Shock: Inside the Obama Healthcare Bill

To me the most outrageous part of this bill is in SEC. 1233. Mandatory “end of life” counseling for seniors to discourage seeking health care near the end of life. Too expensive to waste health care benefits on someone that is only going to be around a few years anyway.

Unbelievable.....Whats next, government run assisted suicide centers for seniors?

[edit on 7/22/2009 by Erasurehead]

reply to post by dannyfal


You don't have health insurance I imagine either because you can not afford it or you employer doesn't offer the insurance for you.

In Obamas bill you will be given the choice of insurance, but let me tell you that is not clear now how this is going to work, the government either going to offer some type of incentives to you for the insurance you chose or either you still have to qualify for it.

Still it depends how much money you make and still the insurance you chose is not going to be free, everybody has to pay for it.

That is why in the bill is a shadow of how the government is going to insure those that doesn't work.

Because as the way the bill stand today this only for those that hold jobs and pay taxes.

So either you will get penalized for not choosing insurance mandatory by the government or depending your income you may get an incentive, but this has to be pay by the employer.

And that bring another issue, on how many small businesses will go out of business as they will not be able to stand by the government pushing the coverage.

The way the health care bill is been brought to us, is in wave of desperation and private agendas and is bound to fail.

Nice to see a level-headed, unbiased commentary coming out of the right.

Get used to it. If this nightmare passes you can expect to hear alot more of it, from everywhere. The only reason I haven't said it was because he beat me to it! If this passes, you can kiss the US of A goodbye.

Don't you think that the Dems are looking for re-election at the end of this cycle? If every middle-class privately insured person gets screwed by this system, are they going to want to support Obama with their money and their votes?

What the f# do they care? The way this country is headed, there won't BE anymore elections for these idiots to worry about. And by idiots I mean GOP as well as the Dems.

As to providing medical care for those working poor who are going bankrupt if they get ill...where's that Christian ethic to love they neighbour? What about helping out a fellow American?

Christian ethic only applies if you do the giving willingly. If you're being TOLD to give, then it ain't charity mac, is f#ing communism.

How come Canada has the wherewithal to do it, and the States can't? This apparently retarded unemployed pot-smoking hippie twit seems to think you American are better than all that. If only you could convince yourselves.

Canada can't do it. Well, I take that back, they can do it. If they don't provide medicine to people who need it and let people die.

reply to post by marg6043


yes, it is understood that those who "aren't deserving" of HC will get it. but can you honestly sit there and say that our tax money which goes to so much other nonsense, mostly killing people... shouldn't be used to help others? even if a percentage of them happens to be unemployed or lazy or whatever they are accused of being?

there is more good than bad being done. those who try to argue that bad is being done have weak arguments that they recycle from other nonsense they have read somewhere on wikipedia or from another post. nobody has said anything original regarding the healthcare topic in a while. its more obama bashing than anything when (as someone already stated) it is a bill from previous administrations.

anyways healthcare is a bitch and if you dont have it you wouldn't be so adament in knocking the idea of helping people out. there is NO POSSIBLE WAY THAT THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM CAN GET WORSE. it is in complete shambles. pharmeceutical companies run sh*t and insurance companies could give a crap less whether you die or not.

Originally posted by Erasurehead
To me the most outrageous part of this bill is in SEC. 1233. Mandatory “end of life” counseling for seniors to discourage seeking health care near the end of life. Too expensive to waste health care benefits on someone that is only going to be around a few years anyway.

Unbelievable.....Whats next, government run assisted suicide centers for seniors?

[edit on 7/22/2009 by Erasurehead]

Actually this is 'Your not contributing with your taxes now and a burden for the rest so Screw you, your toast"! It matters not that you have paid for probably 50 years to this poor excuse for a government at one third of your income but now because you've decided to rest and take a well earned retirement we don't think we should have to help you with your needs..even though after you die we will raid your nest egg you built up for your family and take another 50-60% of that before anyone else gets it!
Our liberty and our right to decide for ourselves is going down the tubes with these morons.

Zindo

From what I can see is I think he went over the top on this bill on purpose. He doesn't want it to pass. The more moderate democrats are probably not going to vote for it.

www.cnn.com...

IMO, he knows gubmint run health care would be the death knell for quality health care in this country and he is proposing a bill that is so out of step with even his own party that they will vote it down and he can look at it as a win win. He can say he tried and that he gave it his best but the congress is against the people etc etc political rhetoric meanwhile it's business as usual for the medicine racket.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
Canada can't do it. Well, I take that back, they can do it. If they don't provide medicine to people who need it and let people die.

If you know as little about the American plan as you do about Canada's, I'd suggest you read up before you say anything more.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by mikerussellus
Canada can't do it. Well, I take that back, they can do it. If they don't provide medicine to people who need it and let people die.

If you know as little about the American plan as you do about Canada's, I'd suggest you read up before you say anything more.

THANK YOU
i think its funny when people say something thinking they look smart when in fact they just do the opposite

Originally posted by dannyfal
reply to post by marg6043

 

yes, it is understood that those who "aren't deserving" of HC will get it. but can you honestly sit there and say that our tax money which goes to so much other nonsense, mostly killing people... shouldn't be used to help others? even if a percentage of them happens to be unemployed or lazy or whatever they are accused of being?

there is more good than bad being done. those who try to argue that bad is being done have weak arguments that they recycle from other nonsense they have read somewhere on wikipedia or from another post. nobody has said anything original regarding the healthcare topic in a while. its more obama bashing than anything when (as someone already stated) it is a bill from previous administrations.

anyways healthcare is a bitch and if you dont have it you wouldn't be so adament in knocking the idea of helping people out. there is NO POSSIBLE WAY THAT THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM CAN GET WORSE. it is in complete shambles. pharmeceutical companies run sh*t and insurance companies could give a crap less whether you die or not.

Why? Why do we have to provide for those that don't have it? There are people that don't have cars, do I have to PAY for them to drive as well? There are people that didn't eat steak last night, do I have to have the government take my money so someone who didn't work for it eat a nice dinner? Why do I have to get penalized because I worked for what I got? I have a great health plan. I worked my butt off to get it. You say it can't get worse?
Let them sign this into law and you'll see worse!

If people need help then let them go to churches, charities, what ever. Hell, if someone needs help bad enough, I'll help them. But to have the government mandate that we HAVE to help those who won't do it themselves, it is disgusting!

Once this bill passes then all bets are off in terms of freedoms in this country. When we are told what to do, how to do it, when to do it, or we get fined/jailed or denied treatment then you will see the true face of what the government looks like!

-this makes me so damn sick! I need a doctor! I'll wait, 8 weeks? Ok. Denied treatment? Ok. I'm gonna die? Ok.-

Originally posted by dannyfal

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by mikerussellus
Canada can't do it. Well, I take that back, they can do it. If they don't provide medicine to people who need it and let people die.

If you know as little about the American plan as you do about Canada's, I'd suggest you read up before you say anything more.

THANK YOU
i think its funny when people say something thinking they look smart when in fact they just do the opposite

Ummm...I agree. Sure you don't want to restate that?

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


All around this country the hospitals are having trouble with their costs except in one area. That's along the Canadian border and the reason for that is all the Canadian customers they get because of the rationing that is happening in Canada. Waiting 60 days for and 'Emergency MRI' doesn't sound like the type of health care model I want for my country! Rather than wait for the health care they pay dearly for in Canada they would rather pay there own cost so they can maintain their lives. It's fact Johnny, It's sad that some get good care while others do not because the government makes the decisions with no recourse. At least here if the insurance companies stone wall and cause someone harm they can sue to be made whole. With this plan you're at the mercy of the bureaucrats that care nothing about you or your family!

Zindo







[edit on 7/22/2009 by ZindoDoone]

Originally posted by dannyfal

i work for a living. i'm not a retard i have a pretty high IQ. i work but don't get healthcare.

AAAAWWWWWW! POOR YOU! Would you like a cookie to make you feel better? Get over yourself! Here's an idea, how about you use that "High IQ" brain of yours and shop for insurance? Who ever said your employer HAD to provide you with free health care? I love how you mentioned your having a "High IQ" as if somehow that makes you better, or if it's some kind of honor badge. Having a high IQ Is WORTHLESS, if you don't know how to use it, and as it seems in your case, you're failing to use it.

if your employer all of a sudden stopped paying for your healthcare, you'd most likely tuck your ego between your legs and keep your mouth shut.

If my employer did not provide for my insurance I would either a) shop for insurance or b) make sure I stay in healthy shape (which I do anyway) and make sure I don't go to the hospital unless I'm going to die. "Tuck my ego between my legs"? Apparently you mistaken me for someone who doesn't have a spine. Like yourself.

if you don't know what your talking about, you shouldn't say anything. its as simple as that.

The same can be said to you free loading, lazy, pot smoking hipies who want everything GIVEN to you, because you don't want to WORK for it.

sometimes i think some of these people don't even deserve to be members of ATS. all they do is spread hate and ignorance. they might as well join the government.

Ahh yes, and here the liberal agenda rears its ugly head "Only say what we WANT you to say, and if you disagree with us, then keep your mouth shut" The first amendment of the constitution must be a REAL B*TCH for you people. Too bad for you the 1st amendment was written in order to protect that which you DON'T want to hear, and not the other way around.

by the way, if i were your parents i would be the one that was ashamed

actually, my parents are VERY proud of me because of all the accomplishments I have made through out my short life on this earth, and it was ALL done because I had a very strong work ethic, and strong principles. Even when I was unemployed during the "hard times" not only did I still find a job, but also REFUSED govt. handouts OR go to the Dept. of Labor in my state. In our family the mantra has always been "You want something? You have to WORK HARD for it! Don't wait for someone else to give it to you"

Because of that, I've been able to land in the job of my dreams (Even during a tough recession), a job many here could only WISH they could have, with benefits many here would only make them jealous. Because of this ethic, my wife is finally taking steps towards making a CAREER and not have "Just another 9-5 job". Because of this, 2 of my brothers have been able to appear on TV and be opening acts at several concerts. Ashamed? No, my parents aren't ashamed. They're proud to see their little kids took our family's work ethic to heart. That we understood that life wasn't FREE, and that if we wanted to make something of ourselves, we had to WORK for it, because we KNEW that there would always be people like YOU, FREELOADERS who will do everything in their power to take it away.

Originally posted by dannyfal
reply to post by Question

 

Oh, and if you think the government hasn't handed YOU anything.... your completely delusional. where do you think the schools, roads, post office, etc. come from?

there are better ways to express your opinion other than making yourself look like a fool

WE pay for those with our state and federal income taxes you t*it! Funny that you mention that though, because it doesn't seem like the govt. is doing a good job even at that in the first place!

Originally posted by mikerussellus

There are people that don't have cars, do I have to PAY for them to drive as well? There are people that didn't eat steak last night, do I have to have the government take my money so someone who didn't work for it eat a nice dinner? Why do I have to get penalized because I worked for what I got? I have a great health plan. I worked my butt off to get it. You say it can't get worse?

do you have roads? do you have your own school? do you own your own library? ... because other people PAY for you to have those things. you are not being PENALIZED, your taxes are being allocated to something more beneficial than wars and pointless stuff. this is a very weak argument. i have already defended it, if you don't think that you are being handed anything than you are DELUSIONAL.

If people need help then let them go to churches, charities, what ever. Hell, if someone needs help bad enough, I'll help them. But to have the government mandate that we HAVE to help those who won't do it themselves, it is disgusting!

everything the government mandates we HAVE to do. isn't that what the definition of a law is? we HAVE to pay for the military? i never agreed to that. we HAVE to pay for policeman. i never agreed to that. again... weak argument. the government is already allocating our taxes to stuff we don't want, they might as well be HELPING instead of wasting.

Once this bill passes then all bets are off in terms of freedoms in this country. When we are told what to do, how to do it, when to do it, or we get fined/jailed or denied treatment then you will see the true face of what the government looks like!

they already tell us what to do how to do it when to do it or we get fined/jailed... where the hell have you been? this bill won't change anything in that respect

-this makes me so damn sick! I need a doctor! I'll wait, 8 weeks? Ok. Denied treatment? Ok. I'm gonna die? Ok.-

-ignorant comment no need to defend

reply to post by ZindoDoone


This Bill will serve to completely shake apart the Hippocratic Oath that most doctors have sworn to uphold. There is a little line in the Oath that relates to the general act of playing god. Apparently the govt. is going to want doctors to assume the role of the Almighty.

I feel sorry for the doctors if this bill passes. In fact this bill may backfire and result in a mass exodus of physicians leaving their practices behind due to ethical concerns forced upon them by the govt. In comes the Chinese doctors at your local Wal-Mart Hospital. You can shop while you wait for hours for your number to come up.

A little bit from the oath itself. This is from the modern version that is most widely used in the U.S. nowadays. The last sentence sums it all up.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

[edit on 22-7-2009 by jibeho]

Originally posted by mikerussellus

As to providing medical care for those working poor who are going bankrupt if they get ill...where's that Christian ethic to love they neighbour? What about helping out a fellow American?

Christian ethic only applies if you do the giving willingly. If you're being TOLD to give, then it ain't charity mac, is [snip] communism.


Thank you Mike! Nice to see another level headed person in here. I was getting tired of these ridiculous liberal utopian "kumbaya" idealogies that have no basis in reality.

You're right though about charity. Funny that these godless liberals like to mention us christians and charity. I guess they want US to do ALL the charity for them, while they go ahead and rob us blind of our wallets.


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[edit on 22-7-2009 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by Question

Originally posted by dannyfal
reply to post by Question

 

Oh, and if you think the government hasn't handed YOU anything.... your completely delusional. where do you think the schools, roads, post office, etc. come from?

there are better ways to express your opinion other than making yourself look like a fool

WE pay for those with our state and federal income taxes you t*it! Funny that you mention that though, because it doesn't seem like the govt. is doing a good job even at that in the first place!

we (would) pay for the HC with taxes too... your statement makes no sense

you pay taxes and get things handed to you
i pay taxes and dont get anything handed to me

reply to post by dannyfal


I agree that tax is used in nonsense and the way our government works who is to tell that it will not go into nonsense health insurance and misused of funds and to fill the pockets of the few as usual, private interest rules congress.

Still the people that doesn work will not be under this bill because is not covering that issue is concentrating on businesses and people with employment.

Also is going to become a tax burden to all of us regardless of income and remember is not free as long as you work you are to pay for it.

People are losing jobs they will keep losing jobs, people are getting pay cuts they will keep getting pay cuts and our economic situation will not improve or get any better with this government health insurance and is been told over and over that it will not help the cost of the health insurance either.

We have been lied on just so the government can push a bill that forced health insurance on everybody, and we are to pay for it or be penalized.

Just don't let the lies about Free cloud your mind is nothing free on this bill.

There are some 45 million americans, who are working, that have no healthcare coverage.

That is wrong on so many levels it is amazing.

Do you honestly think it's lazy hippies that are the problem here?

Right now your insurance agent stands between you and your treatment.
And that's different from having a civil servant do it how?

the right wingers are losing it on this one. They are even using a cyst removal patient from canada as propaganda because she went to sinai to have her cyst removed and they are even lying saying she had a tumor which wasn't the case.

So, when all they got is 1 canadian, who is telling less than the truth about the Canadian health care system, which the american system is NOT being modeled off of by the way because it is clear there is a 3 tier system in america (self payers/ state paid/ illegals), then the argument is just gnashing teeth angrily because they don't like the idea of having a stable government that handles health care.

what's wrong with the right wing of america anyway? NOt that the left is great, but what's up with all the lies and foolish resistance to helping other americans? THat's just nuts.

reply to post by dannyfal


Taxable income was cut 44% in the nation because unemployment for the fed this year, meaning that if you have kept with the news unemployment rates are soaring with no end in site.

This means less taxable income to support programs like this health care bill and government deficit will just soar.

Do not get fooled by the promises that only the very rich will be paying more taxes.

The work force in America that had supported the Nations economy comes from the middle class no the very rich, as they have plenty of lawyers, lobbyist and crocks in government to help them get out of losing money, remember the bailouts.

Don't believe the lies, the government can not afford this bill unless they add more taxes to whatever taxable income is out there and right now by this time next year more than 50% of taxable income will be gone.

That only leaves this nation of working poor to support the mammoth programs the government is financing but not cutting.