It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Shock: Inside the Obama Healthcare Bill

page: 15
68
<< 12  13  14    16  17  18 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:19 PM
link   
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


During this thread I have tried so hard to make people understand that Obamacare is not what this nation needs right now.

Health care reform yes, but not under the type of bill Obama is trying to push right now.

Is going to bankrupt the nation yes people, no only is not going to give care to the 40% of the nation that doesn't have health care right now but the burden of the cost will bankrupt the nation eventually, as the mounting cost of covering this health care will take a toll on the nations tax payer.

We need reform but not like this. . .




posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
But if they tried that crap in Canada, you'd be able to retire on the results of the lawsuit. There is a middle ground, you know.


I do agree with you there. I wholeheartedly reject Donkey_Dean's assertions that the health care system in America is the worst ever. It's not. The health care system here has served me and mine well, just as the Canadian system has served you well. But our system isn't perfect, just as Canada's system isn't perfect. There's no such thing as a perfect system.

I also agree that our health care system needs changes. But the things that THIS health care bill proposes are outrageous and in some cases they are counter to the Constitution itself, as another ATS member pointed out previously. Nevermind the cost in this fragile economy - the hit Americans would take to their individuality and privacy would be astounding.

What I am thankful of is that there are enough of the "Blue Dog" Democrats who are applying the brakes to this horrible piece of legislation and who aren't afraid to tell Obama and Pelosi that they are trying to railroad this thing too fast. If Obama isn't careful, he's going to lose support of people who previously trusted him to make the right decisions simply because he wants to "get it done" with no regard for the fine print or the consequences.

[edit on 23-7-2009 by sos37]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:31 PM
link   
People the reason our health care in the nation accounts for 19 percent or our GDP and the hight cost of private care, is yes you know it, The Government.

Back in the 1960s the health care cost accounted for only 5 percent of GDP by 1994 it was 13 percent.

What changed? Government creation of what we know as the popular entitlement program call Medicare. When government takes money out of citizens pay checks to pay for entitlement programs it creates the biggest mess in the history of the nation.

That is what Medicare has done to the nation, now Obamacare will do the same to the tax payer take money out of their pay checks or force businesses into government entitlement programs and guess what, is going to be the same disastrous results as the Medicare has cause to this nation.

Why? because government doesn't have the ability to do accountability for spending.

Is not that Medicare have fail is the government what fail Medicare

And another entitlement program run by the government will fail miserable again.

[edit on 23-7-2009 by marg6043]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:33 PM
link   
reply to post by marg6043
 


I agree, some people just don't get it, they would rather base their opinions off of their emotions and not the facts.

And we all know what happens with that situation. We have to listen to the complaining and whining from the people that pushed hard for it when they find out it is even worse than what we have now.

To problem is the most of the liberals want control and most of the repubs want to protect the bottom line of the conglomerates.

No meaningful reform is going to happen until people learn they have to vote in people that will work in our best interest. That won't ever happen because people think the government and other people owe them something.

We really are screwed as a country, I am almost in favor of a collapse just so we can be like a phoenix and rebuild from the ashes.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by jmotley
 



Now if you have a better plan to get these millions of people esspecially the children affordable healthcare I would love to hear it.


You want a better plan? How about making insurance companies be able to compete country wide instead having to find a plan in your state. How about cutting unnecessary programs from the government? How about enforcing the law on fraudulent uses of entitlement programs, how about cutting taxes so we have more money in our pockets, how about making it cheaper for doctors to afford mal-practice insurance.

There have been tons of idea introduced to reduce cost, but not enough people get elected to do any of these measures. Obama voted against health insurance reform when DeMint introduced legislation.

Your being had. You are blaming the people that helped it along, not the people that enabled it to happen which is the politicians.


There are plans that are country wide. I had one at my last job I loved it. But it was expensive.

Depends on what your idea on un-necessary programs are. But for the most part on that I agree.

The rest of your ideas I agree with bu I do not see those in power (not politicions) giving up there money.

I am blaming both sets of people. those who helped us get to this point and those that enabled it. and just in case your wondering I am not supporting this bill just because it came from Obama. Although I was to young to vote with clinton I supported it when he tried to do the same.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by sos37

I also agree that our health care system needs changes. But the things that THIS health care bill proposes are outrageous and in some cases they are counter to the Constitution itself, as another ATS member pointed out previously.


What you're saying is reasonable enough. What this thread has pointed out most successfully is that there are a lot of Americans that support inaction or obstruction solely to torpedo Obama, for solely partisan reasons, and the health care of their brethren be damned.

That is reprehensible.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by jmotley
Yes I think this plan will help millions.

That is why I said you are confused.

Look, government is inept at running anything.
Since the government run programs called Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare & the United States Post Office, just to name a few, are totally bankrupt and filled with corruption and waste, what makes you believe that the government can efficiently run a national healthcare system?
Why would you want the government to control your life from cradle to grave?



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by jmotley
There are plans that are country wide. I had one at my last job I loved it. But it was expensive.

Depends on what your idea on un-necessary programs are. But for the most part on that I agree.

The rest of your ideas I agree with bu I do not see those in power (not politicions) giving up there money.

I am blaming both sets of people. those who helped us get to this point and those that enabled it. and just in case your wondering I am not supporting this bill just because it came from Obama. Although I was to young to vote with clinton I supported it when he tried to do the same.


But there aren't plans nationwide for individuals and families. They thing you don't understand though is that the government has allowed these conglomerates to run ruff shed over us.

They never would have been able to if the government didn't pass laws to protect their bottom line.

This bill is going to cost you more money, through taxes. This has to all be paid for somehow. It won't be but a few years before everyone is paying 50%+ in just income taxes to keep this monstrosity of a government afloat.

The needless programs are the programs that the politicians have set up that serve the same functions as another program that already exists. They set these programs up that don't do anything just for political payback.

There is one thing you have to remember and that is Business don't make the laws, Congress makes the laws. Congress is the enabler.

The purpose of business is the bottom line so you can't blame them, but you can blame congress for allowing them to screw everybody for the bottom line.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by jmotley
 



Believe me I know that this will more then likly be a disater when it first starts but it's a step in the right direction. Thats why I'm behind 95% of this bill


There is no point in trying to explain it to you when you make a statement like this.

This is the same old line, of Lets do "something" just for the sake of doing "something".

You have your mind made up and nothing I say or anybody else is going to change it.


This country was a disaster when it first sarted. The path that we chose to follow was practically unheard of in the civilised world. Our forefathers did something for the sake of doing something then and now we are one of the greatest countries in the world. If everyine sit back and argues about what needs to get done then nothing gets done. I cant think of one government program that was not a disater in on way or another that later turned out to be great. The same goes for the priviate sector also.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:56 PM
link   
reply to post by jmotley
 



This country was a disaster when it first sarted. The path that we chose to follow was practically unheard of in the civilised world. Our forefathers did something for the sake of doing something then and now we are one of the greatest countries in the world. If everyine sit back and argues about what needs to get done then nothing gets done. I cant think of one government program that was not a disater in on way or another that later turned out to be great. The same goes for the priviate sector also.


No the forefathers did something for Freedom. To escape the exact path we are going down now. We already had a government set up during the revolution. The King was taxing them to death.

They did what they did for freedom, and this bill is changing this country fundamentally.

Want to know what the future holds for us? Read up on the french revolution and the factors that caused it, if you haven't already.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 02:57 PM
link   
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 




What difference does it make whether I like or dislike Obama?

You know I can't stand Obama, but I have never been like the Bush haters who resort to personal attacks, or the Palin haters, I only have attacked his policies never the man, or his family, I have a right to have an opinion, and BTW you are mean spirited .

For one I don't have health care myself, and I think this bill will make matters worse for me and everyone else.

I know all about government care, my daughter has to use a community clinic for her type one diabetes, yesterday after waiting six week for her insulin, we found out they had not even ordered it yet, and they came up with a lot of new paper work she had to fill out before they would order it.

We all work BTW and we don't live off the system, I haven't seen a doctor in twenty years, so cut me some slack.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:01 PM
link   
reply to post by marg6043
 


Marg,

As crazy as it seems yes they want to piggy bank the working class and it's not a matter of "if" it's when, this is going to happen. I have gotten federal mandates that out line how my company's insurance claims on broken retainers will be handled. The Republicans and Democrats are in on this plan together they may sit and do smoke screen media finger pointing but this plan is designed for a massive influx of jobs that will come at a later time. And as far as "middle class" no such thing any more..I'm sorry the middle class was well on it's way out by the late 70's and early 80's. "Working class" replaced middle class. Like I said it's not a perfect system..what is? But I would rather have a system that doesn't work so well than not have one at all....Remember all those who lost thier jobs? Well all those who lost their jobs lost most of their health care..Well when those people get sick now where do you think they go? The go to the emergency room now. And they are not covered...so now we are going to have a giant wave of hospital closing that we haven't even begun to see within the next 3-5 years because people have no way of paying their medical bills. The hospitals and doctors RIGHT now are starting to have trouble getting credit for new facilities and medical devices. This job loss market has only begun to see the ripple effects. The car industry and housing were the first to fall well let me tell yea as spoiled as this country is we can walk to get where we are going. If the medical sector gets hit then the SHTF for real cause no hospitals is a whole different world of trouble and last time I checked the Shamans are not hanging out on corners in this county. There is alot more to this bill than just a forced government mandate insurance sector.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:02 PM
link   
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


The bill with all the 1000 pages of pork amendments and sub tittles will be enforced eventually through your pay checks as another entitlement bill like Medicare.

I will not be surprised if we will find that Obamacare will replace the Medicare tax or will add another tax on top of Medicare.

Because people doesn't understand that even Medicare is not free.

We pay with taxes for it even if we don't get to use it until later on in life like SS.

We get tax on it regardless, Obama care will become another tax.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:06 PM
link   
reply to post by tsloan
 


Thanks for bringing that other issue, yes you are right, many of the privately owned hospitals will bee indeed going out of businesses.

Hospitals like mine in my neck of the woods that I love very much, is a none profit, so it will probably boom with the Obamacare.

Still many major hospitals in the US are also owned by religious organizations I wonder if those will survive.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:16 PM
link   
Here is a cool link which shows the the U.S. debt regarding just about everything. It covers everything from the U.S. national debt to the debt of medicare and medicare to how much everything is costing us as individual citizens.

www.usdebtclock.org...

[edit on 7/23/2009 by WhatTheory]



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:20 PM
link   
reply to post by marg6043
 


I agree, I fear something even worse is going to happen.

If they get access to our bank accounts they will start reaching in and taking a percentage of every deposit we make. If you deposit 100 bucks they will match it up to your tax bracket and they will take that percentage away, even when they tax your income.

This bill is bad bad news. Just the section that says they are going to get access to our bank accounts is enough for this bill to fail never mind all the other stuff.

It just really boggles my mind how anybody can be in support of the government having the legal authority to look at how much money you have in your bank account.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:25 PM
link   
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


That is because at the end it will become another entitlement program just like SS and Medicare and Medicaid.

There will be a tax to our pay checks, that is why all those provision subtitles on the bill come in to enforced the bill by law.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:32 PM
link   
reply to post by marg6043
 


Yes it will. Just another over blown underfunded entitlement program. For some of the stuff I'm reading though, We aren't going to make it. America will collapse before too long. I fear it's just around the corner too.

Maybe not this fall, but in the next year or two. We have commercial real estate bubble coming up and we are, as HX3 says, Scroomed.

Once that goes health care will be last thing on anybody's mind people will just be happy to get food.

Now they want to cap and trade and universal health insurance. These people are nuts.

We can't afford what we have not much less more entitlement programs. Oh I'll post this thread I posted last night, it is a graph of where all of our income taxes go to spend. It's crazy, and the graph does not include SS, medicare, and medicaid.

Death and Taxes Now remember this is just the proposed budget for fiscal year 2010. :shk:



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 03:53 PM
link   
The New Health Care Reform has it all backwards. Where are we showing honor to our fathers and mothers for all their hard work. Should they not come before the government in any blanketed policy ideas. I say they should be honored above the meat grinder named, "Excuse Maker."

The main issue which is now out of focus is sovereignty. Yes sovereignty, the very thing which strenghend this country for many years. Otherwise known as nationalism, a system who recognizes its own citizens before members of other countries.

Who said the constitution should be interpreted to include aliens or illegal aliens who are in fact not citizens of the United States. Why are their works not being taxed to stimulate the government? Why do aliens receive free health care, when they could in fact purchase a cheaper form of lower insurance classification to stimulate the industry? Why is the government not enforcing the laws on the books and making new citizens. The reality is the government is not settling issues by law, but by spending bills which only negatively affect its citizens.

Taxation without representation rings a bell, anyone? If anyone in America should expect to receive benifits guarenteed by the constitution then they should pay taxes like everyone else. The constitution represents it people which are taxed and by liberty the people allow this government to perform services to its people, not the rest of the world and their problems.

Dont get the wrong idea here. But I see 10 million or more people here who could be stimulating the government and helping government away from any form of meat grinder central planning. We are a nation or lets say republic which was built up by its hard works correct? Why not eliminate tax exemption for aliens and offer them insurance premiums affordable to them, insted of telling the American people what they can or cannot do, when initially, when the constitution was created, the people allow the government to comply with their will.

When this country began, it was not started by people who where really concerned like lost confused children looking for their parents to lead them. No. This country was established by people who where comfortable handling their own affairs and employed a government to ensure these liberties for themselves, Not the rest of the world.

Again, dont get the wrong idea here. We do appreciate all the hard workers here, but the time has come for them to assimilate in some way if they expect to receive government services guarenteed by the constitution. They must become tax paying citizens like the rest of us.

THe better route to improve this nation is not by spending reform. But the road less travelled says the improvision of laws in pratical ways can eliminate unnecessary spending and build revenue one day at a time, stimulating and nuturing the economy back to where it needs to be.

Folks it is no different than when all of us stood in line at school where no one tolerated a bully cutting in line. We should all be represented equally and taxed congruently by the 14th amendment, no exceptions. So in conclusion, I say, equal protection and enforcement of law is the first step to recovery.

Take your medicine and pay your taxes.



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 04:02 PM
link   
Scarry, what ever happens to land of the free? I should get my uncle and his fam out of Hayward. Like Abraham's Rescuing Lot. Man your country SUCKSSS!

Come and live with Daddy in Indonesia, we're freeeee people, can choose to pay/not pay tax and not to go to jail for our decicions.
I welcome you
beaches, coconut tree, surf, sun, creatures, gold, black gold, and my fellow citizens worship blond haired human so bad, (makes me sick). An advantage points for your skin. We worship almost every race that comes from outside, out of Stupidity.

We have tjap Tikus - Stronger than tequilla, cannabis sativa growing wild in the bushes.

Cmon! Girlsss rockin boysss!

What r u waiting for? BAIL!




top topics



 
68
<< 12  13  14    16  17  18 >>

log in

join