The Conspiracy To Twist Bible Verses To Suit Their Antigay Agenda - Romans 1:26-27

Originally posted by moocowman
Well he went one better then that my friend, he made Adam and Eve the only 2 humans on earth.
Then comes along Cain and Abel.

These 4 humans populated the earth, sounds like the earth was one big pay site for a while.

you forgot cains unnamed wife/sister mentioned in 4:17

and im sure there were plenty of other children that adam and eve had that werent mentioned.

Just found this site:

HOMOSEXUALITY & THE HEBREW BIBLE

As a result of this serious research, Rabbi Steinberg-Caudill is completely convinced that THE ORIGINAL HEBREW TEXTS OF THE TORAH (the Hebrew Chumash - the Five Books of Moses) HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SAY CONCERNING HOMOSEXUALITY AS WE UNDERSTAND THE TERM "HOMOSEXUALITY" TO MEAN IN TODAYS WORLD!

These specific verses read:

(1) Leviticus 18: 22; which states: ואת זכר לא תשכב משכבי אשה תועבה הוא "Do not lie (sexually) with a male like as you would with a woman, since this is an idolatrous perversion (תועבה TOEYVAH)".

And:

(2) Leviticus 20: 13, which states: ואיש אשר ישכב את זכר משכבי אשה תועבה עשו שניהם מות יומתו דמיהם בם "If a man has sexual intercourse with a male person, like as with a woman, they have both committed a תועבה TOEYVAH (aמ idolatrous perversion). Their death is their own fault".

The ORIGINAL LEVITICUS documents of the biblical texts that are today used by the uninformed to deny a spiritual connection to God for homosexuals were not written to address either homosexuals or homosexuality. These documents are actually referring to a prohibition against imitating non-Israelite, foreign CULTIC sexual substitution fertility rituals, and do not condemn anyone who does not use substitutional and/or incestuous sex as a method of gaining Divine favor.

In fact, the text of the Book of Leviticus was originally written as an instruction manual for the priestly tribe, and referred to PRIESTLY prohibitions only. The original name of the Book of Leviticus (which name comes from the Greek Septuagint) was in Hebrew "ספר תורת הכהנים SEFER TORAT HAKOHANIM" (The Instructions of the Priestly Officiants).

reply to post by Nammu


as i said in my previous post, that is a thin thread to hang on since "tow'ebah" has other meaning as well, including moral connotations.

not only that, but several of the verses have nothing to do with temple prostitution or priestly duties (9-12, 14-21). so then why does 13 suddenly apply only to pagan rituals?

another point is that just because this is the book of leviticus, doesnt mean it was only directed to the levites.

[24] But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.

levites werent allowed to inherit land, that was for the other 11 tribes. the separation is talking about the nation as a whole, not just the levites.

the context just doesnt allow for one to simply pass of verse 13 as "ritual prostitution"

added to that is the fact that all fornication (homosexual AND heterosexual) is condemned by the bible

Stop, Look, and Listen!!

There are no homosexuals. Not in the sense that we are being led to believe. You are people like the rest of us. You have same sex desires and fetishes. So what? We ALL have some sort of fetish, like it or not. You people have developed same sex fetishes due to a constellation of events in your lives. At some point in your life the thought came into your head. Then you entertained that thought which gave it root in your mind. The root grew into a tree with many branches growing throughout your mind. You are responsible for that mindset that you allowed to take root and grow. You fed the tree with more thoughts. Then you decided to get support from other people who went through the same thought acceptance process. But that's all it is.....a fetish. It's something you think about and something that turns you on. Great! Have fun with it. But don't force your fetish on the rest of us. Stop trying to control the majority with your fetish by attempting to give yourselves special status, when the only thing that makes you special is nothing more than a sexual fetish. It's a Damned fetish for cripe sakes!!

If you think the bible is wrong, or that it supports your having a same sex fetish(and practicing it....YUCK!!) then go with it....have fun. But leave the rest of us alone and get the hell out of our faces because some of us puke at the thought of what you even do in private.

Sure, proctologists love you because they get paid for hemorrhoid operations when you damage each other by the way you pretend to have sex, which mocks the human ability to procreate.

People are getting tired of these threads. If you were to act like other fetish groups and keep a low profile, then you would not be fighting and arguing with the majority all the time.

Haven't you got anything better to do? I mean come on!! Is that all you ever think about is a same sex fetish? What? You want to convince the rest of society that it's great, fun, acceptable, so you can have more sex partners? Is that it? Go away!

You can think about same sex and still inherit the Kingdome of Heaven. You can even have same sex thoughts, and still enter the Kingdome of Heaven. But if you are practicing same sex, you will Not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

Play your word games however you want, but the Bible is clear on that.

reply to post by miriam0566


I'm not sure how you define fornicators. I suspect you are using the term to describe sex outside of marriage, therefore I would like to say the following:

Many old testament men of God had hundreds of wives and sex slaves(concubines) and maid servants(more sex slaves). Sex is not evil when all parties involved consent to it. If a woman has sex with another man "without her husband's consent", it is sin. But, if she has sex with another man "with her husbands consent", I believe it is not sin. In my view, Adultery is sex outside of marriage only when it's done without consent of all involved. If anyone thinks I am wrong, then they must also accept that Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar are all enjoying an eternity in HELL right now. You can also add Moses, David, and Solomon to the list that are enjoying their barbeque in Hell for having sex with hundreds of women throughout their lives(maybe even thousands).

I don't believe fornication in the bible sense has anything to do with sex or sex outside of marriage. Fornication is idol worship and turning your back on god. IMHO.

Sex is not evil unless the intent of the heart is evil, as in cheating on a spouse, or marrying someone just to appear good in the eyes of the church, while really just marrying for money or some other selfish reason.

What is evil is: covetousness, envy, pride, gossip, lies, jealousy, being angry at people without a just cause, deliberately harming people, selfishness.

I found it funny that the part that is used as anti-gay also says things like you're not allowed to cut your hair from your temples. You're not allowed to work on sundays. You're not allowed to plant 2 different things in one field etc. etc. All these 'offences' would be punishable by stoning. They conviniently forget all the other ones except the gay one

This is really crazy, to try to justify a practice some people want to say oh the bible doesn't really say that. Or that scripture does not apply. Or since we aren't under the mosaic law we don't have pay attention to that part of the bible. News Flash, God's idea's of morality didn't change as soon as Jesus came to the earth, we just received an infinitely higher level of forgiveness.
Murder, Adultery, Fornication, Homosexuality are all still wrong in God's eyes, that never changed.

I will say what the another poster said, do what ever you want, freedom of choice that God gave us. But don't ever try to force twisted idea's onto the bible, JUST DISAGREE WITH IT, and move on.

Oh and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 has never ever been debunked nor will it be in the future, only in the minds of those that mentally and emotionally need it debunked. In fact right within the scripture it acknowledges that some would try to fool themselves or allow their reasoning skills to deceive themselves on this topic, God knew some would try to debunk it that's why it's in there.

(Amplified Bible)

9Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality, 10Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God. 11And such some of you were [once]. But you were washed clean (purified by a complete atonement for sin and made free from the guilt of sin), and you were consecrated (set apart, hallowed), and you were justified [pronounced righteous, by trusting] in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the [Holy] Spirit of our God.

Other versions of just that verse

(New Living Translation)

9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,

(New International Version)

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

(New International Reader's Version)

9 Don't you know that evil people will not receive God's kingdom? Don't be fooled. Those who commit sexual sins will not receive the kingdom. Neither will those who worship statues of gods or commit adultery. Neither will men who are prostitutes or who commit homosexual acts.

It's very very clear, disagree with it, hate it, but never say it isn't in there because your just turning a blind eye to the fact that it is.

Enough of the harsh negatives, now for the good news, all can be forgiven as the scripture says that is what some of you were. Somebody could be a homosexual for 30 years, and God will still forgive them, if they just stop.
Under the mosaic law, 1 act of homosexuality would get you stoned to death.
But now we have tremendous leeway for forgiveness through the ransom sacrifice of Jesus.
In the end our attitude toward any sin is more important than the sin itself.

And incidentally in almost every scripture in the bible, Adultery is right there alongside homosexuality, those sins are equal in God's eyes. And they are equal in my eyes, both unnatural sins that are in need of repentance and forgiveness.
I find it strange that nobody ever tries to argue against the Adultery part, it is clearly accepted as being a fact within the bible. A point to ponder.

[edit on 23-7-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

[edit on 23-7-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Hi Blue_/
Well said...
All forms of wrong doings are sins in the eyes of God.
The need of a Saviour was so that man can be reunited with God again.
Because of Adam breaking Gods Commandment,man was no longer one with God...this caused DEATH of the body to occur and also caused mind,body and soul to change of which it was intended.
The creation of man was made in the IMAGE of God...Adam being the first man was created in His Image...Eve was created from Adam.
The Body of man was created to live eternally...but DEATH occured as a result of man breaking Gods Commandment,which also caused the Mind and soul to turn away from God..SIN(which literally means to 'break away')
Therefore we ALL sin in Gods eyes.
Can it be helped?
Yes,but it is a struggle and it needs constant attention as this is mans human nature...all sins differ with each person.
To actually state that we are not sinners,is directly lying to God.
All sins can be forgiven but not the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not!

ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by helen670
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

 

To actually state that we are not sinners,is directly lying to God.
All sins can be forgiven but not the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not!

ICXC NIKA
helen

We are all sinners, but God does not see believers as sinners. Otherwise the salvation message, the work of Christ, being born again, was for nothing.

So have I joined a Christian web site. I really am shocked how many people openly speak against homosexuality on here. I never realized that there people on here who believe that homosexuality is a sin.
There are also many different religions out there and many people in these religions try to say it is wrong because they are uncomfortable with it. Why?
I believe that the Bible was written so long a go we may never know the true meaning. There are also other things in the Bible that are labled as sins that people do without judgement.
I don't have a Bible but from what I remember in some religions it is a sin to eat a certian type of meat. It is a sin for a man to have long hair.
I remember a friend had a list of "sins" on a phamplet; it was a sin to watch a movie, to listen to rock music and to do most normal things any teenage boy would do. This was all based on a verse that said do not be like the world. How can someone be a part of the world and not be like the world even a little bit.
To me the Bible is history; why put history on some sort of pedestal? Do we give as much reverence to our american history books in school?
True the Bible has laws as well; but it was for those people who lived in that time.
6,000 years from now will people really go by the constitution?

reply to post by dreamseeker

So have I joined a Christian web site. I really am shocked how many people openly speak against homosexuality on here. I never realized that there people on here who believe that homosexuality is a sin.

No this isn't, but ATS is one of the best on the internet for unrestricted free speech of your personal opinion in all area's that's why I love this site the best. They also allow opinions that are not politically correct, which I find to be very brave these days.

And really these types of topics are restricted to 1 in each in both ATS & BTS otherwise you will get tagged with off topic by the MODS.

I wouldn't worry about it, be happy we can express our opinions and share our knowledge here.

But if you really dislike these topics stay away from these threads.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


I find religion interesting. I was just suprised at the replies. I am all for the freedom of speech and ideas. I really wanted to see more replies defending homosexuality. I really thought there would be a lot more people who did not see it as a sin.

reply to post by John Matrix


I don't have a lot of time this morning, but I did want to say that you are somewhat correct. Many of the sins in the Bible are in fact based on Idolatry...

Idolatry of self, is really what sexual sins are about. Putting the pleasures of the flesh (self pleasure) before God. All humans whether Christian or not struggle with this, the difference being that Christians seek repentance, and try not to keep disobeying God. That is what “Fear of God” is in essence, and according to God, “fear of God” is the “Beginning of Wisdom”.

Here is where the problem is...
Lets say that I go out tomorrow night, get blasted and commit adultery with someone. The next day I feel really bad about it, ask for forgiveness, and really try to not let myself slip again. There may be some ramifications from that act which I could have to deal with, but in Gods eyes I am forgiven for it.

Now lets say that I do the same thing, but I know in my heart that I plan to do the same act the following night as well. God is not stupid, and he knows that I am not really repenting my actions, and therefore I would not be forgiven of that sin.

The problem that most Christians have with that lifestyle is that it is a lifestyle. In other words, since it does not fit Gods criteria of what a marriage is, it is continually committing adultery/fornication without repentance. If it happened once, or even a couple times on accident and you were repentant about it, then no problem, its the commitment to continue with something that is against the will of God that makes it problematic to a Christian.

Its an act that has no purpose other then self gratification (as there can be no procreation from it, same as other forms of self gratification), so yes, it is a type of self idolatry. There are many other things just as bad/worse, so I am not trying to pick on anyone here, I am simply explaining this to the best of my ability.

That make sense?

I'll get back to moocow and the rest later tonight.

I have to ask a question of those opposed to gay marrige. Just what is going to happen if a bunch of gay people get married? Are your taxes going to go up? Is crime were you live going to get worse? Are you going to loose your hair? The main reason as I see it is getting married would be for the most part a decision with civil law ramifications. It would allow one's partner to speak for that person if incapacitated (right now other family members have that right. As with straight people, a lawfully married couple would insure the partner would speak for the incapacitated partner unless specified in a living will). It makes inheritance simpler.

I'm not going to try to debate this on religous grounds, I just ask people to look at this from the context of fairness, and treating everyone with same degree of civil and human rights.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

 

I find religion interesting. I was just surprised at the replies. I am all for the freedom of speech and ideas. I really wanted to see more replies defending homosexuality. I really thought there would be a lot more people who did not see it as a sin.

The bible says it is a sin and they will not enter heaven. I can't help that. I'm just stating a fact.

Another fact is it's just a learned behavior....a fetish for same sex sexual gratification. The behavior and practice is a paraphilia.

Another fact is the majority find it disgusting when shoved in our faces.

Another fact is the practice leads to hemorrhoids, other internal damage, and spreads harmful bacteria and disease.

Another fact is the practice mocks humanity's ability to procreate.

Another fact is their fetish does not give them the right to force their fetish down our throats and openly offend us with indecent acts such as those many of us have seen that are done out in the open at their parades, marches, rallies, and celebrations held in public places.

They are not a special sub race of people. They are just people with a same sex fetish.

Those who are offended by those who practice this same sex fetish are usually only offended when they see it being forced on themselves or others, or when our children get molested by one or more of them.


[edit on 23/7/09 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by arbiture
I have to ask a question of those opposed to gay marrige. Just what is going to happen if a bunch of gay people get married? Are your taxes going to go up? Is crime were you live going to get worse? Are you going to loose your hair? The main reason as I see it is getting married would be for the most part a decision with civil law ramifications. It would allow one's partner to speak for that person if incapacitated (right now other family members have that right. As with straight people, a lawfully married couple would insure the partner would speak for the incapacitated partner unless specified in a living will). It makes inheritance simpler.

I'm not going to try to debate this on religous grounds, I just ask people to look at this from the context of fairness, and treating everyone with same degree of civil and human rights.

Gay marriage mocks the hetero sexual institution. It is a hetero sexual institution and the majority rules in a democracy.

Gay marriage today and adoption tomorrow (as a means to recruit converts to the gay fetish)? No thanks!

Gays can't reproduce, so they recruit. That's part of their fetish and their agenda. Often times they recruit by using their status and influence to lure children and young teens into their lifestyle.

No thanks. Leave the marriage and adoption to normal heteros. Those instututions belong to normal, responsible, hetero adults.

Majority rules.

reply to post by OnlyHuman

There are some gay people who flaunt their sexuality, but I think most just want to live their lives, I certainly do. I don't want to be constantly told that I am a sinner, that I am engaging in something that is detestable, an abomination. I've done nothing wrong, I am only acting on natural impulses. If I could choose, then I would choose to be straight... because I just want to feel as 'normal' as everybody else. I don't want to be seen as different, as strange, as odd. But as much as I have tried - through prayer, reading the Bible, meditating - I've always ended up in the same place. I'm not prepared to stand in front of God and tell him that I've tried to live a normal, straight life. I'm afraid that he would be disappointed in me - that I succumbed to the wrong voices and that I was wrong for not listening to the intuition that he provided me.

I think what you need to accept is that ALL OF US, straight or gay are sinners and many of our sins are an abomination and are detestable to God. So you are no different than the rest of us.

According to the Bible, Jesus died so we would all have a path to forgiveness and reconciliation with God.

We all have sins that we stumble on over and over, but the thing to do is to keep asking forgiveness and try not to get hung up on the guilt of it because you are forgiven.

reply to post by arbiture


Marriage is in the realm of religion, some even consider it a sacrament. It is a symbol used throughout the bible to explain the relationship between Christ and his Church. The state has no grounds to decide what a marriage is, as it existed in religion well before they did. Remember that “Separation of Church and State” bit, that works two ways, it means the Church should stay out of the Government and the Government should stay out of the Church including marriage.

Now if the state wants to grant Civil unions to those couples I think you would find a lot of Christians who really would not care as much, BUT the real reason why this is such a debate is because certain members of the homosexual lobby WANT to try and control religion through the government. They HATE religion, and are intentionally trying to cause problems through this and other legal tactics. They want to see religion brought down (mainly Christian), and are fighting very hard to bring that about.

Here is the funny part of the whole thing though.
Right now the Muslim religion is the largest religion on the planet, it just surpassed the Roman Catholic Church in numbers. Muslims will be in control of every major country in the world within the next 50 years, and are already the majority in several European nations. If these folks think that Christianity is not tolerant enough toward them, then they have a rude awakening coming. Look up how that lifestyle is treated in Muslim nations, and they better start paying attention because they are growing in numbers exponentially:

reply to post by arbiture


I have to add, the number of religions perverted for an agenda is not new, in fact most of them, certainly the monotheistic faiths. This does seem to be a problem more with the patriarchael monotheistic faiths of Jews, Christions and Muslims. It might be be because post pagen religions are less dogmatic, or run top down. There is also a connection between the patriarchael (spell?) religions and over all civil (read womens) rights. While many pagan religions focus on being greatfull for natures blessings, while the three monotheistic religions focus more on "don't forget to say your prayers"! Monotheism just seems more fear directed which boils down to "worship me, or else".

This is an example of why I feel the dire need in any country to seperate church and state, and why I'm greatfull the US does. We don't deny the importance of religions that were all the rage when the US was founded. Just look at our building inscriptions and money. Of course we should have freedom of religion but in state matters that also means freedom from religion. It has to stop at the door to city hall. Combine religion and politics and you contaminate both.

reply to post by John Matrix


Hi John/

Actually the Believers are sinners!
That is part of following Christ...admitting that you are a sinner!
Born again means to DIE(baptism)and be born through the teachings of Christ...The Resurrection of Christ is an indication that we shall not die.
Many Christians believe that once you become a Christian, your sins are already forgiven...not in Scripture and this has never been taught in all of Christianity!
If anything, Christians knowing about Judgment day should take more care of themselves in all respects...we all do things we regret, but in Gods mercy we ask for His forgiveness through confession!

ICXC NIKA
helen