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Jack The Ripper: The Case Reviewed

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posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by TheMythLives
reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


True, I have never really looked into BTK, but I was surprised he turned himself in though. The Ripper could have been anyone and his motives could have been anything.


The trick is to forget who you are and slip on their shoes for a while. BTK got away with it, and the longer that he got away with it, the greater was his need for recognition for his 'art'. Look at the letters he wrote, remember that he gave himself that name 'Bind, torture, kill'. In most serial cases ego is a major factor, they are usually 'missing' something fundamental in their personality and consider their killing careers their greatest accomplishment...getting away with it, while ego boosting, denies them recognition and they need that to balance their feelings of inadequacy. Remember that only those who feel a lack of power feel the need to make those weaker than themselves suffer.

BTK didn't hand himself in, he allowed them to find him because he couldn't help gloating (though on a subconscious level this is self-destructive, he may not have been consciously aware of that), he wanted recognition for crimes that hadn't yet been ascribed to the BTK series. This allowed law enforcement to track him down, as I recall he used his Church's computer. His self-esteem was obviously waning and he needed to feel powerful, he was nolonger physically up to murder, and those murders that he had committed had lost their fantasy value, so he had to get what he needed via police and media attention. It undid him. BUT, now in prison, he will be within a heirarchal system and will be able to talk freely with others about those crimes. I remember reading about Randy Kraft years ago and how he and the I-5 killer (amongst others) were always hanging out, comparing stories. This is what these guys live for, for others to appreciate their 'art'. They are all, almost without exception, highly inadequate individuals with feelings of powerlessness which they compensate for by inflicting pain on others. Their crimes are all they have to feel pride in and for the most part, they have to keep that to themselves, only when they are found out and captured do they get the recognition that they feel they deserve.




posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by mike dangerously
 


I had considered this from the first time I began reading on Jack the Ripper.

It does give him another avenue of travel, and the cleanliness of the people back in his era definately would not have made him stand out.

People did not bathe regularly, it was seen as something rich people did as a luxury.

It was also thought to be something that could kill you, bathing that is, and it is a good idea.

I just do not remember at the moment if sewer systems were in place by this time, in England.

Indoor plumbing is not something all of Europe is known for still to this day.

Please, do some digging of the sewer inception in Europe, I'm limited to the time I post.

Some places in Europe, and I'm not saying which, still have bad health issues due to their sewage issues.

This would be a rather rank and foul way of traveling from one killing to another, but at the same time it would be the perfect cover and getaway.



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


FFS!!! I can assure you that in Victorian London there was an extensive sewage network and that although very few houses had indoor plumbing that the bath-houses, as well as the good old steel bath in front of the fire provided for general cleanliness. Have you read any of Herbert Asbury's books, Gangs of New York...New Orleans...San Francisco etc? You will find that at that time, most countries, including the states had little in the way of indoor plumbing. As to the rest of Europe, you will find the odd crouch over a hole in France and Greece still in public buildings, but most have a fairly conventional system that you would recognise.

As far as the London sewers are concerned, there is an amazing documentary film made in 1967 and hosted/narrated by James Mason (swoon!) called the London that Nobody Knows (if you search google on that I think you may find one or two clips) where he actually goes into the sewers, in some areas it is high enough and wide enough to get a pony and trap through there. However, I am not sure how extensive those areas are. Most European systems are similar (think The Third Man with Orson Welles being chased through the Vienna sewers by Joseph Cotton), and that they are still in use over a century later is testament to the quality of civil engineering at that time. I do though think that in Whitechapel it was easier to get lost in the Labryinth of streets and court yards, he would have been more conspicious if he had tried to come and go via the sewers, and there were not the manhole covers that you find today on every thoroughfare, so he would have had to go some distance to find access, not the most reliable escape unless he planned his crimes well in advance which I don't think he did, his victims were clearly chosen at random.

Edit to add: I found this tiny clip from the documentary...it shows the location that one of the murders was committed and helps demonstrate how cramped conditions were at that time. The buildings featured had not as yet been cleared although I believe that they have been now, though some of the Georgian townhouses as featured in the clip still stand as they have listed (protected) status.

londonist.com...





[edit on 25-7-2009 by KilgoreTrout]



posted on Jul, 25 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by mike dangerously
 


This got me thinking, according to official articles, the following says:


Of all the great engineering feats of the Victorian age, the construction of the London sewers, and those in the other overcrowded cities of the industrial boom, must rank as one of the most important.


The Sewers of Victorian London

According to this sewer systems were in use at this time, but apparently the rich had the best access to them. I am not sure if this is what we were looking for..lol.. but its the only thing with Sewer I could find.

[edit on Jul 25th 2009 by TheMythLives]



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 01:23 AM
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Myth,Leo I read that article from the JTR casebook and it does seem that the sewer system as it existed at the time would not have been useful to him or them.I need to find a map of the nearest Metro stations near WhiteChapel at the time if he simply blended in then all he needed was a coach and he was gone I'am leaning towards he/them perhaps using the Underground station at WhiteChapel market the Underground did go into the neighborhood at the time he/they just slipped in and out of there using either the train or coach.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 01:24 AM
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Not like it needs it but BUMP.


What a detailed research thread on this CLASSIC case.


I can not remember the name of the movie I saw on this case on TNT when I was on my summer break of my 8th grade year,lol. Anyways that got me interested in this case. Again GREAT thread TML.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by mike dangerously
Myth,Leo I read that article from the JTR casebook and it does seem that the sewer system as it existed at the time would not have been useful to him or them.I need to find a map of the nearest Metro stations near WhiteChapel at the time if he simply blended in then all he needed was a coach and he was gone I'am leaning towards he/them perhaps using the Underground station at WhiteChapel market the Underground did go into the neighborhood at the time he/they just slipped in and out of there using either the train or coach.


That is actually a very good point, I like it...Hammersmith line goes to Whitechapel.


The Metropolitan Railway opened on 10 January 1863.[6] Within a few months of opening it was carrying over 26,000 passengers a day.[10] The Hammersmith and City Railway was opened on 13 June 1864 between Hammersmith and Paddington. Services were initially operated by GWR between Hammersmith and Farringdon Street. By April 1865 the Metropolitan had taken over the service. On 23 December 1865 the Metropolitan's eastern extension to Moorgate Street opened. Later in the decade other branches were opened to Swiss Cottage, South Kensington and Addison Road, Kensington (now known as Kensington Olympia). The railway had initially been dual gauge, allowing for the use of GWR's signature broad gauge rolling stock and the more widely used standard gauge stock. Disagreements with GWR had forced the Metropolitan to switch to standard gauge in 1863 after GWR withdrew all its stock from the railway. These differences were later patched up, however broad gauge was totally withdrawn from the railway in March 1869.


en.wikipedia.org...

I don't think he could have got a horse and carriage down there, but I'm thinking of all the maintenance tunnels and entrances along the lines it would be a good way to move around, though some of the murders were committed quite a distance from a Tube station. What about someone who worked on the construction or on maintenance of the line, they would have easy access in and out of the area, know where the access tunnels were located. Also a lot of the labour came from Irish immigrants who may have had to live in the Whitechapel area during construction, which could explain why Jack seemingly didn't live in the area but knew it so well and was so comfortable there. He may have improved his lot, moved out, and possibly eventually emigrated to the US. At that time, most Irish immigrants passed through on their way to the states, working as navvies along the way.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 05:50 PM
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I've read 2 books, Steven Knight's Final Solution and Patricia Cornwell's. Both are excellent and highly recommended. Gull and Sickert are the 2 best suspects. I would like to know if anyone knows for certain if the Grape stems were were fact or fiction. Steven Knight said they were fact and so did the movie "From Hell". If they were fact that would point to Gull since he was wealthy. Gull didn't have a heart attack like some one mentioned, it was a stroke or seizure. Does anyone know if the carriages of Gull or any suspects still exist? If so they could be tested with Luminol. If the floor of a carriage was covered with blood, that would be very incriminating. If the clothing or shoes of any suspect still exists, they could be tested as well. Does anyone know if Sickerts parents or siblings were cremated? If not their remains could be tested for DNA.



[edit on 27-7-2009 by Sargoth]



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by Sargoth
 


I think the grapes were fiction. If I remember correctly.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


Yet more impressive digging! Wow, that was awesome
Very good find.



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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Another great case review Myth! I have always wondered about this ever since I saw the movie "From Hell" which was about Jack the Ripper. Its amazing that over 100 years later they still have no real idea who did it or why. I have never really read too much about it because like you said there really isnt all that much information on it. I would have to agree with you on who you think was the killer after reading your review here. It seems like he would be the most logical candidate.

I will be looking forward to your next review


S&F!



posted on Jul, 26 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 


Was it "From Hell" with Johnny Depp? That was in 2001. I know there is another one I can see the actors face but I am not too sure what it was called. I know that the Johnny Depp one has been shown many times on tv and I know it has been on TNT as well.



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 
A good point Kilgore! those maintenance tunnels and the Tube system itself fit perfectly as entrances and exits.What we need to find out now is which of the murders took place nearest the Whitechapel market station. He or they used a coach for the other murders or he simply walked right out with no one noticing.



[edit on 023131p://1326 by mike dangerously]



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 12:23 AM
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I've been enjoying your case reviewed files when I log onto ATS. I'm still not sure about Jack the Ripper, I'll need more evidence, but we don't agree on the OJ case at all.



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


Im truly looking forward to more of your case reviews, would enjoy
hearing your conclusions on J.B.R. case, very tragic story indeed!!
This story was always bothersome to me because she was a child!!
Keep up the great work MYTH



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


I have read extensively on the Victorian era of Europe, it was just as filthy as other parts of the world, at that time.

I know that disease was rampant at the time, people were still throwing slop out of windows onto passersby that happened to be stupid enough to walk under a window.

As for Herbert Asbury's books, no, I have no time to read much of that type.

The Victorian era was where science first began taking hold, and forming into what it is today.

Superstition still held quite firmly upon the people though, which is what I was referring to about the bathing and cleanliness issue.


A great engineering feat in the Victorian Era was the sewage system in London. It was designed by Joseph Bazalgette in 1858. He proposed to build 82 mi (132 km) of sewer system linked with over 1,000 mi (1,600 km) of street sewers.

Many problems were encountered but the sewers were completed. After this, Bazalgette designed the Thames Embankment which housed sewers, water pipes and the London Underground.

During the same period London's water supply network was expanded and improved, and a gas network for lighting and heating was introduced in the 1880s.


reply to post by mblahnikluver
 


Yes, "From Hell" was the Johnny Depp movie, based upon a graphic novel.

This is my favorite version of the story, as it involves Government, Law Enforcement, and Masonic corruption.

To me, the corruption of those three areas, is what lead to the Whitechapel murders.

reply to post by TheMythLives
 


The grapes may or may not have been fiction, but the poverty level was not.

Prostitution was a very large part of society at the time, especially in the Whitechapel district.

Just because it was the Victorian era, does not mean that society was totally civilized, and it does not surprise me in the least that someone like Jack the Ripper could get away with his crimes so easily.

What surprises me more so, is that his list of victims was not into the triple digits, because if the man was motivated to kill prostitutes, just for the sake of getting them off the street as some type of revenge motivation, the number of women he mercilessly slaughtered would have been a lot higher.

To me, this is suggestive that a few things were the cause of such low numbers of vicitims.

1) He had a set of women targeted before hand. Most likely a clique of prostitutes, which suggests he knew these women, possibly from being a former client.

2) It was totally premeditated. Based upon the way they were killed, he knew when and where to do it.

3) He knew the area very well, and or knew the patrol route of Law Enforcement.

4) He was most likely caught for some other petty crime, which lead to the crimes ceasing.

TML, check out the Whitechapel Murders on Wikipedia for some fascinating details.


[edit on 27-7-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by mblahnikluver
 


Much thanks as always
I do what I can to make these case reviews enjoyable and I am glad you like them.


reply to post by mike dangerously
 


Good point Mike, very good point. I wonder if their was a system near the market or near a central point in town, or near a few blocks away from each killing


reply to post by itsmuch2late
 


Thanks for the kind words



reply to post by truth/seeker
 


Yes I will be doing J.B.R apparently people would like to know more about that very confusing case.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


As always thanks for the updates and the link
Also the crimes stopping could mean he got locked away in an assylum (Like Aaron Kominski). So who do you think was killer? Any thoughts?



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


Hi! I have been off ATS for awhile (and don't come on as often) and missed this thread. Well done!

I always liked the idea of a royal family member did it. He/she could have used disguises and could pull off portraying anyone.

I had never heard the Jill factor, quite interesting!

Author Anne Perry who in my opinion is a very good mystery writer wrote the book; "The Whitechapel Conspiracy." She outlines the idea of a secret society that covers up crimes in order to protect its members. It is a fictional book based on many facts.

I will be interested in Jon Bonet!

Again, good job!!



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


Thank you for the kind words. I will be sure to add that book to the growing list. Sounds interesting.



posted on Jul, 27 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


No problem about adding to the thread.

Do I know who commited these heinous crimes?

Do I have a suspect?

Do I really strike you as someone who would tell anyone something that significant?



If I tell you, I would have to tell all of ATS, and that's not happening.


I solved the J.F.K. assassination, the sinking of the Titannic as a case of fraud since the iceberg was just an elusive part of the cover-up plot for insurance purposes, and as well I have solved many other such conspiracies.

You, my fine friend, will have to wait for the book, just like everyone else.


~mischievious laughter~



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