OMG, why? all I can see is these idiots stirring up a hornets nest or do they really want a return to the cold war?

The US is stretched enough in anti terror conflicts that's costing the tax payer a fortune, if it did kick off with Russia could the US afford a major conflict, don't forget it's probably not just Russia, Russia and China are fairly tight these days and that is a power house no one could fight against.

I m from East and I know its very easy here, till now to play the card of the fear/hatred of Russia.
Of course for the politicians on the both sides , even if they talk a lot about "freedom and human rights& democracy" or "peace&international frienship" its only game about petrol, resources, and more slaves to rule...

And besides Saakashvili seem to be just a puppet with some criminal friends.
If America is able to make friends with Saudites and the likes whose countries are in many respects totall contradition of "american way of life", it will be easier and wiser, considering war in Afganistan to make friends with Russia, which even if far from perfection is much closer to western ways of life.
two or three cents...

peace

[edit on 22-7-2009 by ZenOnKwalsky]

Ok we get it - the US wants Ukraine and Georgia to be free, democratic, happy, and prosperous. Terrific. Ukraine and Georgia have been free and independent since 1991 however - which had nothing to do with the US. And they had been "democratic" (as far as US is concerned) since their respective color revolutions that brough US puppets to power.

However somehow they are still missing the "happy and prosperous" part, which is making people question whether these US puppets are actually doing anything good. But there is an easy solution - BLAME RUSSIA. Ukraine is deep in debt, suffering rapidly declining economy, and faces internal political bickering - but no it's not Yuschenko's fault - it has to be Russia's fault. Georgia is run by tie-eating psychopath warmonger who has hallucinations of Russian bombers after him, not to mention that he forcefully silences all opposition. But not to fear - play the Russian card and blame the evil Ruskies for Georgia's troubles.


US is pledging support for idiots who run these countries, but Yuschenko and Saakashvili aren't fit to run anything. They refuse to accept any responsibility for their countries' problems, and instead blame everything on Russia. That will not solve anything, and will only get them in deeper sh*t.

US must face reality - which is that they are vesting their interest behind wholly incapable political puppets who are on their way out, instead of trying to improve relations with Russia - which lets face it is much more important on the world stage. Yuschenko now has support rating of 5%, and there are massive opposition protests to remove Saakashvilli in Georgia since January. Both of these jokers will not last long unless they resort to creating a dictatorship. So much for promoting democracy then.


So what the hell is the US trying to achieve? It is time to cut your losses (as far as funding these puppets goes), face reality, make peace with Russia, and stop stepping on Russia's toes and encircling it with NATO. US has a problem with prioties, and it tries to take on as much as possible when in reality it can't get one thing done.

Yeah, you're right. The Ukraine was much better off under its hundreds of years of Russian oppression and genocide.

Originally posted by Johnmike
Yeah, you're right. The Ukraine was much better off under its hundreds of years of Russian oppression and genocide.

Which years are you referring to? Can you give a range? Also genocide is quite a big word to be throwing around recklessly, especially given no common agreement among historians.

Prior to 1990 Ukraine was never a single organized state with defined boundaries and sovereignty. It was part of various empires and kingdoms and its geographical borders and ethnical content constantly shifted and varied. Much of what makes up Ukraine today was in fact originally conquered by the Russian empire from the Ottomans and Poles, and was never part of ethnical Ukraine. And guess what allowed Ukraine to become independent in 1990 - the disolution of the USSR brought about by a Russian (Gorbachev). As for the USSR era - Ukraine was as much a part of the Soviet Union as Russia was. Khruschev in fact was Ukrainian. So oppression is a figurative term. Throughout Russian and Ukrainian history in fact, Ukraine and Russia have never been enemies.


And why even bring the Soviet Union and Russian Empire into the discussion? We are talking about how Ukraine changed between 1990's and early 2000's and when Yuschenko came into power.