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UFO-phobes - Fear in debunking?

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posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 01:07 AM
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One thing we seem to share across all cultures, in all countries.... is UFO sightings. It happens all over the world. We see things we cannot explain.

Many ATS members seem to have joined ATS specifically for this reason. The unexplained is intriguing on so many levels. Many of us have seen things we can't explain. Yet it seems, even on ATS, there are members hell-bent on dis-proving every sighting. I find it odd, personally.

One thing I must admit... It seems unnatural that all of infinite space was created just for us, humans. It just seems impossible. Even friends agree. Friends, with no connection to conspiracy or anything else out of the ordinary.

So I wonder, is it fear or something else driving us toward or away from, our fascination with these unknown craft?

Anyone who does not believe, why? Is it because of Government craft, that makes you disbelieve anyone else can be visiting, or does the idea just terrify you? Perhaps it just seems as realistic as the monsters out of Jurassic Park.... unrealistic, completely?

Just wondering where people stand, and why. It is my belief that believers can even be of those with no sightings at all. The whole topic is intriguing to me...




posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by LeeannaHolland
 
I've a reasonable interest in UFO, UAPs etc and consider myself fairly informed on what passes for the subject. Rational skepticism is the only way to look at UFOs. The members that are thought to be 'debunking/disproving' are usually asking simple questions that can't be answered. Other times they point out a hoax video or misidentified 'diamond UFO' (lens artifact). The rational skeptic is narrowing the field down to a minimal number of incidents and images that remain 'unexplained.'

This is no criticism of you, just highlighting a couple of points you make aren't necessary to prove UFOs exist.


One thing I must admit... It seems unnatural that all of infinite space was created just for us, humans. It just seems impossible.


Most people agree entirely with this point. I certainly do. It doesn't mean that there's intelligent life and it's currently visiting us. X doesn't always equal Y.



So I wonder, is it fear or something else driving us toward or away from, our fascination with these unknown craft?


We can't say that they are 'unknown craft'. There's thousands of UFO reports and probably more that aren't reported. I've seen 3 UFOs...in company and unreported. A lot of the sightings are lights in the sky that are unlike anything we can explain based on what we know. Leaping to conclude that they are alien or intelligent is premature.

If this video link works (frickin YT), it's worth a look. Bill Nye is the uninformed skeptic...his position doesn't require evidence for his conclusion. Stan Friedman, is the opposite...he's highly informed about UFOs (40 years research) but makes the mistake of drawing a conclusion. My point here is that in between people like Friedman and Nye...there's room for discussion.



You Tube link



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by LeeannaHolland
 


I believe that UFOs exist for sure! It is stupid to think that we live alone in this universe.

I think there are alien intelligences much greater than ours. I think we are quite low in the scheme of things.

I have never witnessed any UFOs, but I don't need to in order to believe.

Also, why do governments deny this when they know it is true? It makes me think that there is something they are hiding which may be beneficial to people but would undermine them.

It all comes down to power, money and greed, as usual.



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by LeeannaHolland
 

As I said in another thread tonight, it's hard being a skeptic.

Rather than being afraid of the existence of UFO’s as in extraterrestrial craft, it is one of my great desires to witness something or be presented with what I consider proof of their existence.

I keep reading & reviewing cases trying to find the ones that might be "real".

There are so very few of them.





posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 07:02 AM
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i think people who believe we are being visited by Ets are actually afraid humans are alone. I think they feel powerless in the face of the problems we face on earth. War, famine, climate change and they wish for an advanced race of beings to come and "save" us.

Sorry to say i dont think that will happen. Whether we survive as a civilization will be down to us and us alone. Get used to it.



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 07:58 AM
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I believe in alien beings. When I think about all of the other stars out there, I can’t help but to think that they might hold alien life. They may be more technologically advanced than us; they may be less technologically advanced than us, or even at the same technological level as us.

Depending on their location in the universe, even if they are more technically advanced than us, they might not even see our sun as a light in their night sky, so why would they even be able to find us? Unless they accidentally look in our direction with strong telescopes, or just systematically search the entire sky with their instruments, how would they even find us?

Now if they are from another dimension or alternate reality, how many dimensions or alternate dimensions are there really? Are there an infinite number, if so, how would they stumble upon our dimension or alternate reality?

All of these questions must be considered when looking at these events being of extraterrestrial in origin. When sightings happen the believers immediately seem to think in terms of extraterrestrial, without even considering alternatives, and when trying to find the true unidentified cases can cause huge obstacles.

Most skeptics don’t have an agenda, such as disproving any and all cases; most just want to find the truth. I don’t speak for all skeptics, but it is an observation that I have come across during my trips to this site even before I became a member last year.

I have myself seen UFO’s that I was able to later identify, by keeping a calm head, taking pictures and analyzing them later. If I had posted them on here before analyzing them first, I would have felt very foolish, but by taking the time to examine them and analyze them I was able to come to the correct conclusion.



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by yeti101
Sorry to say i dont think that will happen. Whether we survive as a civilization will be down to us and us alone. Get used to it.


Well, we're pretty much screwed then. But, it's not our fault we have been manipulated, brainwashed and lied to our entire lives. There is still hope left though. People are starting to look around and realize something is f***ed up, something isn't right in this world. I'm only 20 years old myself. I consider myself lucky I've awoken this early. I see the world completely different than my friends. My friends go clubbing, withdraw large bank loans, go to movies every week etc. Oblivious to the real world. They don't know how money works, they don't know our countries history, they don't even know who our current Prime Minister for f*** sake!

TPTB have imprisoned your mind thew the MSM and other such ways. What you watch on TV, what you read in the newspaper, what you are taught in school and what you hear on the radio are examples of everyday brainwashing techniques "they" use to keep you from knowing the truth. The truth is your a slave, the "real" world has been deliberately been pulled over your eyes. You think you are free? HA! The best slaves are the slave who think they are free.

It's all a mind game. You are only told what "they" want you to believe. No accidents happen in the government. Things happen for a reason. 9/11 was a inside job. Why? The American people would never of agreed to go to war without and excuse. TPTB cause a problem, they get your reaction "Oh please save us from these bad terrorists government!" Then they give a solution. The very same people who caused the problem (9/11) now give a solution to fix their problem. Amazing isn't it?

Skeptics are like scientists. Scientists study their lives to understand the world around them. However, if another scientist comes along and their theory is different to the other scientists theory then hell breaks loose. If both scientists have come to different conclusions and the other scientists theory is proven false well... That scientist that has spent his entire life studying something that isn't correct would simply destroy him.

What I'm trying to say is, people have grown up in a world that has lied to them. A world that dismisses the existence of E.T life for example. The people believe so strongly that what they have learned during their life is true, they have a hard time letting go like a wrong scientist. I kinda went off the track, my mind wonders sometimes.



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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I fall into the catergory of believer, I have seen a UFO, or at least somethig I cannot explain as terrestrial aircraft, in the early 90's in Clapham, London I used to go out with a girl who smoked, we went out into her garden for a smoke and for some reason I looked up at the sky, it was night and the stars were spectacular, I noticed 3 yellow lights in a triangle formation, not picture each of those lights moving along an edge at equal distance to each other. I shone a torch I had on my and all 3 lights simply disappeared.
It was too low for a satellite or aircraft and too high for a helicopter, like I said unexplained.

There is so much we don't understand not only in the Universe but about this world as well, the invent of the internet and TV has helped us to try and understand our place but there is so much we dont understand, even understanding each other is tough.

With Governments hiding information from us as they deem we are not yet capable of understanding or appreciating the information in a mature reasoned way, but yet they are of the same intellect as a lot of people inthe world themselves, so what gives them the right to with-hold anything?

Sure some people wouldn't be able to assimilate the information into their lives and would probably go into some sort of future shock, like in the 1890's and early 20th century when technology started to cross from the old into the new, but people adapted, even religeon adapted to an extent, I'm pretty sure monks are no longer used to reprint and copy bibles these days right?

Aliens exist , if they visit here it is the question, I'll admit that some of the 'unexplained' sightings ARE secret military aircraft , some are not , but why would an Alien come here? Like someone earlier stated would you stop and talk to an ant and try and get it to understand you? It's bad enough trying to get a cat or a dog to understand your intentions but we try.

People are scared of assimilating new information , it goes against their beliefs, which is why they try to discredit or debunk, thos that DO believe , just smile and say " Ok" and leave it at that, don't try and cange their mind, they won't change yours so why try ?
Those that are here just to debunk or ridicule , I'd say don't bother , you'll only upset people , and make yourself look silly , theres no point trying to convert the converted, its a lost cause , just say " I don't believe" and leave it at that ok?

Aliens ( some call them demons) ( I call tose people religeous nuts but thats me) Maybe there are Demons I haven't met one yet, I haven't met an Alien either so I cannot disclaim either from existence in the whole of the universe.
Aiiens have visited here , some people here on ATS have claimed to have met one or more, I hope maybe I will one day, even if I can just lay my eyes upon one without having to communicate it would give me an answer to a question we all have, is this all there is , is there nothing more to life than chasing a 9-5 job?

It would give us a quick glimpse at our future providing we don't kill ourselves off first , that one day we can get out of the rut of killing and pillaging this world and head out to the stars.

One day maybe not in our lifetimes an Alien would give us the answers , but I favour the more likely option would be , all the people that have hidden the truth will die off so they can avoid jail time and prosecution and as soon as the last person has died full disclosure will happen, sure we get little titbits here and there, the odd sighting, the odd MSM news story but no real hard evidence.

One day , but not soon.



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


As always, you summed up the mindset of many people on ATS perfectly! It is a shame that members still get the two terms (skeptic and debunker) confused as being the same thing.


IMHO:

A debunker is someone who goes into a subject with an iron cast presupposition that the given phenomena is not real. A skeptic is mostly neutral and seeks balanced, quantifiable evidence (at least to their own standard/satisfaction) before submitting to a belief either way.

If a skeptic just happens to find data, such as a likely prosaic answer for said phenomena, it's far from being considered as a debunk. They have simply illuminated a truth, whatever that may be.

Skeptics serve believers well, whether they understand it or not, for it is the skeptic that saves the believer wasting precious energy on non events such as misinterpretations/identifications, embellishments and fabrications.

If something is not an alien craft, there is no logic in continuing to pursue it as such.

IRM



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 
Cheers for the compliment


I agree that skeptics (to a degree) serve the believers. A lot of us used to be believers and can recognize the signs of BS and hoaxers because of it. I read a war veteran describing people as sheep, wolves and sheepdogs...not in the insulting 'sheeple' way, but innocent. I like to think that most skeptics are sheepdogs.

A look at your signature and UFO Hall of Shame shows the subject is brim full of wolves/ charlatans. Nine characters that could easily be nineteen



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 10:22 AM
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I think that debunkers serve believers as well, as a skeptic (which I label wanna-believers, like myself) may be limited by his/her own personal bias whether conscious of it or not - accepting logic at times, refuting it at others. A debunker, in most cases, takes the gloves off completely to come up with an alernate explanation, no matter how rediculous it may look on the surface, due to his/her bias; and will define by contrast the event to be a true mystery. Believers are the ones that make me nervous, as they tend to refuse to see reason and logic in many alternate explanations, and stick to their guns only to the berievement of UFOlogy as a field of scientific study.

Of course, there are extremes on every side, and the few can create problems for the many in alot of individual circumstances.

Unfortunately, it is the charlatains that gain the most attn through intentional deception for monetary gain and make US ALL look foolish



posted on Jul, 23 2009 @ 01:48 PM
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Sounds like more believers than not, and a confusion that debunker automatically means skeptic.

I don't sense much fear in this thread at all, honestly. Most believers seem to embrace the idea of being visited and not being alone.

That said, there's people who hang out in the UFO topics, and not the rest of the site. But I guess that makes sense, UFO's being one of the biggest conspiracies of time itself....



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