Shock: Inside the Obama Healthcare Bill

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

There is so much crap getting in the way of an honest deal for the Americans...and God only knows, y'all deserve it...

And what pray tell have Americans done to you that our good hospitals deserve to be gutted and our doctors deserve to have their hands tied? The rest of the world comes to America for medical treatment ,so this plan will hurt many other people not just despised Americans, retarded people, and the elderly.

This is not Obama's brainchild. The dude behind all this is white ,rich ,and has ties to eugencists. Read up on who was bossing Ms. Clinton around when she tried to push healthcare reform.



[edit on 22-7-2009 by eradown]

reply to post by dannyfal



I pay taxes for the roads I USE. I pay taxes for the police, fire, bridges I USE!!!
I pay taxes for the library I USE!!!

I DON'T WANT TO PAY TAXES SO SOME LAZY SOB CAN GET FREE HEALTHCARE.

Not only would it degrade the quality of care I get now, it would mandate where I got it, who gave it to me, and it would determine whether or not I needed it in the first place.

Why why why do people need free healthcare? 300 million people in this country have some sort of plan. 40 million do not.
So we are going to punish 300 million so the 40 million can get what they want?

If you get sick now, you can walk your ass into ANY hospital and get treated. It's the law. Everyone has healthcare now! Why ruin what we have? Granted it is not perfect, but to destroy what the majority has for the benefit of a few is just another way the government wants to gain control over 1/6th of the economy.

If this plan is so stinking great then post something that would convince me. Sell me on it. Extoll the virtues of socialized medicine. I am from England so, been there done that. I've seen socialized medicine first hand, have you?

Originally posted by Question

Originally posted by dannyfal

i work for a living. i'm not a retard i have a pretty high IQ. i work but don't get healthcare.

AAAAWWWWWW! POOR YOU! Would you like a cookie to make you feel better?

Get over yourself! Here's an idea, how about you use that "High IQ" brain of yours and shop for insurance? Who ever said your employer HAD to provide you with free health care? I love how you mentioned your having a "High IQ" as if somehow that makes you better, or if it's some kind of honor badge. Having a high IQ Is WORTHLESS, if you don't know how to use it, and as it seems in your case, you're failing to use it.

no... i don't need a cookie. i need someone to examine my back problems. i am denied insurance because i was hospitalized. you cannot get insurance for up to a year if you are hospitalized. i don't see what that has to do with my intelligence. i was referring to my high IQ because you claimed that everyone who wanted healthcare was retards. it was a rebuttle. just because you don't remember what you said doesn't mean you have to make yourself look dumb. how do you know i don't know how to use my IQ? what have i done or said to indicate that?

if your employer all of a sudden stopped paying for your healthcare, you'd most likely tuck your ego between your legs and keep your mouth shut.

If my employer did not provide for my insurance I would either a) shop for insurance or b) make sure I stay in healthy shape (which I do anyway) and make sure I don't go to the hospital unless I'm going to die. "Tuck my ego between my legs"? Apparently you mistaken me for someone who doesn't have a spine. Like yourself.

no, you can't shop for insurance, the insurance companies are nazis. I CANT GET INSURANCE UNTIL NEXT YEAR. are you not understanding that you know absolutely nothing about what you are arguing about? and how am i spineless? if i am in favor of helping others?

if you don't know what your talking about, you shouldn't say anything. its as simple as that.

The same can be said to you free loading, lazy, pot smoking hipies who want everything GIVEN to you, because you don't want to WORK for it.

i already told you i work... your not making any sense. and what does being lazy have to do with being a pot smoker or a hippie? you get plenty of things given to you, what are you talking about dude

sometimes i think some of these people don't even deserve to be members of ATS. all they do is spread hate and ignorance. they might as well join the government.

Ahh yes, and here the liberal agenda rears its ugly head "Only say what we WANT you to say, and if you disagree with us, then keep your mouth shut" The first amendment of the constitution must be a REAL B*TCH for you people. Too bad for you the 1st amendment was written in order to protect that which you DON'T want to hear, and not the other way around.

i didn't make any liberal comments, i simply called you out on not knowing what your talking about. i don't disagree with what right wing people have to say... i disagree with what people who are ignorant have to say. there is a difference.

"You want something? You have to WORK HARD for it! Don't wait for someone else to give it to you"

so what if you work hard and still dont get [snip]?

there would always be people like YOU, FREELOADERS who will do everything in their power to take it away.

i think your misunderstanding what i am saying. could you please explain how i am a freeloader?

you really dont realize how rediculous you sound do you?



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[edit on 22-7-2009 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

How come Canada has the wherewithal to do it, and the States can't? This apparently retarded unemployed pot-smoking hippie twit seems to think you American are better than all that. If only you could convince yourselves.

Please your system is garbage and the vast majority of Americans don't want it. I hear daily on local radio shows(being in detroit, we get lots of international debate) canadians calling in and complaining about these issues first hand. Just recently, one of my wifes delivery nurses was a Canadian who commutes back and forth from Windsor to Detroit. Even said that the US system is much, much better. She was telling us a story that her daughter just had a child and that the newborn had to have something semi-important done medically. She said that the wait was 3 months for the baby to get in. NO THANKS

... And this is from a Canadian lady in the medical field.

Here's a thought. Maybe the US and Canada can get some type of back door dealing going where we can send you all of our poor and infortunate tax eaters. I'm sure you guys as humanitarians wouldn't have a problem with this. We'll even send you all of those hard working illegals.

Keep your long waits and government approvals, it's not wanted here.

Originally posted by dannyfal

Originally posted by Question

Originally posted by dannyfal
reply to post by Question

 

Oh, and if you think the government hasn't handed YOU anything.... your completely delusional. where do you think the schools, roads, post office, etc. come from?

there are better ways to express your opinion other than making yourself look like a fool

WE pay for those with our state and federal income taxes you t*it! Funny that you mention that though, because it doesn't seem like the govt. is doing a good job even at that in the first place!

we (would) pay for the HC with taxes too... your statement makes no sense

you pay taxes and get things handed to you
i pay taxes and dont get anything handed to me

Except that if this bill passes, it will completely destroy the benefits I have now, it will tax me more each year than the govt. even deserves in the first place. This bill will destroy me and my family economically by having the govt. ask 50% MORE of MY money so they can use it on this piece of s*it bill! Why in the world would I want to pay 50% more of MY money on an incompetent govt. health care, when I can use the one I currently have and pay A LOT LESS? You're the one that's not making any sense.

If you remember my quote, while yes, we are paying for all those things, I ALSO mentioned that the govt. isn't doing even THAT right! If you don't believe me, just look at the education system in this country. (BTW, I DO plan on looking at private schools when I have children as I can't trust the govt. to teach my children the truth.)

Originally posted by mikerussellus

I DON'T WANT TO PAY TAXES SO SOME LAZY SOB CAN GET FREE HEALTHCARE.

im tired of defending this argument... why do you think only lazy sobs dont have healthcare? many hardworking people don't get healthcare and CANT get healthcare. do you not understand this? if not, then go do more research then come back and talk.

If you get sick now, you can walk your ass into ANY hospital and get treated. It's the law. Everyone has healthcare now!

everyone has healthcare? do you know what you are even talking about? do you know how much a hospital bill is?

oh and if your from England then you have no idea what the circumstances are here regarding the healthcare system

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


You know what, Johnny - this isn't your country. You don't live here and you don't pay taxes here. We just found out that the banker bailout stimulus package will cost $23 Trillion. We still don't know about the auto stimulus package and we have no idea what the cost of this God-forsaken health care bill is going to be, but we do know it's going to be well past what the banker bailout cost. Let's get real - they cannot possibly raise the money to pay for all of the medical overhaul with appropriations or refunds or whatever they "think" might do the trick. The only thing that's going to pay for this thing is either

1) an across the board tax hike for ALL classes, including the poor, not just the "rich"
2) a dramatic increase in middle/upper class income that will force corporations to relocate their headquarters in other countries and offshore MORE jobs to make up the loss

This isn't about Obama, because he admitted that he doesn't know what's in the bill. The fact that he's pushing for it so hard when he admits ignorance shows what a shill for his party he is.

You on the other hand have no excuse trying to defend the man or his party. This is our country, not yours. Americans don't want a flawed health care system like Canada has and we certainly don't need advice from someone who doesn't live here.

let me clarify that the very poor that do not work will not be included in this bill, this bill is to target first the working poor and what ever middle class we still have, only people with employment and businesses.

The government until this day has no devised a plan on how to cover 400 million poor none working people in the nation.

Because the program needs taxable income first to work and only the working force is to be targeted first.

Like any other plans our private owner government does is to gouge people that still works and pay taxes.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
Has it ever occurred to anyone that this has been a LONG TIME in the making. I mean just think about how long and how many people and how much time it takes to come up with such a HUGE and MASSIVE document. This is the exact thing with the economic bailouts. They don't come up with this overnight. This is all planned years ago. And this is why they are so hell bent on ramming this legislation through Congress.

Yea it is most likely Hillary care.

[edit on 103131p://bWednesday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by djusdjus
There are some 45 million americans, who are working, that have no healthcare coverage.

That is wrong on so many levels it is amazing.

Do you honestly think it's lazy hippies that are the problem here?

Right now your insurance agent stands between you and your treatment.
And that's different from having a civil servant do it how?

the right wingers are losing it on this one. They are even using a cyst removal patient from canada as propaganda because she went to sinai to have her cyst removed and they are even lying saying she had a tumor which wasn't the case.

So, when all they got is 1 canadian, who is telling less than the truth about the Canadian health care system, which the american system is NOT being modeled off of by the way because it is clear there is a 3 tier system in america (self payers/ state paid/ illegals), then the argument is just gnashing teeth angrily because they don't like the idea of having a stable government that handles health care.

what's wrong with the right wing of america anyway? NOt that the left is great, but what's up with all the lies and foolish resistance to helping other americans? THat's just nuts.

That total number is loaded and is overused and underexplained. Within that total you have those who are laid off and opt out of COBRA, those in between jobs, Illegal Immigrants, part time workers, and above all those who simply OPT OUT of their employers insurance plan. I have worked with many naive people over the years who often thought that they don't need the coverage or will get it if they become ill. Try picking up coverage while you're being worked on in the E.R.

I worked with a guy who didn't even spring the couple of bucks to pick up short term disability. He got hit by a car while riding his motorcycle. Broke his hip and slipped several disks in his back. He was out of work for 8 weeks and we ended up passing the hat to give him some cash. He made a decent wage but was too cheap and dumb to opt for any coverage whatsoever.

reply to post by orderedchaos


You asked for lube?




There's much to be concerned about in this healthcare bill starting with the size of it. It occurred to me to take the bill to Office Depot to have printed (didn't want to use all my paper/ink) but at >1000 pages, it would cost a small fortune. Congresscritters don't read 100 page bills and they certainly won't read this one. And, while I'm generally an equal opportunity hater of both sides of the aisle, I hope the Rs will be partisan enough to vote no on the bill while garnering a little bit of help from some of the least pocket lining Ds.

reply to post by dannyfal


Actually many for none profit hospitals like the main hospital in my city takes the uninsured and don't deny treatment to anybody that can not afford it.

They have programs that all you have to do is fill their paper work within certain amount of time to receive free health care or just have the bill work with the hospital for reduces fees and payment.

So it depends the state you live in, is help for anybody but many doesn't even know.

Originally posted by Question

Originally posted by dannyfal

Originally posted by Question

Originally posted by dannyfal
reply to post by Question

 

Oh, and if you think the government hasn't handed YOU anything.... your completely delusional. where do you think the schools, roads, post office, etc. come from?

there are better ways to express your opinion other than making yourself look like a fool

WE pay for those with our state and federal income taxes you t*it! Funny that you mention that though, because it doesn't seem like the govt. is doing a good job even at that in the first place!

we (would) pay for the HC with taxes too... your statement makes no sense

you pay taxes and get things handed to you
i pay taxes and dont get anything handed to me

Except that if this bill passes, it will completely destroy the benefits I have now, it will tax me more each year than the govt. even deserves in the first place. This bill will destroy me and my family economically by having the govt. ask 50% MORE of MY money so they can use it on this piece of s*it bill! Why in the world would I want to pay 50% more of MY money on an incompetent govt. health care, when I can use the one I currently have and pay A LOT LESS? You're the one that's not making any sense.

If you remember my quote, while yes, we are paying for all those things, I ALSO mentioned that the govt. isn't doing even THAT right! If you don't believe me, just look at the education system in this country. (BTW, I DO plan on looking at private schools when I have children as I can't trust the govt. to teach my children the truth.)

There is estimates of 59% floating around out there. My question is, does this even include state taxes and all of the stealth taxes that are out there and that are coming? Or is 50%-59% just federal taxes?

I was just talking to some of my Albanian friends yesterday. They made some comments on the effect that what's going on now in this country is why they left their country. The unfortunate thing is that I told them before hand that this is what they were electing but they were under that smooth talking trance to believe otherwise .


Sigh, for some reason I'm really beginning to lose all incentive to even be bothered to go to work and continue with my own business(yes, 2 jobs basically). What's the point, I get punished while the lazy get rewarded.

[edit on 22-7-2009 by Tyr Sog]

[edit on 22-7-2009 by Tyr Sog]

Originally posted by ZindoDoone That's along the Canadian border and the reason for that is all the Canadian customers they get because of the rationing that is happening in Canada. Waiting 60 days for and 'Emergency MRI' doesn't sound like the type of health care model I want for my country!

Sorry, I'd have to call that a lie. Nobody waits 60 days for an emergency MRI. If it's that critical, and no facilities are available, it's the government that takes you to a US clinic. This system isn't perfect, but don't try to build a case against an American plan by constructing straw men up here.

I got cured of cancer for $32 out of pocket. The Prime Minister would get the same treatment by the same doctor...maybe save the parking fee. The rubbie on the corner would get the same treatment by the same doctor, and a cab ride, I suppose.

That's not Kumbyah...that's simply civilised.

reply to post by dannyfal


I had dual citzenship until I was 18. Then I joined the USAF and became an American.

You still haven't explained how this program is going to be so much better than the one we have now.

Defend how I get penalized if I don't go with the government plan by 2 to 8 % of my income. (ps, it's in the plan, read it. . .)

Insurance companies may decide not to PAY for some services, but they won't deny those services to you.
The government plan will.

Instead of just regurgitating Obama rhetoric, defend the actual plan, if you think it's so great!

reply to post by WhatTheory



What I'm most concerned about is the "We gotta do it right now or the world will End" attitude. This is a hugely complex piece of expensive legislation. There is no need to ramrod this through without making sure we come up with the best possible solutions. No sense in rushing it and having lots of things wrong with it, let's get it right and get everybody on board to make it truly bipartisan.

Originally posted by sos37
This is our country, not yours. Americans don't want a flawed health care system like Canada has and we certainly don't need advice from someone who doesn't live here.

Tell you what? When you guys stop citing the 'flawed Canadian system' as an example of why the greatest nation on Earth can't take care of its own, then I'll stop putting in my two-bits (cdn) worth. Deal?

It is obvious the dims found a charismatic easy to manipulate, because of his narcissism,(In the various stories he is exceptionally cruel, in that he disdains those who love him. As divine punishment he falls in love with a reflection in a pool, not realizing it was his own, and perishes there, not being able to leave the beauty of his own reflection.),

lying lap dog in Obama,

But the bloom is off the rose.

People are starting to build up an immunity to the blatant attacks used by the dims against people who dare to question their messiah.

May they all rot in hell.

[edit on 103131p://bWednesday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by dannyfal

 

Actually many for none profit hospitals like the main hospital in my city takes the uninsured and don't deny treatment to anybody that can not afford it.

They have programs that all you have to do is fill their paper work within certain amount of time to receive free health care or just have the bill work with the hospital for reduces fees and payment.

So it depends the state you live in, is help for anybody but many doesn't even know.

...so if i get hit by a car i have to get on ATS, send you a u2u, figure out where you live, what hospital your talking about, then get to that hospital?

as opposed to going to my own hospital and having the $5,000 that would go to purchasing night vision goggles for the military pay for my treatment instead?

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Interesting but congress in the US has included as part of the bill that they government will not be part of the health care bill, they will still keep the health care coverage that they enjoy as the higher up elite still at the expenses of tax payer.

So in other words they don't have to wait in line with the rest of the working class.



If the bill was so good why they want to keep themselves out of it.

Only in America just the few got to enjoy the American dream.