Obamagate Begins

reply to post by imsuchaniceguy


the evidence in a pennysaver which is what the honolulu advertiser sounds like is hardly rock solid. they didn't know they were raising a president but stanley's parents might have been embarrassed that she got knocked up at 17 by an african who was in town going to school and put that notice in to lend some legitimacy to the situation for themselves an their daughter. there are records that she immediately went to seattle and attended school there with her infant. the courts are the place to present this info because they specialize in the kind of hair splitting necessary to determine what happened. at least that's what they are supposed to do. i guess lots of times they don't and other times they ignore things. to get back to the pennysavers, they were free newspapers full of grocery and other local ads dropped at every house. they weren't exactly investigative journalists. they'd have annoucements of this and that. i bet they would print anything that was sent in. not because they were dishonest but because it was just a local thing. i can't imagine anybody checking up on a birth announcement. what about he people who lived next door to the address who don't remember them? what about no doctor will admit to delivering him? no hospital will admit to ever having stanley dunham or obama as a patient? there is plenty of evidence to look at, if a person wanted to.

reply to post by WhatTheory


No, it doesn't.

You're taking a conservatives side that the definition of a natural born citizen is that both parents have to be American citizens for him to be an American citizen, which it doesn't. The Founding Fathers were never clear on what being a "natural born citizen" meant.

On the contrary, the Constitution does say this, in Amendment 14, Article 1, Section 1:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

It doesn't matter if his father is not a US citizen. Just by his being born on US soil means he is a citizen of the United States.

reply to post by earlywatcher


Are you serious? Who cares if a pennysaver is not investigative journel. Do you really think that they would put that announcement in there while she was in kenya giving birth? You ramble on and say very very little. Like I said, there is more evidence that shows he was born in Hawaii than kenya. So why are you people obsessed with this? Cannot stand a liberal or a black man in the white house? This is a democracy and that is how it works. You lost. Deal with it.

Show me all the evidence that he was born in Kenya so I can bury under the evidence he was born in Hawaii. Or....you could all quite your whining. Where the hell were you all when the Diebold voting machines were found to be faulty and G.W. was never legitimately elected. He stole both of them and you all did not say a peep. Why so vociferous now? Is it skin color or party affiliation?

I say well done to President Obama for not showing weakness in front of what are truly ludicrous claims. If he wasn't born in Hawaii don't you think someone would of pulled him up on it before he was nominated? or maybe before he was a senator? If anything I would like to see someone take a serious look at where these claims started from, talk about sowing the seeds of doubt! OK his dad is Kenyan, his mom is American, he is almost an immigrant but not quite because he was born in Hawaii which is not in the continental United States but is a state none the less therefore he meets the requirement of birth to be President of the United States. I wonder if he was White and his name was John Smith or Robert Jones but born in Hawaii with 2 white parents one of them not an American, would the same questions still be being asked? Yes I do think these attacks on him are racially motivated and unfortunately are showing the true colours (pun intended) of some Americans and those that join the feeding frenzy are libel to get tarred with the same brush.
He is the first President in a long time to get real respect from foreign leaders and to get people around the globe excited about America becoming a positive force in the world again, who became president on a platform for change and IS changing America and undoing the some of harm caused by the last occupier of his office (who will go down in history as the worst President ever), He has inherited a bad situation and is making good progress, give him a chance and we all will reap the benefits.

Originally posted by earlywatcher
reply to post by imsuchaniceguy

 

the evidence in a pennysaver which is what the honolulu advertiser sounds like is hardly rock solid.

Just checked - it's a regular newspaper. There's this thing called the internet, see, and a thing called a "search engine" named Google. You punch in whatever you're looking for, and in seconds you've got a bunch of links taking you to information about it. You might try it, it's amazing what you can learn.

they didn't know they were raising a president but stanley's parents might have been embarrassed that she got knocked up at 17 by an african who was in town going to school and

They might have this and possibly that and maybe other and could have something else and blah blah blah.

This isn't about whatever you want to speculate about, it's about what is.

reply to post by jimmyx


You suggest I'm a communist, Hezbollah, or Islamic terrorist? You suggest I don't sound like an American?

Let me inform you, you simple-minded silly so-and-so.

I have spilled my blood fighting underneath that American flag, I carry the scars from those wounds from throat to shin, and I've caused my country's enemies to spill all their blood, and lots of their guts. I never killed them just once, either.

And I didn't do it so some shady, bastard son of some foreigner and tramp can defy that very Constitution I took an oath to defend.

Against ALL enemies.

Foreign.

AND domestic.

I'm not the one committing treason, and likely fraud.

One little event. That's all it takes to tip it over. WWI was caused by one little, isolated incident that wasn't done by Germany, Britain, France, or the US, but look what happened.

And if you can't see which way the wind is blowing, you're about as aware of your surroundings as a fence post. Young people are angry. Old people are angry. Lots of gun-owning, God-fearing, church attending moderates are about fed up with having to support all the parasites they're having to carry.

I used to be an unaware dummy too, but hell, I was four years old!

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by dooper
Anything happens to Obama, and I mean ANYTHING, the proverbial dookey is going to hit the fan across this nation.

Could be the event that kicks off another Civil War, again, by a significant portion of the population to throw off a dominating, controlling Federal Government.

This guy Obama is a complete disaster for the US. If it was determined that he was in fact a KGB plant - put here to destroy the economic system - and thus the US - I would not be surprised one bit.

Look at what he's done to date.

SOMEBODY better be having a closer look.

This guy don't smell right.

are you a chinese communist? or hezbollah, islamic terrorist. you don't sound like you're an american...sounds like your trying to overthrow the government.

jim x, It really seems IMO that you're really "casting about" there in your questioning of dooper's motives in saying what he just said.

If you take the time to research dooper's past posts, the one distinctive pattern that is GLARINGLY apparent to anyone who can READ is that "ole doop" is a person who loves this country greatly and has nothing but the best intentions when he points out his personal observations of the current administration's inept, consistent, bumbling.

Would you care to describe in detail the ways in which this administration is contributing to the strengthening of America???

I would really be fascinated for someone to lay down those verifiable FACTS!

Dooper and a multitude of other brave men and women have fought(many paying the ULTIMATE PRICE) so that we can sit here and debate topics such as this with out fear of jackbooted thugs kicking our doors in and hauling us off for being "subversives" merely for discussing such a thing.

I'm not saying that I believe you should not engage in a "lively debate" here but it would really behoove you to at least make a cursory attempt to show a measure of respect...

Originally posted by Mak Manto
No, it doesn't.

yes it does.

You're taking a conservatives side that the definition of a natural born citizen is that both parents have to be American citizens for him to be an American citizen, which it doesn't. The Founding Fathers were never clear on what being a "natural born citizen" meant.

Granted they were not crystal clear but there can be only two possible definitions if you read all the other documents and letter from our founding fathers. First, in order to be a natural born citizen both parents must be a U.S. citizen or secondly, the father must be a U.S. citizen. In either case, Obama does NOT qualify.

Did you even read the link I provided? I doubt it judging by your response.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

I think you are confusing naturalized and natural born citizen. They are two different things.

It doesn't matter if his father is not a US citizen. Just by his being born on US soil means he is a citizen of the United States.

*SIGH* Are you paying attention?
We are NOT talking about whether Obama is a U.S. citizen or not.
Of course he is a citizen. Geesh! That is NOT in question.
Just being a citizen does NOT mean you are a natural born citizen and you must be a natural born citizen in order to be President.

Sorry, WhatTheory, but you're wrong.

Even you said yourself:

Granted they were not crystal clear but there can be only two possible definitions if you read all the other documents and letter from our founding fathers.

So, what, are you going to now put in your own definition of what it means when the Founding Fathers didn't? You don't want Obama as President, so it now means that both parents have to be American citizens?

That's not what it means. There is no clear meaning to it. You can't change the definition to how you want it.

Quite arrogant, wouldn't you say?

Originally posted by Mak Manto
That's not what it means. There is no clear meaning to it. You can't change the definition to how you want it.

Look, I'm done with you because YOU are obviously NOT reading any of the links I provided nor comprehending what you are reading in these posts because I gave you proof and countered all your argument with actual links and proof.

All you do is state your opinion with nothing to back up your flawed claim. Keep your head in the ground, it's safer there.

Quite arrogant, wouldn't you say?

Yes, you are. Nice of you to admit it. Especially since you don't read anything. Perhaps you have reading comprehension problems.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
*SIGH* Are you paying attention?
We are NOT talking about whether Obama is a U.S. citizen or not.

Of course he is a citizen. Geesh! That is NOT in question.
Just being a citizen does NOT mean you are a natural born citizen and you must be a natural born citizen in order to be President.

You really need to do some reading. I like that you went back to the founding fathers but unfortunately, things change. Laws are made and reversed. Ammendments are added. It is crystal clear that he was born in Hawaii and even if he was not, only one parent needs to be a U.S. citizen.

Please look this stuff up before you say any more ignorant nonsense.

Whoever is giving you stars is pretty ignorant too only they don't have the nerve to stand up and say stupid things for us all to read. Good for you. You are wearing big boy pants now. Too bad you got it wrong; again.

reply to post by dooper


Wow, you have a big mouth that says nothing. I am reading all these posts that continue to insist it is absoloutely true that he was born in Kenya. Sigh. Do any of you have any proof? There is lots of proof that he was born in Hawaii.

I have asked twice now and I am still waiting for the proof he was born in Kenya. Anyone, anyone?

Originally posted by imsuchaniceguy
You really need to do some reading.

Sorry, but you need to do some comprehending.

I like that you went back to the founding fathers

Who cares what you like.

unfortunately, things change. Laws are made and reversed. Ammendments are added.

To bad nothing has changed regarding this issue.

only one parent needs to be a U.S. citizen.

Just because you say it does not make it true. I have proven my case with links showing how wrong you are yet all you can do is spew your opinion with no proof.

It takes both parents to be citizens in order for the child to be a natural born citizen. Congress and the courts have ruled this way so you are 100% WRONG!

Please look this stuff up before you say any more ignorant nonsense.

Oh, the irony and hypocrisy.

Whoever is giving you stars is pretty ignorant too

Or the more likely scenario is that you are wrong.

Good for you. You are wearing big boy pants now.

Guess that is better than wearing diapers like yourself.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by imsuchaniceguy
You really need to do some reading.

Sorry, but you need to do some comprehending.

I like that you went back to the founding fathers

Who cares what you like.

blah blah blah blah.

Good for you. You are wearing big boy pants now.

Guess that is better than wearing diapers like yourself.

So you have to resport to being rude right from the start? That makes you seem intelligent and clearly proves your point

You say the law has not changed and that Obama was born outside the U.S. Didn't I ask for some proof he was born anywhere but Hawaii? All you can do is repeat yourself and resort to insults.

Let me show you how the law has changed.

The requirements for citizenship, and its very definition in American statute law, have changed since the Constitution was ratified in 1788.

The law governing the citizenship of children born outside the U.S. to one or more U.S.-citizen parents has varied considerably over time.

More than two dozen proposed constitutional amendments have been introduced in Congress to relax the restriction.[48]

Two of the more well known were introduced by Representative Jonathan Bingham in 1974, to allow for Secretary of State Henry Kissinger to become eligible,[49] and the Equal Opportunity to Govern Amendment by Senator Orrin Hatch in 2003, to allow eligibility for Governor of California Arnold Schwarzenegger.[48] The Bingham amendment would have also made clear the eligibility of those born abroad to U.S. parents,[49] while the Hatch one would have allowed those who have been naturalized citizens for twenty years to be eligible.[48]

Source

I did all of that without resorting to insults. Can you do the same now. Present the proof of your case. I am all ears now and being polite. Let's see what you can do. I said the law has been changed right? You said I was wrong, right? Prove it.


p.s. just because you do not care what I like, even though it was giving you credit and compliment you apparently did not understand and do not deserve, does not mean that no one does. You ask who well stop by, I will be happy to show you who cares what I like. It is kind of sad that I opened with a compliment and you do not even get it. Thank you for really puting your ignorance out there for us all to see.

Got that proof yet?

[edit on 24-7-2009 by imsuchaniceguy]

reply to post by imsuchaniceguy


The problem is, that many people much more clever than you - imagine that - have looked at the inconsistencies in Obama's background.

His passport situation isn't possible for a US citizen when he traveled to Pakistan.

His college applications suggest he was a foreign student.

His family members and others clearly stated that he was BORN in Kenya.

The dates on everything don't match up, and then you have his own misstatements.

Everything about Obama is secret. Everything. It's locked down tighter than Dick's hatband.

Now allegations of multiple Social Security Numbers.

This guy smells to high heaven.

I know he's your hero, but I like mine with some history and track record.

Not a black hole of background information.

Ahh, don't worry, man.

WhatTheory said it himself that the Founding Fathers never made a clear definition of it, but because he's linking to conservative blogs that don't like Obama and want him to not be the president, that they know what the Founding Fathers really meant, EVEN THOUGH they didn't give the definition, he thinks he's proved the point.

Lol.

reply to post by Mak Manto

What a lot of these dumbasses don't realize, and I'm tired of pointing out things they SHOULD know, instead of learning by rote and repeating the same is that in fact, the Constitution specifically states in Article I, Section 8, that Vattel's LAW OF NATIONS constitutes the best definition of a natural born citizen, and specifically states that both parents must be citizens to confer NATURAL BORN CITIZENSHIP to their offspring.

This definition was contemporaneous with the formation and adoption of the US Constitution.

That would exclude Obama.

His mother did not have the legal ability to confer NATURAL BORN CITIZENSHIP upon Obama, as his father was not a citizen of the US.

The purpose of this rule is quite simple. No possibility of any inbred allegiance to any foreign nation.

'Cause this guy sure as hell isn't helping or working FOR the United States. Another year or so of this disaster that is Obama, and the US is irrevocably down the toilet.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by imsuchaniceguy

 

The problem is, that many people much more clever than you - imagine that - have looked at the inconsistencies in Obama's background.

Actually, the problem is that many people much more clever than you, have looked at his background and decided he is a natural born citizen. They determined he is eligable to be president. That is why he is the president. You do know that he is president right? You have the electoral college as well as everyone who ran against him. They are all more clever than you and none of them are questioning it. So what does that tell you?

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Mak Manto

 

What a lot of these dumbasses don't realize,

How many times do I need to ask for any proof or even evidence that he was born anywhere but Hawaii??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

reply to post by imsuchaniceguy


Whether he is legally eligible or not remains to be seen.

And never assume he's MY President.

The last time I smelled anything as bad as his background, it was on the bottom of my shoe.

For whatever reason, dog owners can't stay home and let their dogs crap up their own yards . . .