ATF to Montana: 'You will respect our authoritah!'

Originally posted by daddyroo45
According to the ATF, Federal law and regulation supercede State law.
The ATF has jurisdiction over the inter-state commerce of firearms. They do not have jurisdiction under federal law to dictate to the states what they can do within the state boundaries. A firearm manufactured within the State and sold to a resident of the state DOES NOT fall under inter-state commerce laws!!
The ATF is trying to throw weight around that they do not legally have!!
I suppose we'll see these cases in front of the SCOTUS.

Watch for all the precedents set by the IRS.... they will use those to send their 'law enforcement' into states without even notifying the State government (unless, of course, they're a 'political ally' of the federal government).

Truth is, the ATF's politically appointed leadership and their gaggle of attorneys can connive all the approaches they wish, in the end the individual State rights to govern it's citizens must trump any Federal domination.... or this won't be America anymore - the power of this nation must come from the bottom up.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Maxmars]

reply to post by TheAssociate


If you notice, the letter the ATF sent out about the Tennessee law,it was sent to people with Federal Firearm licenses. Not a direct letter to the State Legislature or the Governor.

Originally posted by titorite
Well you folks should all know by now that Federal rights trump state rights. A whole war was fought over that nasty little bit of ugliness in the 1800s and the states lost and the Fed won. States rights are secondary to Fed Authority and the constitution?

This is only true as far as the Constitution and Bill of Rights spell it out. There is no automatic "trumping" of any other state's rights by the feds, although that's what has been happening and the reason behind all this 10th amendment controversy. That makes your comments moot.

reply to post by daddyroo45

If you notice, the letter the ATF sent out about the Tennessee law,it was sent to people with Federal Firearm licenses. Not a direct letter to the State Legislature or the Governor.

True, they haven't gathered the testicular fortitude to send a letter of this type to the states' politicians. They're just beating around the bush, trying to intimidate gun shop owners to comply. But just give them time...


TA

reply to post by TheAssociate


Uh-oh. Messing with States rights, especially when it comes to guns, is not a smart idea, the Federal government better watch where they tread or we'll have a civil war repeat. Few people realize that the civil war was more about states rights versus federal power than about slavery or the states versus other states. We tend to get taught that it was a battle between the North and the South when really it was more a battle between the Southern states and the Federal government Few people also realize that before the Southern Secession Lincoln had no plans to alter slavery in the states that supported it, he was a staunch supporter of State's rights to decide for themselves on the matter until the secession, which he viewed as uncalled for, changed his mind.

Anyway the ATF had better watch it, states have been declaring sovereignty lately and while that is mainly a symbolic gesture, at this time, if the Federal government continues to abuse the states it may turn into real secession.

reply to post by Maxmars

in the end the individual State rights to govern it's citizens must trump any Federal domination.... or this won't be America anymore - the power of this nation must come from the bottom up.

Eloquently stated as always, Max. States' rights absolutely must be defended, tooth-and-nail. Without state sovereignty there can be no individual sovereignty, we would all be subjects of the federal government.



reply to post by Titen-Sxull

Anyway the ATF had better watch it, states have been declaring sovereignty lately and while that is mainly a symbolic gesture, at this time, if the Federal government continues to abuse the states it may turn into real secession.

It is beginning to look like a real possibility. People, and particularly Americans, will only take so much until they rebel. This country was founded on treason: The Founding Fathers were committing treason by signing the Declaration of Independence, and the federal government would do well to remember that because a good many of us wouldn't hesitate to do it again.


TA

edit: thank you all for the replies, insight, stars and flags.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by TheAssociate]

i agree with you all 100 percent!!but what do you do if your state is worse than the feds.i live in ny and i have to tell you our politicans are a joke. they sit in albany(when we can get them there)and fight like little kids. im serious! if i knew how to put a news link up i would.we have huge taxes on just about everything. they were even going to tax soda?!!i believe in states rights but when the state is this dysfunctional i think it should be taken over by the federal gov.

The government needs to realize the very real threat of the walking undead.

What do they expect people to fight zombies with baseball bats and shovels?

You need something ranged, as their bite can infect you, making melee with them very dangerous.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
reply to post by TheAssociate

 

How about the state reassure the dealers that state law (in their eyes) trumps federal and THEN stand up for the little guy by arresting and prosecuting any federal officers that try to infringe upon state rights. Alas, the federal government will rule that roost.

AggieMan, I think this was exactly the intention of enacting this legislation preemptively! The states that had the foresight to put laws on the books asserting their sovereign authority.

I don't have any references handy, but NM, AR, TX at least have passed legislation, and I think it was NM that threatened to arrest any Federal Agents asserting Federal Law within their state!

I think it is all posturing right now, so I hope the state governments stick to their guns (pun)! If they are assertive and direct, it could keep this from becoming a revolution or civil war, but if the state gov't back off their position, us Patriots will have to fight for our own rights, and that will likely become violent!

Originally posted by notsoobvious
i agree with you all 100 percent!!but what do you do if your state is worse than the feds.i live in ny and i have to tell you our politicans are a joke. they sit in albany(when we can get them there)and fight like little kids. im serious! if i knew how to put a news link up i would.we have huge taxes on just about everything. they were even going to tax soda?!!i believe in states rights but when the state is this dysfunctional i think it should be taken over by the federal gov.

If you are in NY, Cali, or D.C., the only appropriate action is to MOVE!

I really doubt any of us rednecks will come to your defense in those areas. They are seen as the root of the problem.

In case of a war with a foreign enemy, you guys are like a big bull's eye! In case of a war within our country, you guys are seen as the root of the problem, so you will be left to fend for yourselves!

No offense, I have some good friends in Cali, and I love visiting NY, but it is what it is! Trust your instincts! If you are feeling hopeless, or trapped, or helpless, move to the Midwest, South, or TX. You will feel instantly empowered, and you will be surrounded by like minds!

Originally posted by TheAssociate

ATF to Montana: 'You will respect our authoritah!'

www.examiner.com

On Friday, we saw the letter ATF sent to FFL dealers in Tennessee telling them the Bureau was overriding the state's Firearms Freedom Act, and would continue to impose federal requirements in disregard of state law.

They've done the same thing to Montanans.

(visit the link for the full news article)

America is armed to the teeth

Im seeing groups like this pop up all the time

[edit on 21-7-2009 by Spartak_FL]

The ATF is just a bunch of JBT's.

The good people of the sovereign states of Montana and Tennessee need to work together with their Sheriffs and identify the ATF agents and toss them all out of their states.

Any ATF agents trying to enforce unconstitutional laws should be arrested and thrown in the county jails.

The ATF justifies its existence by creating crimes where there are none and then egregiously enforcing them.

Thinking that the good people of MT or TN will bow to federal "authority" is rather laughable and the ATF would do well to consider the outcome and consequences of tyrannical acts against their employers, "We the People", before they commit them.

The irony that we pay for our own oppression at the hands of the JBT's at the ATF with out own tax dollars...

When it comes to states with an actual, functional set of cajones... The Feds have GOT to be a little nervous!

If secession/civil war were to occur, (This one's for you, Zosynspiracy)... Like minds from across the country will likely grab their guns and go to those states to fight the federal government!

I only wish that the cesspool of a corrupt state I live in had a pair...

Go ahead and seceed TN and MT... The patriots of this great Republic are surely covering your flanks!

and so it starts. I was wondeing how long before this came about.

But not to worry our gov has fought many battles over diffrent things and won so far.. sure he is not perfect, but the important things he goes after.. lets hope he follows through with this one as well.

They tryed to push the drivers license on us last year, that flew over like a ton of bricks.. he flat out told the feds we were not going to do it..

as far as states needing cash, we are still in the green, one of the few states that are.. not sure how long that will last, but could work to our advantage.
Should be very interesting to see the outcome of this battle..

The "open letter" is to FFL's in the state not to the state itself or the state legislature or the governor. Looks like the ATF is banking on the fact that the FFL's themselves dont want to lose their licenses or be tossed in jail.

The ATF would have a hard time bullying an entire state but a handful of businessmen are an easy target.

What should happen now is for MT to tell the FFL's it will defend them and to tell the ATF to f off. By "defend" them I dont mean MT will send some lawyers in post arrest. I mean MT should station troops/police/militia to prevent the ATF from getting anywhere near the FFL's.

I doubt the militias will pay any attention to this
the federal gov has increasingly shown that it only cares about its own interests rather than those of the people it is supposed to govern

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

The "open letter" is to FFL's in the state not to the state itself or the state legislature or the governor. Looks like the ATF is banking on the fact that the FFL's themselves dont want to lose their licenses or be tossed in jail.

Still a risky proposition for the ATF. Most FFL are patriotic and well armed! They are typically connected to various groups that the ATF doesn't like. The first one will probably be a martyr; they will have no warning or back-up, but the second FFL they encounter will be an entirely different story!

As other posters have stated, if the FFL is not shipping guns interstate, or modifying guns illegally, the ATF has no legal leg to stand on!

I think the writing is on the wall. I feel for the victim of that first encounter, but I have great anticipation for all headaches for the ATF and Federal Govt that will quickly follow!

Wont be too long before all the people of the US understands that any use of the word "Federal" in a name is in fact enemy. haha gotta feel sorry for Federal Express when the lynch mobs start.

Originally posted by mapper
Wont be too long before all the people of the US understands that any use of the word "Federal" in a name is in fact enemy. haha gotta feel sorry for Federal Express when the lynch mobs start.

Maybe that Negative Connotation is why they switched to FedEx.

Being associated with our fascist government may have been hurting their bottom line!

how does requiring gun makers to have licences and to put a serial number on the guns they make, infringe on the second amendment? if this was not done, you could have anyone with a little money, manufacture and distribute guns. maybe if black, mexican, chinese, or muslim gangs were in montana manufacturing guns, with no oversight, people might think differently.