The Conspiracy To Twist Bible Verses To Suit Their Antigay Agenda - Romans 1:26-27, page 3
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reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 01:34 AM by passenger
reply to post by KiliRae


Can't argue with the "Red Lobster" Theory. That was a good catch! (pun intended). Does seem to be a lot of conflict there, between the 'Old' and the 'New' doesn't it? But...

" Matthew 15:10-11 "Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What goes into your mouth does not defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, that is what defiles you." NIV

Sort of contradicts the part about "not one iota/stroke/word " doesn't it? Make one wonder about what goes into your @$$ as well...


reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 01:55 AM by passenger
reply to post by KiliRae


Well, different offenses required different punishments. Some mandated the ultimate penalty and others just a symbolic gesture for atonement. Eating shellfish was one of those "don't do it but if you do" kind of punishments. A ritual sacrifice/cleansing was all that was required for such offenses.

Again, just like today: a parking offense just requires you to pay a fine - not receive the death penalty. But certain offenses higher up on the ladder require a more severe punishment. This is one of the distinctions that I think the OP is missing.



reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 03:48 AM by defcon5
Originally posted by Jomina
Ahem... I'll just point out this video for ya, and you can take the "marriage relationship being clearly defined" and laugh your way right on down the road


What a load of slanted garbage in that video…

God punished most of the people she mentions for their behavior. However, it brings up another important point. Religious people are not perfect, not even the patriarchs, but they were forgiven when they messed up and repented of it. God’s punishment on David was so harsh that his entire kingdom suffered for it. It never ends well when you go against the will of God, believe me I have been there myself.

Of the ones I could catch from the video:
Cain -> Punished and cursed by God, was made to wander the wastelands.
Abraham -> Punished by God for lack of belief, Hagar and her son fled. Their descendants became the mortal enemies of the Jewish people to this day.
David -> Punished by God for Adultery.
Lot’s Wife -> Turned to a pillar of slat as a punishment for disobedience.
Things didn’t turn out too well for Sampson either…
And so on…

These were people who went against Gods will, even if only for a short period, and paid dearly for it. Gods plan is that you are to have a marriage that can fruitful and multiply, and that you are to be married to the person you are having that relationship with:
1Co 7:2-5 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.


Its ok though, I know that its much more fun and a lot easier to find youtube videos that poke fun at religious people rather then crack open the book and try and understand it for yourself.


reply to post by helen670

Thanks!
Good to see you on here again, its been awhile… :up


reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 04:09 AM by moocowman
reply to post by Deaf Alien




You got to ask yourself this: why would Christians intentionally misinterpret Paul's words despite many scholars interpreting to the contrary?


Sorry but no !

What any reasonable intelligent person should ask themselves is this :

Why would an omniscient/omnipresent being need an interpreter to begin with ?

If a yawhe god was real to begin with, why on earth would it stick an erogenous zone in a mans' arse. Then tell some illiterate people to pass the message on that if they chose to enjoy what it created. It would tell other people to kill the pillowmuncher or would turn itself into a man called jesus and kill them itself sometime later.

The entire xtian delusional belief system is flawed from the very beginning, the fact that an intercessor is required at every level of their delusion speaks volumes.

Here's the thing, I for one don't hear Jewish people (the owners of the old testament), forever banging on about gay people. Coincidentally, during the Holocaust the nazist exterminated Jews for being jews. They also exterminated gays for being gay, the weird thing is that jewish people also used to exterminate gay people for being gay.

So perhaps jewish people learned a valuable hard lesson, that their supernatural gods were wrong, in that. You don't go round exterminating people for any reason, let alone for being what they are.

Maybe xtians will grow up one day and dump their childish superstitions, we may well all get along then.


reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 04:23 AM by moocowman
reply to post by Jomina


Thanks for posting this video, I'd not seen it before totally hilarious






reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 04:33 AM by helen670
reply to post by Chronogoblin


Hi Chrono/

God has not changed....man on the other hand, has!
God is still the same as He was...HIS Word has not changed....peoples word always changes!
Science keeps changing their THEORIES,trying to KEEP up with the times by modernizing everything to suit their agenda....has this worked?
Big bang(talk about it being, brainwashed into me!) and then lots of other false misguided,deliberate misrepresentation of truth!
Well, to be fair, not all Science is bad,we do have a few that believe in God as the creator!
God on the other hand has lots of Patience...even for the the unbelievers.
Gods Grace is plenty and it will only be by Gods Grace that 'one's eyes shall be opened' to see the truth.
You see, Faith requires a little bit of help from oneself...God alone wont interfere if you dont seek Him.
It's like wanting help of some sort..if you dont let anyone know, then how are they to help you?
The outdated stuff that everyone keeps coming up with is so OUTDATED!
What else is left?
The Bible has been deliberately twisted so that it fits in with mans view, and Not Gods!
I have already mentioned as to why they did this,in another post.
If one is happy to believe the lies, then that is fine...keep believing a lie!
Let's just say that 'There is no God'...has anyone really lost anything?
Besides being taught and been brought up with good morals,to love one another, what else is it that makes this so wrong with what God wants for all of us?

................................................................


Hi Defcon....
Nice to see you.

ICXC NIKA
helen


reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 04:36 AM by defcon5
reply to post by moocowman


Your ignorance of anatomy is apparently only eclipsed by your ignorance of the religion you hate so vehemently. I have never met anyone as filled with anger, and hatred as you are. I don’t know what your deal is, but I pray that you someday get it resolved.

As to mediators, Christ is our Mediator to the father, true enough. However, Christ is an aspect of God himself, his “Word made flesh”, so technically he is not really a mediator. Intercession is only required at “every level” if you fallow Roman Catholicism, many Christians are not Roman Catholic. I think that you biggest problem with your interpretations of Christianity are that A) you equate things that come from Roman Catholicism to Christianity in general, and B) you judge God from a human perspective, which cannot be done.


reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 04:45 AM by moocowman
reply to post by helen670




God has not changed....man on the other hand, has!


Of course god changed,

First god(yahwhe) instructed that men killed the homosexual, then god (yahwhe) became jesus and implied that he would kill the homosexual himself so they no longer had to kill the homosexual on its' behalf.


In relation to man changing , well that can only be because he was designed to change (unless of course he evolved) and as his designer is yahweh jesus the god changed its' mind or created a changeable being.

Regardless of the outcome of the changes in this changeable being, its' designer (being omnipresent) could not be unaware of any changes because from the point of view of the designer there is no change.


reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 05:09 AM by moocowman
reply to post by defcon5




Your ignorance of anatomy is apparently only eclipsed by your ignorance of the religion you hate so vehemently.



Please share with us your evidence of my ignorance of anatomy please.

Like wise please share with us your evidence of my ignorance of the religion I am addressing and who's' version of it I am ignorant of.




I have never met anyone as filled with anger, and hatred as you are. I don’t know what your deal is, but I pray that you someday get it resolved.


No big deal my friend, I'm not angry with you personally and I certainly don't hate anyone.

I do think however, that the sooner xtianity disappears from earth the sooner we may all get along.





As to mediators, Christ is our Mediator to the father, true enough.



So where as Yahweh once walked the earth and spoke with men for century upon century. He then decided to turn himself into jesus so that men should now speak to an invisible jesus who would pass the message on to his alter ego the now invisible yahwhe IE himself.






However, Christ is an aspect of God himself, his “Word made flesh”, so technically he is not really a mediator.




So the words that Yahweh spoke to man from the beginning, Yahwhe changed those words into a human just like himself when he was on earth, words turned into a body but technically not.





Intercession is only required at “every level” if you fallow Roman Catholicism, many Christians are not Roman Catholic
.

Xtians require other people to interpret what they claim a deity has to say to them, be it a pastor a prophet an interpreter or theologian.

If there were no intercession required then (we wish) the bibles in all their forms would be redundant .





I think that you biggest problem with your interpretations of Christianity are that A) you equate things that come from Roman Catholicism to Christianity in general, and B)


So which part of xtianity does not have its' roots in Nicea ?

The secret gospel of Thomas ?

The gospel of Mary Magdeline, her brother Phillip ?







you judge God from a human perspective, which cannot be done.



And on what authority do you make this claim ?

[edit on 23-7-2009 by moocowman]


reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 05:14 AM by moocowman
reply to post by pfawcett1




I look at it like this, if God thought being gay was alright he would have put Adam & Adam on this planet or Eve & Eve but that wasn't the case was i


Well he went one better then that my friend, he made Adam and Eve the only 2 humans on earth.
Then comes along Cain and Abel.

These 4 humans populated the earth, sounds like the earth was one big pay site for a while.




reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 06:30 AM by ignorant_ape
reply to post by grapesofraft


if people a going to quote leviticus - they should read the entire book anf heed ALL of it - not just the cherry picked quotes they like

and same for dueteronomy


reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 07:03 AM by OnlyHuman
Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by Deaf Alien

It clearly states that homesexual sex is a sin. Here are just a few verses from the Bible regarding the subject of homosexuality.

Leviticus 18:22:
22 “Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.



Is it quite clear if you pick the right translation. You picked one of the few that uses the word "homosexuality".

How about this from the King James version:
Leviticus 18:22:
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Instead of this verse applying exclusively to "homosexuals", could we not say that this applies to "heterosexuals" that should not go against 'their' nature?

I'm not convinced that the Bible says anything about homosexuality. I am, however, suspicious that certain translators used language differences to get their agenda or confusion pushed across to the reader. It is my understanding that the most of these verses were originally written in Greek, and I haven't found the Greek word for "homosexuality".

The many arguments against homosexuality don't make much sense to me.
God created Adam and Eve and not Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve, but did he not also build in a defense mechanism if the population on earth started to grow too large? I don't know - are you prepared to stand in front of God and tell him that he did not create such a mechanism?

Marriage may be defined as between one man and one woman, but does that make homosexuals sinners or does it mean that they don't require marriage due to the lack of procreation - no family to care for? I don't see any specific guidelines for this - maybe God built all the knowledge we need directly into our DNA? Should we question that?

There are some gay people who flaunt their sexuality, but I think most just want to live their lives, I certainly do. I don't want to be constantly told that I am a sinner, that I am engaging in something that is detestable, an abomination. I've done nothing wrong, I am only acting on natural impulses. If I could choose, then I would choose to be straight... because I just want to feel as 'normal' as everybody else. I don't want to be seen as different, as strange, as odd. But as much as I have tried - through prayer, reading the Bible, meditating - I've always ended up in the same place. I'm not prepared to stand in front of God and tell him that I've tried to live a normal, straight life. I'm afraid that he would be disappointed in me - that I succumbed to the wrong voices and that I was wrong for not listening to the intuition that he provided me.

My apologies for getting off topic, but yes, you can imagine that I agree with the main point about the verse in Romans. I don't think it has anything to do with homosexuality.


reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 07:46 AM by miriam0566
Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by grapesofraft


Like I said, those verses have pretty much been debunked in other threads. The focus is on Romans 1:26-27. If you want, we can discuss those verses you mentioned.

BTW, the verses in Leviticus is also about pagan worship. Read the whole context.


ive mentioned this before and ill mention this again. the only reason, the ONLY reason people think the laws against homosexuality are only pertaining to idolatry and feel these other scriptures have been debunked is because of the use of the word "tow'ebah",or abomination. that is a thin thread to hang on since "abomination" can also mean something disgusting in a moral sense.

why dont we use your advise and "read the whole context"

is romans 1:26-27 refering to temple prostitution? undoubtedly yes! does this mean that homosexuality is now ok according to the bible? no, why not?

[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

what is fornication?

πορνεια  noun - dative singular feminine
porneia  por-ni'-ah:  harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively, idolatry -- fornication.

fornication - consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other.

even if the bible never even mention anything about homosexual activity in ANY form, from the "context" we can see that something is wrong about it.

does this mean that if homosexual get married then they are off the hook?

well then the question becomes, what forms of marriage are approved by god? literally one form of marriage was blessed by god and that was between a man an a woman. it was from this reasoning that the apostles were able to conclude that having more than one wife was something that god tolerated but didnt approve.

i think that if someone needs to look at the context, it is you. you so busy trying to make homosexuality "ok" that you are leaving out the part of marriage being the only place that god accepts sexual relations


reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 08:05 AM by miriam0566
Originally posted by OnlyHuman
There are some gay people who flaunt their sexuality, but I think most just want to live their lives, I certainly do. I don't want to be constantly told that I am a sinner, that I am engaging in something that is detestable, an abomination. I've done nothing wrong, I am only acting on natural impulses. If I could choose, then I would choose to be straight... because I just want to feel as 'normal' as everybody else. I don't want to be seen as different, as strange, as odd. But as much as I have tried - through prayer, reading the Bible, meditating - I've always ended up in the same place. I'm not prepared to stand in front of God and tell him that I've tried to live a normal, straight life. I'm afraid that he would be disappointed in me - that I succumbed to the wrong voices and that I was wrong for not listening to the intuition that he provided me.


rom 3:[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

rom 5:[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

if all of us have sinned, then its logical to conclude that our inclination is to sin. if our inclination is to sin, then "acting on natural impulses" isnt always a good thing.

priests like to give that speech. the lovey dovey one about "following your heart" and doing what you "gut" tells you to do. yet jeremiah says "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

this doesnt mean that the heart is always bad,

jer 11:[8] Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart: therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do; but they did them not.

inclined
natah  (naw-taw')
to stretch or spread out; by implication, to bend away (including moral deflection); used in a great variety of application (out), stretch (forth, out), take (aside), turn (aside, away), wrest, cause to yield.

sometimes our heart needs discipline. just because its our natural inclination to eat candy and watch tv doesnt mean that a lifestyle of it is going to keep you healthy. the same goes for physical urges.

the bible is clear on fornication (not just homosexuality but all fornication). if one expects to be christian, there is some "inclining" that we need to do and that is not easy.


reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 08:06 AM by Nammu
How's about someone investigates what's really said in these quotes by looking at the original Hebrew version of the bible?

I laugh lots of translations of translations of that book that end up with words like 'homosexuality' in them, when that word never appeared in the original version of the bible.

Everything's lost in translation and fitted to an agenda

All arguments are futile unless you speak to someone that knows ancient hebrew well and can interpret properly. There's so many double meanings in that language and that book.

The translator's task is compounded by the presence of words and phrases whose original meanings have been lost. In these cases, the translator will attempt to interpret the words and phrases as best as possible based on the context of the word and the translator's opinion of what the author was attempting to convey. When the reader of the translation comes across the translator's attempts at translating the difficult text, the reader almost always makes the assumption the translator has accurately translated the text. The following passage will give an example of some of the difficulties the translators face when attempting to convert the Hebrew text into an understandable English rendering.

Make a roof for the ark, and finish it to a cubit above; and set the door of the ark in its side; make it with lower, second, and third decks. (Genesis 6:16 - RSV)

The above translation seems very clear, concise and understandable. The reader would have no problem understanding the meaning of the text and assumes this translation adequately represents the original text. Behind this translation lies the Hebrew, which must be a translator's nightmare. Below is a literal rendering of the same verse according to the Hebrew.

“A light you do to an ark and to a cubit you complete it from to over it and a door of the ark in its side you put unders twenty and thirty you do.”


Emphasis mine.

www.ancient-hebrew.org...
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