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Yep. You keep on proving my point over and over again.
Why do you keep on saying that I am trying to make it okay or more accepted? It is the antigay Christians who make it less accepted or less "OK".
If homosexuality is as bad as modern Christians make it out to be, you'd think that Jesus would at least mention it.
Only because you are not only a deaf alien but a blind one as well. Your eyes only let you see what you want to.
A person would either have to be delusional, stupid, blind, or unable to accept the truth to believe the Bible doesnt clearly say it is a sin.
Jesus didnt mention you shoudnt have sex with an animal (which was next in the laundry list of sins and I am in no way saying gay people have sex with animals any more than straight people do), but I doubt that didnt mean he didnt think it wasnt a sin.
You don't hear them shouting from their pulpits that sex with animals was wrong or an abomination. And yet they make homosexuality one of their top, if not the top, sins.
It's like they have beef with homosexuality. Why?
The reason being is exactly what Grapes said; Leviticus is "a laundry list of sins." It seems to me, Deaf Alien, that you are making a logical error in assuming that every injunction must, somehow, be tied to the previous admonition(s).
The chapters before and after chapter 18 deal extensively with idolatry. We can therefore expect that much of chapter 18 will deal with the same topic.
Not to mention all this crap from the Old Testament NO LONGER APPLIES
Here's a few scholars:
Aristides, AD 124-126
Justin Martyr, AD 100-165
John Chrysostom, AD 347-407
Matthew Henry, AD 1662-171
Dr. Merrill F. Unger, 1909-1980
[W]e have been taught that to expose newly-born children is the part of wicked men; and this we have been taught lest we should do anyone harm and lest we should sin against God, first, because we see that almost all so exposed (not only the girls, but also the males) are brought up to prostitution. And for this pollution a multitude of females and hermaphrodites, and those who commit unmentionable iniquities, are found in every nation. And you receive the hire of these, and duty and taxes from them, whom you ought to exterminate from your realm. And any one who uses such persons, besides the godless and infamous and impure intercourse, may possibly be having intercourse with his own child, or relative, or brother. And there are some who prostitute even their own children and wives, and some are openly mutilated for the purpose of sodomy; and they refer these mysteries to the mother of the gods." Justin Martyr, First Apology 27 (A.D. 151).
Saint John Chrysostom denounces homosexual acts as being contrary to nature. Commenting on the Epistle to the Romans (1: 26-27), he says that the pleasures of sodomy are an unpardonable offense to nature and are doubly destructive, since they threaten the species by deviating the sexual organs away from their primary procreative end and they sow disharmony between men and women, who no longer are inclined by physical desire to live together in peace.
The brilliant Patriarch of Constantinople employs most severe words for the vice we are analyzing. Saint John Chrysostom makes this strong argument: “All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men…. The sins against nature are more difficult and less rewarding, since true pleasure is only the one according to nature. But when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions [of the homosexuals] satanic, but their lives are diabolic….. So I say to you that these are even worse than murderers, and that it would be better to die than to live in such dishonor. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body….. There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.” (St. John Chrysostom, In Epistulam ad Romanos IV, in J. McNeill, op. cit., pp. 89-90)
Matthew Henry tells us "It was the most unnatural and abominable wickedness that they now set upon, a sin that still bears their name, and is called SodomyIt was a punishment that answered to their sin. Burning lusts against nature were justly punished with this preternatural (beyond what is natural) burning. Those that went after strange flesh were destroyed by strange fire."
Originally posted by KiliRae
Not to mention all this crap from the Old Testament NO LONGER APPLIES
Does this include the 10 Commandments?
I agree that some churches do this, but most do not. Regardless it is wrong to just harp on this one sin and over inflate it. Even though I do believe the Bible clearly states that it is a sin, it also states lots of other things are sins and in the end we are all guilty of something. If we werent we wouldnt need to repent and seek forgiveness through Jesus.
I think there are 2 main reasons why a church would continually harp on homosexuality. 1. The pastor is a closet homosexual or one of the main people in the church. For instance, Ted Haggard and several Catholic Priests.
2. It is in retaliation and/or fear of the "gay agenda", for lack of a better way to describe it. I think most people are growing in tolerence but I also think many people feel like they are being forced to accept it, which creates a backlash and fear of change.
Well good luck with everything. I guess we can agree to disagree on this. I just wanted you to show my side of the argument.
I do believe we need to be careful to try not to rewrite the Bible to make our sins acceptable.
I am just really confused by all this, it just seems to be picking and choosing what you want to hear/read/see/believe.
Right. One of my points of this thread and my other posts too is to break down their theology that homosexuality is a sin. Why? To weaken their influence in politics. If they had their way, we'd see a different way of life. I can give you a few examples of prominent antigay Christians trying to get laws against homosexuals.
Scholars from gaychristians101 (or whatever) certainly aren't likely to have a skewed agenda are they? And as far as the whole issue of 'scholars' is concerned: I'm not a 'scholar' but I also don't have to be a farmer to know when I am stepping in horse $#!^.
Originally posted by defcon5
You are actually over thinking this, its really very simple in the bible. The bible defines what a marriage relationship is supposed to be, and the Ten Commandments state that any sexual activity outside the marriage relationship is sinful (whether it be adultery or fornication). That even includes heterosexual relationships out of wedlock. The marriage relationship is very clearly defined as it is used frequently as an allusion to Christ (husband) and his Church (Bride).