Originally posted by ANNED
I believe wreaked Chinese and Japanese ships with crew drifted across the pacific in the The North Pacific Current (sometimes referred to as the North Pacific Drift and landed on the west coast of Canada and the US.
en.wikipedia.org...
These ships would have been small and few would have survived the trip.
most that did would have repaired there ships and tried to return and even fewer would have survived.
Originally posted by punkinworks
Originally posted by ANNED
I believe wreaked Chinese and Japanese ships with crew drifted across the pacific in the The North Pacific Current (sometimes referred to as the North Pacific Drift and landed on the west coast of Canada and the US.
en.wikipedia.org...
These ships would have been small and few would have survived the trip.
most that did would have repaired there ships and tried to return and even fewer would have survived.
With out a doubt it happened ...
In 1933, archaeologist José García Payón discovered a small head with "foreign" features in a burial at Calixtlahuaca, in the Toluca Valley about 60 km. west of Mexico City. The burial was under two undisturbed cemented floors that antedated the destruction of Calixtlahuaca by the Aztecs in AD 1510. Numerous cultural pieces found with the head were identified by García Payón as belonging to the Azteco-Matlatzinca period of 1476-1510. Cortez did not land at Veracruz until 1519, and did not conquer the Aztecs until 1521, so that central Mexico was still pre-Hispanic in 1510.
To this time, the lack of a trustworthy date of the finding has not permitted the establishment of a correct hypothesis about the head's chronology and origin. In a letter dated March 17, 1993, Dr. R. E. M. Hedges of the Research Laboratory for Archaeology and History of Art at Oxford University informed me that, if we would send him the piece to take a sample, we would have the dating in about six months, either by thermoluminescence or C 14 in a mass accelerator. Some administrative problems have delayed this matter longer than we expected and we do not know when it will take place. Nevertheless, without trying to impose a definitive opinion, we would like to point out that with its relative chronology and some stylistic features, the little head could be related to a very probable arrival of Vikings to Mesoamerica, not to that of the Chinese or Hindus. It is well known that in this area very significant political-cultural perturbations occurred among the autochthonous civilizations between the 10th and 13th centuries AD. These were produced by a small group of white immigrants with beards who came from the Atlantic Ocean and whose leader the natives called by different names: Ce Acatl, Topiltzin, Papa, etc.Or at least such happenings are suggested through several native Indian legends and myths from the area included between the Central Mexican Plateau and the Yucatan Peninsula. (See, for example, Duran, 1984:9-15; Las Casas, 1967: 644-645 and 648-649; Torquemada, 1943:254-256, among others.) As indirect testimony to the historicity of these legends, we can also point to certain Mayan ceramic pieces from the same period (10th-13th centuries AD) that bear representations of characters with European features and beards. Fray Juan de Torquemada (1943:243) was the first to suppose that the immigrants were Vikings. Furthermore, according to data offered by mediaeval sagas from Iceland and Greenland, the voyage of Leif Eiriksson to Newfoundland was not the only visit the Vikings made to America. Between the 10th and 13th centuries AD several similar voyages were made, some to the south of the American continent's Atlantic coast (Ingstad, H., 1968:91-95). These historical testimonies are supported by a series of findings of Viking origin (axes, spades, arrow heads, among others), coming from the East and Midwest of the United States. (A summary about these findings can be found in Godfrey, 1955. )
Considering the stylistic aspects of the little head, I would like to point out that the cap worn by the character can hardly be described as "Roman." In my opinion, such a cap looks more like a certain type represented in several Viking art works: for example, bas-reliefs on the monumental stone of Stora Hammar, Labro (Gotland) (1lth century AD), with scenes of the heroic poem known as the Icelandic skald Bragai's Regnarsdrapa.
In summary, I would like to remind you again that the piece in question is the only archaeological find of nonAmerindian origin discovered in Mesoamerica today, by a professional archaeologist and in a non-altered context of the pre-Hispanic era. Consequently, I believe that a detailed and critical study, based on the precise dating of the little head (which I hope will be available before too long) will give us new relevant data in research of transatlantic contacts before 1492.
Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
Could and did in historic times the problem is did it happen in the times before? It may have and depending on where they landed it would have meant death or acceptance. As far as we know no one made it back before historic times.
The story has some unproven items stated as fact but the information on the drifters is generally correct AFAIK
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Considering the stylistic aspects of the little head, I would like to point out that the cap worn by the character can hardly be described as "Roman." In my opinion, such a cap looks more like a certain type represented in several Viking art works: for example, bas-reliefs on the monumental stone of Stora Hammar, Labro (Gotland) (1lth century AD), with scenes of the heroic poem known as the Icelandic skald Bragai's Regnarsdrapa.
