The Rapture is a Myth. Savvy?, page 5

I am a believer(christian) and I do not believe there will be a rapture. Here is a link that talks about how the pre trib stuff came about. I find it odd how most christians I talk to believe there will be a rapture and how many churches teach pre trib stuff. I was on a search for a church at one point in time and found NO church that didn't believe in pre trib. My father is about the only person I know who believes there will not be a rapture.
www.tribwatch.com...

[edit on 7/22/2009 by concerned190]

reply to post by drock905

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argh, Here is my problem with modern christianity. How is there 100s of different types of churchs? Every group has their own specific beiefs. Everyone is different.

Mostly because of history. But the only true Christian church is the one that believes what the Bible says. True Christianity means believing that Christ died for our sins, that He rose again, and that we have to repent and place our faith in Christ to be saved.

what makes your specific version correct? Its so silly that people manipulate the bible to fit what they believe.

The only version that's correct is the one that follows what the Bible says and believes what it says.

Christians are so arrogant and its incredibly off putting. They can't prove that their version is right yet if you believe a slightly different belief you are wrong.

It's not my job to judge people's hearts (only God can do that) but it's rare that a true Christian would be arrogant. Let me put it this way. A lot of people are Christian in name only, meaning they call themselves a Christian but they haven't placed their faith in Christ and repented.

It doesn't really say anything positive about modern religion. It alls seems a bit sick to me.

Hardly modern. Christianity is 6 000 years old.

By having hundred if not thousands of versions doesn't it dillute any validity of christianity?

Like I said, there's only one true Christianity and that's the one that follows what the Bible says.

[edit on 22-7-2009 by Totakeke]

reply to post by wickywoowoo

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Why the use of past tense? Like it already happened?

One, use reasoning, why would there be a mass alien kidnapping.

reply to post by Republican08

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Now the Loooorrrddd Jesusa is a going to a get ya-a?
He isa coming on a whita hors-a
and he isa going to be whooping some ass-a
So you better be careful-a what ya say-a
Everybody say JEEESSSSUSSSSA!
Now can I get a big amen from ya?

[edit on 7/22/2009 by grapesofraft]

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by Republican08

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Now the Loooorrrddd Jesusa is a going to a get ya-a?
He isa coming on a whita hors-a
and he isa going to be whooping some ass-a
So you better be careful-a what ya say-a
Everybody say JEEESSSSUSSSSA!
Now can I get a big amen from ya?

[edit on 7/22/2009 by grapesofraft]

This thread was lacking comedic relief.

reply to post by IntastellaBurst

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Just like the 2012 theorists - it will never happen

Just something about the faithful being "raptured":

www.biblegateway.com...
"
No-one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
"

drock905

How is there 100s of different types of churchs? Every group has their own specific beiefs. Everyone is different.

If you'd define Christianity as those beliefs held by all Christians, I think you end up with this as the totality of Christianity:

1. There is a God;
2. A man named Jesus is important.

Beyond those two statements, there are plenty of assertions Christians disagree upon. Of course, for any given Christian, there are often a few assertions that s/he thinks Christians need to agree on, leading to a situation where Christians are constantly accusing one another of being non-Christians. For example abortion = murder.

Totakeke

Like I said, there's only one true Christianity and that's the one that follows what the Bible says.

Looking at the differences between Protestants and Catholics I assume you refer to examples like this:

"
Catholics on the other hand reject the doctrine of “Sola Scriptura” and do not believe that the Bible alone is sufficient.
"

www.gotquestions.org...

"
The Bible warns against those that seek to complicate and corrupt God's simple plan of salvation (2 Corinthians 11:3).
"

www.truth.info...

reply to post by Totakeke

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325 Ce Council of Nicea Foundation of Christianity Roman Emperor Constantine

Christianity is man made actually if you ever read the bible for yourself you would notice that it is not a Religious book man has attached his religions to it. It is a history book of the Hebrew Israelites. No where will you find in the bible a verse that say's Christians are my people or this is a Christian book or you must be a christian to be saved.

I guess Moses or King David or Abraham or Isaiah or Yahoshua (not Jesus) won't make the kingdom cause none of these men ever said I am a Christian

Christians all ways post John 3:16 but they never post the verses right after which says

Joh 3:17 “For Yah did not send His Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not judged, but he who does not believe is judged already, because he has not believed in the Name of the only brought-forth Son of Yah.

You see the key is you have to believe in the name of his son which is Yahoshua because of what his name means in Hebrew Yah's salvation
Now what does Jesus mean in hebrew nothing cause you can't even pronounce that name cause there is no letter J in the hebrew language still til this day.

Act 4:12 “And there is no deliverance in anyone else, for there is no other Name under the heaven given among men by which we need to be saved.”

You see there is only one name that you can call on and get salvtion because of what that name means and it is not Jesus or should I say Iesous.

Iesous, rendered as “Jesus” in English versions up to now. For example the authoritative Greek-English Lexicon of Liddell & Scott, under Iaso: the Greek goddess of healing reveals that the name Iaso is Ieso in the Ionic dialect of the Greeks, Iesous being the contracted genitive form

David Kravitz, Dictionary of Greek and Roman Mythology, we found a similar form, namely Iasus. There were four different Greek deities with the name of Iasus, one of them being the Son of Rhea. Further, it is well known that Ies is the abbreviated form of the name Iesous, and Dr. Bullinger, in

This is a Greek Deity and this is who all these christians serve who allow them to do anything as long as they believe in jesus which is pure craziness hmmm sounds like something satan would say. Hey you don't have to follow those old laws just believe in jesus and you can do anything you want. Hey you don't have to keep the Sabbath the 7th day of the week . You can worship on SUN-Day the 1st day of the week and worship the Sun although this is contrary to the bible.
Hey God wan't you to be rich and needs your money so pay your tithes to these crooked Tv Preachers so you can be blessed and they can buy mansions and helicopters and mercedes etc. Puplit Pimps with there Prosperity Teaching.

Anyway I'm off topic. I just get fed up with this Chrsitian Doctrine spreading falsehood using the bible which they don't even understand.

reply to post by Totakeke

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I think it was you who said this before.

If not for proving someone a bit askewed, it'd be good for a reference

I'd like to see it

reply to post by Republican08

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Here's one list. www.pre-trib.org...

And there's also, you know, the Bible. It doesn't mention the rapture by name but it describes a rapture-like event (regardless of whether it's pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib).

[edit on 22-7-2009 by Totakeke]

reply to post by open_eyeballs

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Thanks for replying without the preaching. Its nice to have a converstaion with someone that isnt comlpetely defensive right off the bat because someone questions there beliefs.

No problem. I only get irritated when it's obvious that someone is being a troll...you know the kind. In fact, I really truly enjoy when people question my faith. I may not have an answer, but it encourages me to get into the Bible and study to see what it says. Sometimes, I even refine or change my theological position thanks to questioning!

I understand that after Jesus died on the cross it is believed that the promise of gods people "expanded" to all those who believed in Jesus Christ, but it is apparent the fact that it is taught all through the old testament that Gods "people" are the Jews. It is pretty emphatic about that. So, if the rapture is biblical I would think it would have some sort of role in the old testament, maybe some vision by Joseph?. Again, my opinion is that those who like to look at the Bible from a pure literal perspective seem to have the hardest time being able to justify some of the contradictions between the new and old testament.

Actually, even with a "literal" interpretation of the Bible, like I have [I prefer the term "normal"], it's easy to reconcile the Old and New Testaments. Especially thanks to my belief in Dispensationalism. Anyway, that's a talk for another day. In short though, there are things that aren't in the Old Testament that are in the New because, those "new" things that are in the new are for the church. Since the church didn't exist until Acts 2, they weren't necessary to reveal to the Jews. You're correct in saying that Israel is God's people. In the modern church, mainly do to Covenant/Replacement Theology, "God's people" has been used to refer to the church, which is kinda bad since the church has a special name. The Bride of Christ. I guess God's people could have two means too. Those that belong to God and also the chosen people of Israel.

I mentioned earlier that the rapture may have had an example in the translation of Enoch. Remember how he just disappeared before the flood? I was actually thinking about this today. Jesus said that the Tribulation would happen as it was in the Noah. The Tribulation would be the equivalent to the flood [as they each are judgments]. Interestingly, Enoch was taken before the judgment occured!

Also, if you look at the book of revalations, historical scholars and theologians alike are more inclined to look at the period near jesus' death as the timeframe for the tribulation and armageddon style scenario. So unless the rapture has already taken place, I wouldnt be holding my breathe for it to happen anytime soon.

I don't think "most" scholars take an early date for Revelation. I believe that it's pretty much 50/50 for the late date-early date. I prefer the late dating [~AD95] because, quite simply, the mass devastation that takes place in the book never did in real life. Revelation doesn't really seem to indicate that there is a break between different parts. It seems that it was all part of one line. What I'm getting at is, if Revelation had already taken place, Jesus should be here. Or, if there was some time between the "tribulation" ending and Christ's return, there'd be an indication of this.

No, I was aking how do you know which books to believe?

I believe them all. Second Timothy 3.16:

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness...

It's all useful and profitable. If I didn't believe a part of the Bible was useful, I'd tear it out of my Bible.

Since they do not support each other in this rapture contraversy. This is somewhat rhetorical now that i know you are Christian.

I would contend that Enoch is an allusion to the rapture. Just as the Jewish Feasts are a foreshadowing of Christ's person and work. [In fact, everything Jewish points to Christ in someway!] Even if one rejects the Enochian example though, that's no cause for alarm. The Jews and the Church are two distinct entities of God's plan. There are some things that the Jews simply wouldn't have needed to know about.

If there is anything I should explain better, please let me know. It's late over here!

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