reply to post by monkcaw
Try to find that book "The Continuum Concept"
. What you will find there : children (people in general) are not inherently flawed,
evil greedy, stupid and so on. They are not "antisocial" and in need of an "education". The author of the book spent a few years with the Yequana
from Venezuela. Children there are never beaten or yelled at. The same was true for any other children living in tribes.
How do they become good members of the tribe ? Independent and free humans ? Why don't they become spoiled and unable to do anything by themselves ?
Amazing isn't it ?
Because people are not by their nature "antisocial". They are social beings. When young they need to be accepted unconditionally by those around.
Only then they can go around exploring and gain self trust, then because they are social beings they like to be with the tribe and do what everybody
does. (that does not mean they are not independent)
Our "continuum" is broken trough "education". We learn that we are "evil" and need "molding". There is nothing wrong with learning new things.
But "formal education", same as "formal religion" is evil. It teaches people to "think with their heads". You can learn all you want and still
be a part of the universe, not an outsider trying to "control" it :
Some captured settlers found what they were looking for (unconsciously) and they never wanted to return :
"Observing a prisoner exchange between the Iroquois and the French in upper New York in 1699, Cadwallader Colden is blunt: “ notwithstanding the
French Commissioners took all the Pains possible to carry Home the French, that were Prisoners with the Five Nations, and they had full Liberty from
the Indians, few of them could be persuaded to return. “Nor, he has to admit, is this merely a reflection on the quality of French colonial life,
“for the English had as much Difficulty” in persuading their redeemed to come home, despite what Colden would claim were the obvious superiority
of English ways:
No Arguments, no Intreaties, nor Tears of their Friends and Relations, could persuade many of them to leave their new Indian Friends and
Acquaintance; several of them that were by the Caressings of their Relations persuaded to come Home, in a little Time grew tired of our Manner of
living, and run away again to the Indians, and ended their Days with them.
On the other Hand, Indian Children have been carefully educated among
the English, cloathed and taught, yet, I think, there is not one Instance, that any of these, after they had Liberty to go among their own People, and
were come to Age, would remain with the English, but returned to their own Nations, and became as fond of the Indian Manner of Life as those that knew
nothing of a civilized Manner of Living. And, he concludes, what he says of this particular prisoner exchange “has been found true on many other
Benjamin Franklin was even more pointed: When an Indian child is raised in white civilization, he remarks, the civilizing somehow does not stick,
and at the first opportunity he will go back to his red relations, from whence there is no hope whatever of redeeming him. But when white persons of
either sex have been taken prisoners young by the Indians, and have lived a while among them, tho’ ransomed by their Friends, and treated with all
imaginable tenderness toprevail with them to stay among the English, yet in a Short time they become disgusted with our manner of life, and the care
and pains that are necessary to support it, and take the firstgood Opportunity of escaping again into the Woods, from whence there is no reclaiming
There was always the great woods, and the life to be lived within it was, Crevecoeur admits, “singularly captivating,” perhaps even superior to
that so boasted of by the transplanted Europeans. For, as many knew to their rueful amazement, “thousands of Europeans are Indians, and we have no
examples of even one of those aborigines having from choice become Europeans!”
Howard Zinn - A People's History of the United
"When confronted with the awesome power of civilization whose first representatives are parents, teachers, priests (and, later on, police officers,
legislators and bosses) the child faces, psychologically, the same situation as its tribal ancestors, namely, conform to the dictates of civilization
or die. The helplessness of childhood makes the threat of bodily harm or loss of love, which is used by the parents and others to enforce civilized
morality and civilized education, a traumatic experience. The developing little person becomes afraid to express its own tribal nature. There is much
fear that lies at the bottom of becoming a civilized adult. "
The Machine in our Heads--Glenn Parton
"All the causes of boredom are permutations of the interior wound of separation. Aside from the impoverishment of our reality, we are uncomfortable
doing nothing because of the relentless anxiety that dominates modern life. This in turn arises from the paradigm of competition that underlies our
socioeconomic structures, which (as I will explain in Chapter Four) is written into our conception of self. Second, we desire constant stimulation and
entertainment because in their absence, we are left alone with ourselves with nothing to distract us from the pain of the wound of separation.
Finally, technology contributes directly to boredom by bombarding us with a constant barrage of intense stimuli, habituating our brains to a high
level of stimulation. When it is removed, we suffer withdrawal. We are addicted to the artificial human realm we have created with technology. Now we
are condemned to maintain it."
From Separation to Boredom - Ascent of Humanity
"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and
feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us,
restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by
widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. "
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. "
Some quotes from native Americans (site with music) ,and thanks for all the flags
[edit on 22-7-2009 by pai mei]