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Shock: Inside the Obama Healthcare Bill

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posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777 I have a right to have an opinion, and BTW you are mean spirited .
For one I don't have health care myself, and I think this bill will make matters worse for me and everyone else.
We all work BTW and we don't live off the system, I haven't seen a doctor in twenty years, so cut me some slack.


Sorry you think I am mean spirited. I see my cousins to the south devouring each other in a rage, and the issue...well, this issue...is whether or not one's brethren (gender-neutral) are entitled to health care without going broke.

I speak as one who lives in a system that...for the vast majority of the members...serves them well. Getting sick or injured carries little threat beyond the circumstance itself. I got my cancer cured for $32...and we have a good standard of living up here.

I simply wish the same for y'all. And I cannot see how the system could be worse than what you cite now.

Peace be upon you.




posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Erasurehead
To me the most outrageous part of this bill is in SEC. 1233. Mandatory “end of life” counseling for seniors to discourage seeking health care near the end of life. Too expensive to waste health care benefits on someone that is only going to be around a few years anyway.


Unbelievable.....Whats next, government run assisted suicide centers for seniors?

[edit on 7/22/2009 by Erasurehead]


I agree, after visiting a friend in the hospital the lady in the other bed was recovering from surgery and was out of it. A lady walked in and her clip board had Medicaid printed on it. She shook this lady who had no idea what was going on and got her to sign a form, there was no way she could read what she was signing nor was it explained to her. I managed to get a look at this form, it was a DNR. This poor woman, who appeared to be in her thirties, just potentially signed her life away without a clue.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by genomega

Originally posted by Erasurehead
To me the most outrageous part of this bill is in SEC. 1233. Mandatory “end of life” counseling for seniors to discourage seeking health care near the end of life. Too expensive to waste health care benefits on someone that is only going to be around a few years anyway.


Unbelievable.....Whats next, government run assisted suicide centers for seniors?

[edit on 7/22/2009 by Erasurehead]


I agree, after visiting a friend in the hospital the lady in the other bed was recovering from surgery and was out of it. A lady walked in and her clip board had Medicaid printed on it. She shook this lady who had no idea what was going on and got her to sign a form, there was no way she could read what she was signing nor was it explained to her. I managed to get a look at this form, it was a DNR. This poor woman, who appeared to be in her thirties, just potentially signed her life away without a clue.



Yes! This sounds kind of creepy having some government guy
come to you and suggest that it would be best if you do us all
a really big favor and just die.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
People the reason our health care in the nation accounts for 19 percent or our GDP and the hight cost of private care, is yes you know it, The Government.

Back in the 1960s the health care cost accounted for only 5 percent of GDP by 1994 it was 13 percent.

What changed? Government creation of what we know as the popular entitlement program call Medicare. When government takes money out of citizens pay checks to pay for entitlement programs it creates the biggest mess in the history of the nation.

That is what Medicare has done to the nation, now Obamacare will do the same to the tax payer take money out of their pay checks or force businesses into government entitlement programs and guess what, is going to be the same disastrous results as the Medicare has cause to this nation.

Why? because government doesn't have the ability to do accountability for spending.

Is not that Medicare have fail is the government what fail Medicare

And another entitlement program run by the government will fail miserable again.

[edit on 23-7-2009 by marg6043]


I read an artticle that talked about Medicare and having the government take over all healthcare was akin to giving an alcoholic a drink to cure him.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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Having read the first 100 pages or so, 1 thing was comfortably glossed over by the OP. (and any hater of the bill)
The details about "former afflictions or health impairments" You hopefully realize that it means the insurance companies can no longer screw you over on "pre-existing conditions" ? (a true favourite with insurers to prevent any pay-out of benefits...) Seeing that in print in the (assumedly) real Health-bill is quite revolutionary, since formerly, health-insurers were free to worm their way out of any claim by searching high and low for these "pre-existing medical conditions" even a small sinesitis could do:" whamma...no payment of hospital bills, cough up the money yourselves"..Yohoo ,insurers happy, profitability ensured..That's what it all was about until now ,the profit margin of greedy,unscrupulous multi-millionnaires that didn't need any insuring, hell, they could buy the friggin' hospitals, doctors et all , if so inclined..
Read at least part of the damn thing before spouting rubbish, parrotting dubious Obama haters and corporate patsies in the GOP echelons.

Do You not see it? The sc. NWO are still trying to prevent a healthy and fight-ready people. They are deadly afraid of a healthy people, because healthy people have the energy to think about different things beyond just "surviving" They do not like that...

You Obama-haters deserve the failing of the bill..let's see what a financially&morally bust people we, with an ever increasing sick&phisically decrepid populace, can be on the world-stage.
.We are about to become superfluous,redundant, no longer important. Europe, Asia, they are overtaking TheUS left and right,buying us out, laughing their a$$es off, while we keep quarreling and arguing, doing our utter best to be a stand-still society....

Aargh..Frack-it all to Hell..We are doomed anyway.. bust, no roofs over our heads, up to our necks in debt, wars that won't go away, oil companies that will sabotage anything that doesn't fit their profit-predictions, a corrupt senate that only listens to tonnes of lobbyists(still going strong, despite Obama's tries to get rid of them..i smell some "ïf I scratch your back..."tit-for-tat with corporate America) A whole culture that hates our guts(Arab/muslim world) whatever we do.

I am going underground. got me a nice UZI , tonnes of 9mm-nato and a 10-years supply of ravioli....


[edit on 23-7-2009 by diakrite]


[edit on 23-7-2009 by diakrite]

[edit on 23-7-2009 by diakrite]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by diakrite
 


I hate to break this to you, but nobody said there wouldn't be some good things in the bill that needs to be done.

You know what, you sit here and complain about the NWO and all this, but yet, it sounds like you in favor of this bill, when the this bill is the government take-over of the health insurance industry.


NWO? American Gov.? Uhh, It thought they were one in the same honestly.

The thing about it, is they don't care about us, if they did then they would have already stopped the insurance agencies from doing it.

Don't you find it a little odd that nobody in congress wanted to pass any health care reform unless it was the gov. takeover of the health industry in some way shape or form?

The reason why the world is laughing at us is because we have amateur hour in the White House, and a bunch of lemming who voted for Obama thinking that socialism is the way to go.

So now here we are moving to socialism while the rest of the world is struggling to break its death grip.

That is the nitty gritty. If you don't want a NWO then you will be opposed to the gov takeover of any industry. That is why the world is laughing at us.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 09:42 PM
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Socialism?? Don't make me laugh .We couldn't see real socialism if it pooped on our heads.
As far as my political sciences teacher told me, "socialism"was about fair sharing of wealth. f.i. Canada is a "socialist nation" then..

I guess we like "corporatism&kleptocracy" way better...

All in all I was just commenting on the fact that a lot of "nay-sayers" hadn't read the bill, and only listened to the mouthpieces of the GOP. We really deserve what is coming for us..

Back to my fallout-shelter. Wake me in about 8 years..



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by diakrite
 


Ivory Tower worker, continuing to believe there exist such a thing as "equal sharing of wealth" and calling what exist today not socialist, don't make me


That is why the world is laughing at us because when it comes to socialism and communism and capitalism it's all ideological and doesn't work as designed.

Out of the three capitalism works best.

But back on topic, not all of us deserve it, but we are going to have to all suffer right along with all the ones that think they want what is coming.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
Where the system may not be perfect it does provide care. This will punish those who have private insurance and provide to those who do not want it or do not work hard enough to have and pay for it.

I would rather them pass a bill that provided government health care for all children and the elderly rather than enable non working people access to health care while those out there working 2 or 3 jobs are forking over 1/4 of their pay for insurance


i am disturbed by the implication here that those who are not working, who are presumably now a larger segment of the population than before the "crisis," have no right to health care. apparently basic human rights should only be afforded people who can afford them.

i'm in Canada, and i've been on both sides of the fence... working and non-working. paying for someone else's basic health care doesn't offend me. there are times i wasn't working and was seriously ill, and if i had not had access to health care, i likely would have died... and then... i would not be here to pay for my and other citizens' health care today. oh, and it doesn't take 1/4 of my pay to do so. i pay about 1/3 of my pay to taxes, both federal and provincial, employment insurance, canada pension, life and disability insurance, and private pension... oh yeah and union dues. but i'm also lucky to have the job and stability i do, so i don't bitch about it.

i also lived in the U.S. for about 8 months and did not have health care coverage when there. i found that gave me a feeling of fear and helplessness. i admire much about your country, but this idea that not everyone should be entitled to health care is blatantly and whole-heartedly elitist. and wrong.

re: the bill, just so i don't appear to be totally off topic, i've downloaded it and am going to see if i can find anything nefarious there. aside from the usual gov't-speak and ineffective bureaucratic nonsense.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
That is why the world is laughing at us because when it comes to socialism and communism and capitalism it's all ideological and doesn't work as designed.
Out of the three capitalism works best.


I donno about that comment. You'd best be speaking in the past tense, because you are now living in a post-capitalist global economy. Capitalism died about the same time the USSR fell...it just took until last fall for the corpse to begin to stink so's we'd sit up and notice.

And you could look at a lot of models around the world...in Europe and Scandinavia, for instance, and be hard pressed to point out how their brand of socialism is not working.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by tsloan
 


Thanks for bringing that other issue, yes you are right, many of the privately owned hospitals will bee indeed going out of businesses.

Hospitals like mine in my neck of the woods that I love very much, is a none profit, so it will probably boom with the Obamacare.

Still many major hospitals in the US are also owned by religious organizations I wonder if those will survive.



Spot-on..The private ran hospitals will get pinched very soon. My finacee works for Hopkins in Baltimore...They are cutting WAY back budget short coming and hiring freeze is in full effect. The non-profits will prosper greatly from this program. The religious backed I think will also weather the storm. But I see 45-50% of the private owned hospitals falling in the next 3-5 years. This program is a life line to corporate ran medicine (is it right for us to foot the bill)..NO WAY, but. Our country would loose their minds if our government came right out and bailed out health care after the banking non-sense and car industry. These "bail outs" were pay offs. And after seeing the public back lash over them the government knows they CANT just have another bail out to the medical sector. So the only way to inject a capitol and cash life line is to reform the way hospitals and medical get it's funds.This is crooked as a upper case "M"... but it is also the only way we are going to keep a medical sector from crumbling under the pressure of over bloated prices and outta control waste in this industry.
This program is a government bail out to healthcare believe it or not it's just done in a way that people will see they get something out of it? It's not going to be perfect in any way...But hey I would rather get something out of this than nothing like we got from the "banking bailout" or the car "bail-out"...Oh wait we got CASH 4 CLUNKERS out of the auto bail out...yeppy...



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 11:20 AM
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[edit on 05-28-2009 by tsloan]



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 11:54 AM
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Well, after reading that long list full of spelling errors I decided that I should probably compare that huge list to the actual bill. I don't know how you confirmed these "spot on" descpritions of the provisions... but i looked at a few of them and compared them to the bill. Looks to me like somebody is exaggerating a bit too much. I decided over the weekend I will go over this list, compare it to the bill, and instead of listing the page number and putting my own description i will put what the bill actually says so we can ALL constructively figure out what the hell this Bill means... and also so we can discuss the implications of these provisions.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by tsloan
 


I imagine that religious owned hospital will also get a boost, still getting rid of privately owned will indeed bring also a degradation of quality care.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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House healthcare talks break down in anger

thehill.com...


House healthcare negotiations dissolved in acrimony on Friday, with Blue Dog Democrats saying they were “lied” to by their Democratic leaders.

In advance of a subsequent press conference called by House leadership, Blue Dog liaison Rep. Dennis Cardoza (D-Calif.) said the healthcare bill should be staying in committee.

"I expect the committee process to proceed," Cardoza said.


The seven Blue Dogs on the Energy and Commerce Committee stormed out of a Friday meeting with their committee chairman, Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), saying Waxman had been negotiating in bad faith over a number of provisions Blue Dogs demanded be changed in the stalled healthcare bill.



“I’ve been lied to,” Blue Dog Coalition Co-Chairman Charlie Melancon (D-La.) said on Friday. “We have not had legitimate negotiations.

“Mr. Waxman has decided to sever discussions with the Blue Dogs who are trying to make this bill work for America,” Melancon said.

Although those Blue Dogs were supposed to be headed back into another meeting of the Energy and Commerce Democrats, their anger was visible.

If the two sides cannot reach an agreement, the only hope for passage of the bill in the House will be to go straight to the floor, an option leaders shied away from endorsing but said was an option.

But the Blue Dogs issued dire warnings to leaders contemplating that approach.

"Waxman simply does not have votes in committee and process should not be bypassed to bring the bill straight to floor,” Rep. Mike Ross (D-Ark.), the lead Blue Dog negotiator, said on Friday. “We are trying to save this bill and trying to save this party.”

Melancon said there would be 40-45 “solid no” votes from the 52-strong Blue Dogs, among other problems throughout the caucus. And Melancon said there are more Democrats who will vote against the bill.

“If they try to bring it to the floor, I think they’ll find out they have more problems than the Blue Dogs.”

A leadership aide said no decisions have been made on how to proceed.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by tsloan
 


I imagine that religious owned hospital will also get a boost, still getting rid of privately owned will indeed bring also a degradation of quality care.


A comment, courtesy of Bill Mahar:

If conservatives get to call universal health care "socialized medicine," I get to call private health care "soulless vampires making money off human pain." The problem with President Obama's health care plan isn't socialism, it's capitalism.

And if medicine is for profit, and war, and the news, and the penal system, my question is: what's wrong with firemen? Why don't they charge? They must be commies. Oh my God! That explains the red trucks! www.huffingtonpost.com...


Oh, and let the flames fly!



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
A comment, courtesy of Bill Mahar:

If conservatives get to call universal health care "socialized medicine," I get to call private health care "soulless vampires making money off human pain." The problem with President Obama's health care plan isn't socialism, it's capitalism.


No wonder he is just a talk show host.

Does he even know the definition of capitalism and socialism or does he get his talking points from "Liberals R Us".

That makes absolutely no sense. Only people who are dumb, lack an education, easily swayed, gullible or just plain stupid would believe or even understand that drivel.


Umm......how is the government running healthcare capitalism?
That is the exact opposite and is in fact, socialism. What he said makes no sense.

Using his flawed and retarded logic, I guess the government now becomes the souless vampire who will just kill everyone who is unborn if the woman wishes and kill everyone over 65 to help reduce costs.


[edit on 7/24/2009 by WhatTheory]



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 10:00 PM
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If we look beyond partisan bickering and fear mongering, on both sides, it is easy to see that the current model for health care in the United States is both inefficient and outdated.

We should challenge our representatives to approach the subject from a scientific, as well as logical, perspective. Without innovation and change even the most successful, or in this case non-successful, business models will fail.



Link



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

That makes absolutely no sense. Only people who are dumb, lack an education, easily swayed, gullible or just plain stupid would believe or even understand that drivel.


I think, that if you follow the link, you'll find that Mahar's premise is that the basic flaw in Obama's scheme is that it still leaves room for profiteering at the expense of the public. His point...perfectly clear to me...is that health care should be delivered as a basic right. Firemen are paid...but does the fire department seek to profit by its service?

It isn't that tough to figure out. The title of his commentary, readily available to anybody wanting to cast an informed opinion, is:

New Rule: Not Everything in America Has to Make a Profit


So...lesson is that if you don't understand what is being said to you...follow the links made available for that purpose. Helps so as to not embarrass ones self.



posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
So...lesson is that if you don't understand what is being said to you...follow the links made available for that purpose. Helps so as to not embarrass ones self.

** SIGH **
You do know how forums work right?

You do understand that my response was directed towards what I quoted and not his entire article right? Geesh!

Before jumping the gun and having a knee-jerk reaction, please try and focus. Comprehension is your friend.



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