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BREAKING: Jordan Begins Revoking Palestinians' Citizenship

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posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Forget the past, it is irrelevant


Nobody sitting in a comfort zone should tell oppressed people how to live

it's easy for YOU to say forget the past

if the past is still hauting you today, and oppressing you today, forgetting it is next to impossible.

should we forget about the holocaust?
answer me
should we?




posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 




Go to youtube
there are even rabbis starting a movement against zionism
are they racists too?


I could find many people saying many things on YouTube, but I would hardly build my opinions around them.



you can find maps of palestine and palestine of today
and israel's colonization of a humongous portion of palestinian land
are you telling me that these maps are anti-semites?


I fail to see your meaning.. Semitic? .. The original Jews were Semitic, Palestinians are Semitic.. they are essentially one in the same. Israel took over the lands occupied by so called "Palestinians" .. though it should be noted no country called Palestine ever existed, the lands where actually taken from other Nations, such as Egypt and Syria.. By right of Conquest Israel holds the lands, as the World is established in International Anarchy, the rights of Conquest is the only law known to us.



No you are hiding behind the word jew
Not every jew is a zionist, and the rabbis that condemn these acts of barbarism are proof of that.


When Israelies invade Lebanon, or Gaza, or anywhere else, I fail to see why it is not said "Israelies did this.. they did that.. they killed so and so.."

Seeing as it is a COUNTRY and not a political movement initiating these actions, and Israel's army consist of more than just Jews..

However people would rather carry on about so called Zionist movements and Zionist take overs and Zionist running the World... Which was no different than Hitler declaring Jews controlling the economy and politics, or in America where we declare Jews control banking and Hollywood... different title, same old hate. So just say Israel.. or Israelis.. or Israeli sympathizers.. it makes much more sense to do so anyways.. unless there is another motive.



Even the VP Joe Biden said he is a zionist, it's on youtube check it He isn't jewish.... as far as I know. I'm not sure however.


Well that's ironic considering Zionism is a Conservative Jewish religious movement? Then again, I didn't have any respect for the President or the Vice Presidents intellect to begin with.



To say that zionism doesn't exist is to basically deny history


Movements are not entities, and entities are to blame for institutionalized destruction and suppression ..



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 




Zionism is real my friend and they are a collection of many different people with an agenda that has nothing to do with the religion of Judiasm.


Right. Just say what you mean, that's all I am saying.. you mean "Jew" .. you hide behind "Zionist" just like every other bigot who spouts on about the "Zionist" movement. Israel for the most part is a modern secular society.


You are an anti-Semite because of your hostility to the Semitic Palestinian people.

Not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews. Zionism is a political ideology that was invented in the late 19th century at the height of a colonialist Europe. Every group in Europe from the Dutch Afrikaner to the puritanical Protestant groups and royalty wanted to carve out a new country in Africa, Asia and South America. It was a fad!


A good example is King Leopold of Belgium who created his own and personal kingdom conveniently free of the rule of law.


The regime of Leopold's African colony, the Congo Free State, became one of the most infamous international scandals of the turn of the century. The famous 1904 report by the British Consul Roger Casement led to the arrest and punishment of white officials who had been responsible for cold-blooded mass killings during a rubber-collecting expedition in 1903 (including one Belgian national for causing the shooting of at least 122 Congolese people). Most sources on deaths in the Congo during the period of Leopold's control from 1885 to 1908 indicate they were around ten million. A similar regime was in place in the French Congo. Wikipaedia
en.wikipedia.org...


Inventor of zionism


Theodor Herzl (Hebrew: בנימין זאב הרצל‎, Binyamin Ze'ev Herzl, Hungarian; Herzl Tivadar) (May 2, 1860 — July 3, 1904) was an Austro-Hungarian journalist and the father of modern political Zionism.

As the Paris correspondent for Neue Freie Presse, Herzl followed the Dreyfus Affair, a notorious anti-Semitic incident in France in which a French Jewish army captain was falsely convicted of spying for Germany. He witnessed mass rallies in Paris following the Dreyfus trial where many chanted "Death to the Jews!" Herzl came to reject his early ideas regarding Jewish emancipation and assimilation, and to believe that the Jews must remove themselves from Europe and create their own state.[1]

en.wikipedia.org...


According to some, Zionism was a solution for the oppression of European Jews. It was not based in any theological imperatives but was a consequence of Jewish political consciousness that produced Jewish Nationalism. Before this, Jews considered themselves to be citizens of the country they had lived and existed.


In 1902–03 Herzl was invited to give evidence before the British Royal Commission on Alien Immigration. The appearance brought him into close contact with members of the British government, particularly with Joseph Chamberlain, then secretary of state for the colonies, through whom he negotiated with the Egyptian government for a charter for the settlement of the Jews in Al 'Arish, in the Sinai Peninsula, adjoining southern Palestine.

In 1903, Herzl attempted to obtain support for the Jewish homeland from Pope Pius X. Cardinal Rafael Merry del Val explained to him the Church's policy of non possumus on such matters, saying that as long as the Jews deny the divinity of Christ, the Church certainly could not make a declaration in their favor. [3]

On the failure of that scheme, which took him to Cairo, he received, through L. J. Greenberg, an offer (August 1903) on the part of the British government to facilitate a large Jewish settlement, with autonomous government and under British suzerainty, in British East Africa (British Somaliland). At the same time, the Zionist movement being threatened by the Russian government, he visited St. Petersburg and was received by Sergei Witte, then finance minister, and Viacheslav Plehve, minister of the interior, the latter of whom placed on record the attitude of his government toward the Zionist movement. On that occasion Herzl submitted proposals for the amelioration of the Jewish position in Russia. He published the Russian statement, and brought the British offer, commonly known as the "Uganda Project," before the Sixth Zionist Congress (Basel, August 1903), carrying the majority (295:178, 98 abstentions) with him on the question of investigating this offer, after the Russian delegation stormed out... Wikipaedia
en.wikipedia.org...


Basically, the Zionist movement was prepared to consider any European colonial territory for the founding of a Zionist state.

These colonial territories included;

Uganda
Parts of Egypt
British Somaliland
Madagascar


The formulae oriented around selecting a country under European occupation, the settlement of Europeans who happen to be Jewish, and rule over the inhabitants in place of the colonial masters.

It never occurred to the Zionist movement to ask the indigenous populations for their opinions.

Unfortunately for the Palestinians, the spin of the wheel landed on Palestine.

[edit on 023131p://pm3119 by masonwatcher]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 




Nobody sitting in a comfort zone should tell oppressed people how to live


I quite agree friend.. we are all arm chair quarterbacks so to speak. however the tables can be turned, no one sitting in a comfort zone can judge Israeli or Palestinian actions or sentiment?



if the past is still hauting you today, and oppressing you today, forgetting it is next to impossible.


Only when it's clung to.. I'm Irish, and I assume by your avatar, you're of Gypsy decent, both people were oppressed at one time, for a very long time, but if we hold on to the hate and the anger for generations were, as a people, does that leave us? This is the same for Israel and Palestine, both are guilty equally for so ignorantly clinging to past visionary images, which both are very skewed and biased. Palestinians want a land that never existed, they want the success of Israel.. and it would be one thing to demand citizenship to Israel, which they as conquered people deserve entirely, it is quite another to think you can send the entire Nation of Israel packing while you move in and take up their life of luxury.



should we forget about the holocaust?
answer me
should we?


We should never forget the inhumane crimes against man.. use it as a lesson to avoid the same mistakes.. however.. we should never cling to it.

Homosexuals
Catholics
Political Dissenters
POWs
Masons
Gypsies

These peoples were all persecuted, turned to slaves, and killed in concentration camps. Only one group.. the Jews.. seem to hold the rights tot he entire ordeal, even when by numerical standards they were only the largest single group, not as a whole.

If you think I am "Pro" Israeli "Anti" Palestinian you are very wrong.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
When Israelies invade Lebanon, or Gaza, or anywhere else, I fail to see why it is not said "Israelies did this.. they did that.. they killed so and so.."

Seeing as it is a COUNTRY and not a political movement initiating these actions, and Israel's army consist of more than just Jews..


I don't know how you been talking to
When I speak of current events I usually tend to be precise
sometimes I don't say Israel or zionists, sometimes I say Mossad, other times I say IDF, other times I say Israeli Govt.(never did I say Israel) and sometimes I say zionists.

You can check my post history if you like to confirm the above statement.

I understand what you are trying to say however I don't agree with the picture you are painting.

There may be some like that, but just because one person says zionists doesn't mean he always does. That's just generalizing.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


Thank you, I am well aware of the Zionist movement.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
I quite agree friend.. we are all arm chair quarterbacks so to speak. however the tables can be turned, no one sitting in a comfort zone can judge Israeli or Palestinian actions or sentiment?

I said we shouldn't tell oppressed people how to live.
And I never said gazans should do this or not.

Israel on the other hand, lol, is FARRRRRRRR from being oppressed.
I'm sure you are aware of the huge amounts of your taxpayer dollars that goes to them every year.


Originally posted by Rockpuck
and I assume by your avatar, you're of Gypsy decent,

Where did you get that?
That's the flag of India on my avatar
but it is abstract however, so hard to notice



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


I was not specifically pointing at you, but as a general notation.. the tendencies to say certain Jewish movements are to blame for political instability of a region, when often it has nothing to do with religion at all.. For instance, it's well known Israel has no need for the West Bank, if it were not for the Dead Sea.. and it's rivers that feed it.. while Israel controls the West Bank, it controls the water. Strategic, but completely secular as far as religion. Israel is a violent and oppressive Nation to those she has conquered, and for that she should be condemned. As a Nation. As a Government. Not as a certain Jewish sect within the system as a whole.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


I understand what you are saying
However I don't think anyone in this thread has anything against judaism

You know there's a bookstore near my workplace called Indigo
it's partly owned by Chapters

almost everyday there's people in front of the bookstore protesting, because apparently Indigo somehow supports the apartheid.
Then the jewish community comes in and protests against the protests.
Then it turns into something else.... of course

However the one's protesting the apartheid, most of them are very knowledgeable of the entire situation and aren't anti-jewish and many aren't even arab or even muslim. We have some americans driving all the way from Chicago or Boston or Maine, and we have some canadians as well. The truth is that there's more caucasians than anyone, suprisingly.

My only point is that it's not about judaism.. at all



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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Anybody that takes 'YouBoob" for anything but entertainment is not very credible. I could get a large following for making a 'Youboob' video stating that I am the original founder of and Supreme Comander of the Bulgoosian Valdemar and some idiot would believe it and take me as their savior. It has NO validity as fact!
Zindo



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by ZindoDoone
Anybody that takes 'YouBoob" for anything but entertainment is not very credible. I could get a large following for making a 'Youboob' video stating that I am the original founder of and Supreme Comander of the Bulgoosian Valdemar and some idiot would believe it and take me as their savior. It has NO validity as fact!
Zindo





What are on about mate?



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Sorry for diverting the thread into the typical Palestinian/Israeli argument


Back on topic... I wonder why Jordan says this:


Fearing that Israel is hatching a plan to declare Jordan the official Palestinian state, Jordanian officials have begun revoking Palestinians' citizenship en masse, stirring panic.


Why would Jordan (Also an American ally at that) think Israel has the authority or ability to declare them a Palestinian state? ..


The Jordanians have justified the latest measure by arguing that it's aimed at avoiding a situation in which the Palestinians would ever be prevented from returning to their original homes inside Israel.


.. And I couldn't help but notice the King of Jordan is whiter than I am haha.. so I went to his personal page (because all the hip cool Kings of the World have their own website)


His Majesty King Abdullah II Ibn Al Hussein is the 43rd generation direct descendant of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him).


Kinda reminds me of old European dynasties declaring themselves descendants of various Gods..

rawstory.com...

This story shows a little bit more details.

My bet is something a little more practical.. The Global Recession is hitting the ME very hard.. especially for a country like Jordan that produces little to no oil.. Looking at the past decade Jordan was propped up by international investments to build up a modern economy, not much unlike Israels.. Since the down turn they have been plagued by rising unemployment and decreased economic activity. Being a Kingdom the country exhausts resources "taking care" of people.. what better way to lighten the King's worries than to send a few hundred thousand people packing and out the door?



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 02:47 PM
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The palestinian people have a right to the place where they live and I respect their right to defend it. Who has a right to the disputed land? The people who stand their ground and defend it do. Theres no point arguing over spilled beans. Nobody has a right to the land, whoever stands their ground will be the ones to reside in the disputed area.

I am a euro-american and I reserve the right to defend the place I call home, whether or not the land has disputed over for centuries. It is still my home and I will defend it. I will not take resonsibility for what other people did a hundred years ago. I will take responsibility for my own actions and if somebody believes they have the right to take that away from me should definitely not expect me to back down from that fight. The palestinians have that right also. I say we stay out of it and let them fend for themselves, not try to exile them to someplace that is not their home where they are not wanted.

If Israel wants to have that land, let them try. I don't think any of us have the right to say who has a right to it and who doesn't, after all we don't live there. So the arguement is moot unless it serves as an agenda.

I do not blame the government of Jordan for rejecting them. At the current point in time it is Israels problem not Jordans. Israel does not have the right to send them wherever they so choose. If Israel wants the disputed land then they can go for it for all I am concerned but that doesn't mean that the governments of other nations should just bow to their will and take over Israels baggage. These are entire countries and economies we are talking about. The road to peace is not one that is solved by Israel doing whatever the hell it wants. That is the road to chaos.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck

The region being named Palestine originates from Emperor Hadrian loosing a war to the Jews, he returned home and under threat of death had every map maker change the name from Judea to Palestine.


I agree will your post except the part above. No Roman ever lost a war to the Jews. Maybe a battle here and there at the start of one of the Jewish rebellions, but never a war.

Now, who was it that the Romans were fighting with for control of this land 2,000 years ago - Palestinians? No, of course it was the Jews.

[edit on 7/21/2009 by centurion1211]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by sonjah1

Originally posted by Aeons
I love the "puppet" argument for countries that simply don't embrace being pig-ignorant tyrannies.


Um, well...

Your one-liner doesn't really substantiate much...could you elaborate on how Egypt and Jordan are *not* "puppet governments???


Have you stop beating your wife?

You cannot unprove a negative.

People suffer from the "center of the universe" syndrome. Only you actually believe that ONLY the USA is capable of extended action anywhere.

If Eygpt were a puppet, it would be MUCH better run than it is.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


I was replying to Modern for his reference to Youtube as his points on Judaism or anything else and how foolish it is to use it as a reference!

Zindo



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 



Have you stop beating your wife?

You cannot unprove a negative.

People suffer from the "center of the universe" syndrome. Only you actually believe that ONLY the USA is capable of extended action anywhere.

If Eygpt were a puppet, it would be MUCH better run than it is.


Someone's jumping to conclusions, LOL...I am a woman...so have I stopped beating my husband? Absolutely not...LOL

I'll give you the "you cannot unprove a negative," but certainly you could supply some reasons as to why you think Egypt/Jordan aren't "puppet" governments...not asking for *solid proof,* just examples that demonstrate that they have not been receiving funds from the West, or should I re-word, how are they more politically/economically stable than comparable counter-parts?

I never implied that ONLY the US is capable of extended action anywhere, I also included the UK. And as matter of fact, I will also include Western allies such as Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, and al arabiyah saudia here as others in the mix of things.

Maybe you have a different definition of "puppet" than do I...to the West, IMO, a "puppet" is one who stabilizes affairs based on Western contigencies in comparison to other relevant governments.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by sonjah1]

[edit on 21-7-2009 by sonjah1]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 



My bet is something a little more practical.. The Global Recession is hitting the ME very hard.. especially for a country like Jordan that produces little to no oil.. Looking at the past decade Jordan was propped up by international investments to build up a modern economy, not much unlike Israels.. Since the down turn they have been plagued by rising unemployment and decreased economic activity. Being a Kingdom the country exhausts resources "taking care" of people.. what better way to lighten the King's worries than to send a few hundred thousand people packing and out the door?


Agreed!
This is why I contend that Jordan is a "puppet" economically, and politically for the West.

The West has supported them economically at great lengths...up until the meltdown. However, I think that if GWB were still in power, they would be too scared to pull such a bold move....



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


HAHa... right you are.. right you are.. Rome technically won the war..


Roman losses were very heavy, and it is believed that an entire legion, the XXII Deiotariana was destroyed.[46] Indeed, Roman losses were so heavy that Hadrian's report to the Roman Senate omitted the customary salutation "I and the legions are well".[47] However, Hadrian's army eventually put down the rebellion in 135, after three years of fighting. According to Cassius Dio, during the war 580,000 Jews were killed, 50 fortified towns and 985 villages razed. The final battle took place in Beitar, a fortified city 10 km. southwest of Jerusalem. The city only fell after a lengthy siege, and Hadrian did not allow the Jews to bury their dead.


However, the war made poor Hadrian a very bitter person, and on his return from Judea he stripped the name from the maps, renaming is Palestine.
Considering the time period, 580k people is an astronomically huge number.. of course, it's always hard to tell such details when looking into the past. One thing is certain, Hadrian hence forth persecuted the Jews every chance he got till his dieing day. Loosing an entire legion would do that to you.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Actually i'm pretty sure it had to do with the phillistines!



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