell both of you!"


It doesn't matter how many works you do, if you haven't been saved by Christ then you are destined to Hell. It's not just homosexuality that sends people there, either. It's lying, stealing, murdering, blasphemy, idolatry, etc. God doesn't condemn people to Hell and He doesn't want them to go there. People choose Hell by ignoring Christ's gift of salvation that He offered 2000 years ago on the cross.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 KJV

In your response you mentioned that the gay couple asked for forgiveness. They might've asked for forgiveness, but did they repent? I can't judge people's hearts (that's God's job), but accepting Christ's salvation also means repenting; turning away from sin and trying not commit any.

Think of it this way. If you were in court for murder, the evidence pointed to you and everyone knew you did it, could the judge just say, "That's alright, I forgive you." and let you go? Of course not. You committed the crime and you have to pay for that.

Sin is the crime and because of it we all belong in Hell. But 2000 years ago, God sent His son Jesus, a perfect, sinless man, to die for us, to pay for the crimes we've committed, so we wouldn't have to perish in Hell.

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" Romans 3:23-24 KJV

[edit on 23-7-2009 by Totakeke]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
If a woman has sex with another man "without her husband's consent", it is sin. But, if she has sex with another man "with her husbands consent", I believe it is not sin. In my view, Adultery is sex outside of marriage only when it's done without consent of all involved. If anyone thinks I am wrong, then they must also accept that Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar are all enjoying an eternity in HELL right now. You can also add Moses, David, and Solomon to the list that are enjoying their barbeque in Hell for having sex with hundreds of women throughout their lives(maybe even thousands).



wow, i dont know what bible you are reading.

so your saying because abraham did it so can you? or perhaps david? no wait, god directly condemned david for adultery!

just because god tolerated something doesnt mean its ok.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by arbiture
I have to ask a question of those opposed to gay marrige. Just what is going to happen if a bunch of gay people get married?


nothing, they get married and everyone gets on with their life.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by KiliRae
I appreciate you getting a tad off topic for me and explaining what Jesus really meant. Or at least how his words have been translated and handed down.
But the OP has just as much a valid point that it seems many Christians take certain passages completely out of context, while ignoring others. Isn't there a passage about eating shellfish and being stoned in the Old Testament? If Christians are going to lash out at the homosexuals then why not lash out at the Red Lobster crowd?
I have to run out but yes I ll look up the verse I am referring too and either correct myself or post it. If someone beats me to it. Thanks!


Hi all, interesting conversation going on here. I haven't quite read the whole thread yet, but wanted to comment on this one, KiliRae.

Actually, God changed the food laws several times throughout the bible.

In Genesis, in the beginning, He gave man and woman "every seed bearing herb" and seed bearing fruit from trees for "meat".

After the flood, He gave Noah permission to eat meat.

After bringing His people out of Egypt, He gave different instructions to Moses regarding what might be eaten, and what might NOT be eaten.

This particular reference you made above, WAS addressed and rescinded in the New Testament, in ACTS 15 (and also addressed in other parts of the New Testament, in regard to whether gentiles should be circumcised and follow the food laws of Moses (different from the 10 commandments, which God personally wrote).



1And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.



4And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


so they wrote a letter clarifying the matter:



24Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. 30So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle: 31Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.




And Deaf Alien,

Notice how it states to refrain from fornication as well in here........fornication would include any sexual behavior outside of marriage, including living together, prostitution, adultery, bestiality, AND homosexuality.

Just about verything in the Bible from beginning to end indicates the only sexual activity taking place should be in marriage AND between a man and a woman ONLY.

In the Old Testament, polygamy was tolerated by God for a time, but in the New Testament, Jesus made it clear that the preferred situation is marriage between one man and one woman.

Jesus Himself stated a man shall leave his family and cleave to his wife. The wedding at Cana, where Jesus performed his first miracle, was between a bride and bridegroom.

In Jude, in the New Testament, it says this


1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: 2Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied. 3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.


Sorry, Deaf Alien, I have to disagree with you.

Scholars can say what they want, but they are not God, and God's word is pretty clear, don't do it.

God Bless



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Your sexcapades scenario is sin, because in your scenario you go out and get drunk, cheat on your wife, and ask for forgiveness with the intent of doing it again and again.

What if you and your wife consent to have sex with another couple (swap)? Or what if your wife wants to have sex with another man while you watch? Or, what if you want your wife to have sex with another man while you watch? Or what if your wife wants to watch you with another woman? What if you belong to a group of friends that engage in consensual group sex? These are all legitimate questions because this is going on all over the world. Just look at some of the adult friend finder sites and the millions of members they have. So, IMHO, If all consent, it cannot be adultery. Adultery is when a spouse goes off and has sex with another person without the consent of the other spouse. That's a sin because the intent is to hide and deceive your spouse.

In Eskimo culture of the past it was customary for a man to offer his wife to his friend as a bed partner for sex, when his friend came to visit. The Eskimo woman would prepare herself by rubbing whale oil all over herself. If the friend rejected the offer, it was considered a deep insult.

Having pleasure from sex does not equate to putting sex before God any more than breathing does. IMHO. As I stated, if consensual sex was wrong, then an awful lot of men of God from the Bible are burning in Hell right now.

The church needs to get over it's ideology that sex is evil. It's only evil when it's used in an evil manner such as forced rape, or to control a spouse.

According to the Bible, the marriage bed remains undefiled. In other words, there are no limitations when consent is given by all parties, provided that no one is being physically hurt.

With respect to homosexual activity, it is strictly forbidden in scripture.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by John Matrix
If a woman has sex with another man "without her husband's consent", it is sin. But, if she has sex with another man "with her husbands consent", I believe it is not sin. In my view, Adultery is sex outside of marriage only when it's done without consent of all involved. If anyone thinks I am wrong, then they must also accept that Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar are all enjoying an eternity in HELL right now. You can also add Moses, David, and Solomon to the list that are enjoying their barbeque in Hell for having sex with hundreds of women throughout their lives(maybe even thousands).



wow, i dont know what bible you are reading.

so your saying because abraham did it so can you? or perhaps david? no wait, god directly condemned david for adultery!

just because god tolerated something doesnt mean its ok.


David cheated. That's adultery because he did not have his wife's consent to have sex with another women, and he also had that woman's husband killed.....that is why he was chastised. I would not call it condemned either, since God loved David and if David was condemned God would have sent him to hell.

BTW: I have lexicons, concordances, study bibles and all kinds of bibles and books from well known authors. As well, I have a ministerial degree.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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I am about to make a thread called: Twisting the Bible to fit their Gay Agenda.

[edit on 23-7-2009 by jackflap]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by arbiture
Blue Jay 35, if you want a defense of homosexuality I'l give you a couple. I am gay. I assure with and without any question I was born this way the way I was born right-handed. I'm 48 and most of my life I would have given almost any thing not to be gay. It makes your life so incredibly complicated. Any one who claims some one has to be taught to be gay is an idiot. Then you have the issues with family, friends. You have discrimination. Who in their right mind would want that? I know some people who say "well animals are never gay". Wrong again. A History channel program, (I think history ch, one of those any way) showed we have gay activity in a number of animals. We don't know why, but lack of opposite sex mates seems to be a driving factor. Kind of reminds you of prison.


Ahhh!! Try to get your quotes edited so we can see what and who you are really responding to.

1. You were not born that way. That excuse is old. If there is anything different in your brain it is a result of your fetish. Mind over matter remember? With enough mind power, will, desire you can change back....and that is a fact.

2. You are not simply an animal, you are a human being. So stop using animal homo activity to justify your fetish.

3. I'm not anti-same sex fetish. Just keep it private and to yourself and out of my face.


[edit on 23/7/09 by John Matrix]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by sezsue
 


Marriage is simply a consensual agreement made between a man and a woman before God. Sex outside of marriage means sex beyond what the married couple agree to. If they agree to have an orgy with other consenting adults, that is not sex outside of marriage.

As a matter of fact, there are no marriage vows in scripture. There are marriage ceremonies and feasts. It is perfectly possible for married people to have consensual sex with others without breaking their vows, or breaking up their marriages, and without destroying the love they have for each other. In fact, some people claim sharing in sexual experiences with others has made their marriage stronger.


It just burns me up to hear people talk about sex as though it is evil, yet those same people love money, spread rumors, gossip, slander people, lie, cheat, steal, get angry at others for unjust causes, hurt others, cause prejudice, etc.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
The church needs to get over it's ideology that sex is evil. It's only evil when it's used in an evil manner such as forced rape, or to control a spouse.


your equating things that dont equate. what wrong with sex between a man and his wife? is there something lacking that to "enjoy" it they have to go outside the marriage?

sex is not evil, misuse of sex is evil.

keeping sex within the confines of marriage not only builds a bond between the couple, but it also shields them from unwanted consequences. image a man goes to have sex with another woman (even with his wife's consent) and gets her pregnant?

what then?

what if a swinging couple pick up an STD from someone else? what then?

these things put stress on the marriage which is something im sure god never intended.


According to the Bible, the marriage bed remains undefiled. In other words, there are no limitations when consent is given by all parties, provided that no one is being physically hurt.


in other words is right, you basically making the explanation of that passage from thin air.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 04:26 PM
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double post



[edit on 23-7-2009 by miriam0566]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by John Matrix
David cheated. That's adultery because he did not have his wife's consent to have sex with another women, and he also had that woman's husband killed.....that is why he was chastised. I would not call it condemned either, since God loved David and if David was condemned God would have sent him to hell.

BTW: I have lexicons, concordances, study bibles and all kinds of bibles and books from well known authors. As well, I have a ministerial degree.


i find it amazing that the ones with degrees tend to have the most warped opinions on the bible



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 04:36 PM
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# hole is not for love making



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by tasim
...even though it says in the bible judge not lest ye be judged..so if they are gonna go by one thing in the bible and not another then they are hypocrites...period...and arent real "christians" you cant pick and choose what you want to go by if your going to follow and be part of a religion....its repulsive..

blessed be to all and love all around!

[edit on 23-7-2009 by tasim]


There are two types of judging:

1. Judging in the judicial legal sense, which is associated with condemnation.

2. Judging as a "process of evaluation".

We are to evaluate (judge) all things by the spirit of Christ that empowers us to do so. This is how we become people of "sound judgement".



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
Originally posted by John Matrix
The church needs to get over it's ideology that sex is evil. It's only evil when it's used in an evil manner such as forced rape, or to control a spouse.




your equating things that dont equate. what wrong with sex between a man and his wife? is there something lacking that to "enjoy" it they have to go outside the marriage?

sex is not evil, misuse of sex is evil.


Ahhh...that's what I said above. Sex is not evil. Thank you.



keeping sex within the confines of marriage not only builds a bond between the couple, but it also shields them from unwanted consequences. image a man goes to have sex with another woman (even with his wife's consent) and gets her pregnant? what then?


You use birth control pills, condoms, or some other form of birth control, otherwise you live with your consequences.



what if a swinging couple pick up an STD from someone else? what then?


Get a medical check up and insist your friends do to. It also helps to know your play friends. If they have been married a long time and never played before, and they only want to play with you and your spouse, then you should be safe. Obviously, like any relationship honesty and open communication is essential



these things put stress on the marriage which is something im sure god never intended.


Only if you can't handle it. In that case you have nothing to worry about and hopefully you marry a guy that feels the same and niether of you change as you get older. However, many, MANY do change. And they end up divorced.

If it's consensual sex, it cannot be adultery. Adultery involves breaking vows and cheating. You cannot be cheating if it's consensual.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by Nammu
 


That is the most telling thing I have seen on this thread. To have a rabbi tell us exactly what it meant, that's very enlightening. It is almost as interesting that your post got pretty much completely ignored by the usual anti-gay people in favor of their own tired rhetoric. I find it to be very interesting that the name of the book is The Instructions of the Priestly Officiants. That tells me that it is like the rules that the jewish priests are supposed to abide by, similar to the rules catholic priests have rules to abide by. That doesn't mean they apply to everyone. Does all of humanity have to take vows of chastity and celibacy? No. Just the priesthood (and not even all of those?).

Chrono



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