It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Obama's Birth Certificate... How to solve the problem?

page: 1
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 03:28 AM
link   
Note: This might be in the wrong place, if so, could a mod please move it?


There has been a lot of discussion on here about Obama and his certificate of birth. Even the difference between a "birth certificate" and a "certificate of live birth".

However, from what I have actually seen a lot of it (if not all of it) is just talk.

Can any one ATS member here say that they have actually written a letter to Barack Obama asking him to release his Birth Certificate?

If there is a flood of people sending letters to the White House demanding to see his credentials the message should eventually sink in that people are cracking on to the fact that the system is corrupt - regardless of whether or not Obama is a legitimate President.

So for all of you here who come down on either side of the fence (and there are a lot of you) here's a challenge...

If you are for the idea of Obama being an ILIGITIMATE President, write in to the White House and ask (politely) to see a copy of Obama's Birth Certificate. Suggest that you have reason to belive that people are undermining his "authority" and you want to settle the issue in your own mind once and for all.

For those of you who believe that Obama is a LEGITIMATE President, do the same. Write in and ask for a copy of the Birth Certificate, so that you can show these "conspiracy nuts" that they are just that... "nuts" and you can put an end to the issue.

Post the scanned image of the letter that you sent to the White House. Make sure you send the letter so that you have proof of receipt (if you can afford to send it that way), alternatively get "proof of postage" from your post office.

Once that's done we'll all sit back and wait for the replies, which I am sure will be most interesting.

If we all do this, eventually, somone is going to get a response worthy of our attention. Yet, if none of us (or few of us) bother to do this, we'll all just sit here complaining that the "other side" don't listen "when the facts stare them in the face"... so far I have seen no facts. The challenge to you all is to get some and post them here...

Otherwise, this subject is not worth discussing and we should all get back to investigating, learning and denying ignorance...

P.S. As the challenge master, I'm not posting anything other than the above, but perhaps the odd comment will be forthcoming. Good luck to you all.




posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 04:01 AM
link   
hahahaha fine idea for sure, but its not gonna happen, then it would mean that all guys who all bitches up around the long form certificate, wont have anything more to go abe over. Second is i doubt they even know the adress to Mr.Obama and third how to spell it.

Best regards

Loke.:.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 04:06 AM
link   
You have about as much chance asking for the other 80+ copies of video showing the "plane" hitting the pentagon.

Also on a side note, why has he spent millions of his own dollars going around and sealing things like grades and applications to schools?

An innocent man has nothing to hide.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 05:32 AM
link   
reply to post by breakingdradles
 


I completely agree, which is why I offer this challenge to all and sundry here on ATS.

Anyone that wishes to discuss this subject should prove that they have actually attempted to get to the truth... one way or another.

All I have ever seen here are people offering conjecture, opinions and sometimes blatantly absurd theories. If, and I mean IF, people are this passionate about the subject they should show what research if any has been done.

I take issue with quite a number of things, but when it comes to some people here on ATS they have made up their minds without a single second being spent actually carrying out an investigation.

We are supposed to be here to deny ignorance. Instead I see a lot of people that are ignorant of the fact that we can find out... either that or they are too lazy to do anything to find out.

In any case, it's sad.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:08 AM
link   

Originally posted by dampnickers
There has been a lot of discussion on here about Obama and his certificate of birth. Even the difference between a "birth certificate" and a "certificate of live birth".

However, from what I have actually seen a lot of it (if not all of it) is just talk.

Can any one ATS member here say that they have actually written a letter to Barack Obama asking him to release his Birth Certificate?


Heres a simple solution. Provide the solid evidence that indicates Obama to have been born off US soil then the whitehouse will have no choice but to release the long form. Does anybody here have evidence that Obama was born off US soil? Or does anybody here with the gut to admit their belief in this conspiracy is actually based on no evidence what so ever?

SG



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:27 AM
link   
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


You're just as bad as these "birthers"!

What proof do you have that he was born ON U.S. soil...? None, yet you blindly accept that he's a legitimate President.

Do us all a favour and deny ignorance. Find the proof, post it here.

Is there no one here that is prepared to get an answer one way or the other?

I'm beginning to wonder.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by dampnickers
Obama's Birth Certificate... How to solve the problem?

Only one way ... and it's up to Obama.
He has to release the BC to solve the problem.


Originally posted by breakingdradles
why has he spent millions of his own dollars going around and sealing things like grades and applications to schools? An innocent man has nothing to hide.

God help me .. I agree with breakingdradles on this.


Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Does anybody here have evidence that Obama was born off US soil?

Does anybody here have evidence that Obama was born ON US soil?



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:32 AM
link   
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


I have no belief, one way or the other, concerning whether the President IS - or IS NOT - qualified (according to our Constitution) to be President! I just do not understand why any President would outright refuse to provide the legal documentation to put any questions at rest.

And, dampnickers, have you done what you are asking others to do?? Personally, I do not see what the problem is. If one is qualified, as the Constitution states, and there are questions surrounding this - then proof of qualification is a given!

Simple enough!



My post with links to Constitutional requirements to hold the office of US President



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by dampnickers
You're just as bad as these "birthers"!


Bad enough to be the one debunking each and every lie they come up with, right? At the end of the day Obama may be president but his rights are still protected under the constitution, no "question questions" thread on the net is going to change that. The only way anything is going change is once those behind this conspiracy prove to us there is solid evidence to these allegations.


What proof do you have that he was born ON U.S. soil...?

His short form birth certificate, which is a certification of birth under US law which has been verified by the Hawaiian health department and state government. Under Hawaiian law prior to 1982 with statute 338 you had to have been born in the United states to gain an Hawaiian birth certificate.

Also his birth has been announced in the news papers:
88.80.13.160.nyud.net...
88.80.13.160.nyud.net...

I think I'd be better believing he born on US soil as opposed to the faulty logic that Mrs Dunham left all the way to Kenya 8 months pregnant to give birth to Obama (with no flight records at hand) and then fly back to announce his birth on the newspapers.

Now, what evidence do birthers have that he was born off US soil?


yet you blindly accept that he's a legitimate President.


I dont blindly accept anything, he was made legitimate on November 4th 2008, December 15th 2008 at the presidential confirmation then lastly 21st of January 2009. Birthers are yet to prove him to be illegitimate.


Find the proof, post it here.


Yes.... how bout that proof he was born off soil? You all people, who appeared in the OP to be neutral on the matter, seems to sound no different to the rest of the birthers. Get that evidence if you want his long form.

SG

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 07:34 AM
link   
It has been said many times and many ways that Obama is the only one who holds the key to this problem. He is creating his own controversy by holding out on the nation.

Breakingdradles hit the nail on the head. An innocent man has nothing to hide. Obama should be proud to share his birth certificate with the world. He claims to be very proud of his heritage. Perhaps he is not hiding the location of his birth but is attempting to hide something darker like the true identity of his birth parents. May I present the first born son of Mr. and Mrs. Osama Bin Laden. Ha Ha Ha Just joking of course. I don't want to start any rumours.

Ahhh Who knows. I can't even sign my kids up for youth soccer without presenting a birth certificate so Obama needs to pony up and be a man about this simple issue. If he doesn't it is only going to get worse for him.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by jibeho]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 08:05 AM
link   

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
His short form birth certificate, which is a certification of birth under US law which has been verified by the Hawaiian health department

You keep saying that, but it simply isn't true.
They verified NOTHING other than that they have a BC in the vault.


Also his birth has been announced in the news papers:

You keep saying that but it means NOTHING since there was no proof of birth being in the US needed for the birth announcment AND the address given on the birth announcements in the papers went to an address that the Obamas DID NOT LIVE AT.


Birthers are yet to prove him to be illegitimate.

Koolaid drinkers are yet to prove him to be legitimate.



[edit on 7/20/2009 by FlyersFan]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 08:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by dampnickers
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


You're just as bad as these "birthers"!

What proof do you have that he was born ON U.S. soil...? None, yet you blindly accept that he's a legitimate President.

Do us all a favour and deny ignorance. Find the proof, post it here.

Is there no one here that is prepared to get an answer one way or the other?

I'm beginning to wonder.


I believe SG posted the proof for you. But, of course, that's not enough right? The only proof you'll accept is the long form because right wing fringe web sites tell you that's all that you can accept, right?

It doesn't matter about the birth announcements in the newspapers from 1961? It doesn't matter that the State Health Dept. verified they have the long form and it is valid? It doesn't matter that the short form is a totally legal and acceptable form of documentation for natural-born citizenship, right?


You keep saying that, but it simply isn't true.
They verified NOTHING other than that they have a BC in the vault.


That's rich. So Flyers, what BC do they have in the vault if it isn't Obama's long form? Is the Hawaiin State Dept. in the habit of collecting Birth Certificates from other countries? Are other countries in the habit of shipping over their birth certificates to foreign nations? I don't think so, but keep grasping for those straws



"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.


Source

And I have yet to see a link or source from any birth certificate thread that shows Obama has spent millions or even 10 bucks hiding this stuff. If someone would be so kind as to do so, that would be great. I'm going to go ahead and let you know that the legal fees he paid for his campaign counsel don't count as "running around the country" paying off judges and bribing government officials.

Nice job providing links to your sources and backing up your claims with facts, SG



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:38 AM
link   


Now, what evidence do birthers have that he was born off US soil?


None, of course, but if they repeat their claims often enough, they think they'll somehow stick.

It's kind of become my default criteria for establishing if a poster is for real, or a nut - if they start babbling about the birth cert nonsense, they're a nut



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:12 AM
link   
To answer the OP's question, there is an online petition which urges Obama to release his long form birth certificate. It currently has over 400,000 signatures:

www.wnd.com...

 


As to the issue itself: Even if you are an ardent Obama supporter, you must admit that something is very wrong here. You don't spend millions of dollars and file lawsuits against the American people when it would take you no more than $20 to present the long form birth certificate.

You don't revoke military personnel's orders to deploy because you don't want to face their lawsuit in court. You also don't send your goons to have the officer terminated from his civilian place of employment.

You don't order the media to engage in a smear campaign against citizens who ask you for validation.

When I was undergoing the hiring process for the airlines I had to present a long form birth certificate. I do not see why the president, especially one under this much scrutiny, does not. You do not seal your school records, either.

This does not necessarily have to be about citizenship or the location of his birth but it is the most likely. It could possibly be some other information on the certificate Obama does not want you to see.

So continue to call us birthers, fringe conspiracists, and nuts but you know in your heart something is indeed very wrong about all of this. Something is going on and they do not want the American people to know about it.

[edit on 7/20/2009 by AshleyD]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:54 AM
link   
I'll try to answer everything point-by-point, Ashley.


Originally posted by AshleyD
To answer the OP's question, there is an online petition which urges Obama to release his long form birth certificate. It currently has over 400,000 signatures:

www.wnd.com...

 


As to the issue itself: Even if you are an ardent Obama supporter, you must admit that something is very wrong here. You don't spend millions of dollars and file lawsuits against the American people when it would take you no more than $20 to present the long form birth certificate.



The short form is the only form Hawaii prints out for Birth Certificate requests. As I previously stated in this thread, the Hawaiin State Dept. confirmed they have the original BC in their vaults and it is an authentic certificate. Also, I have yet to hear of any lawsuits Obama has filed against the American people. Can you source some for me?

I also previously asked, and as of yet it has been unanswered, for someone to post information regarding any expenses he has made to specifically cover up this supposed issue. Could you source me to a non-partisan site that shows he did spend the millions you claim he did to cover this up?



You don't revoke military personnel's orders to deploy because you don't want to face their lawsuit in court. You also don't send your goons to have the officer terminated from his civilian place of employment.


This is untrue information dispensed by WND. The reservist in question enlisted in May 2009 and had the right to revoke his own orders up until the day before he was deployed. He only asked to be deployed under the pretense of creating a law suit to gain media attention for the subject. He never had the intention to actually deploy.


You don't order the media to engage in a smear campaign against citizens who ask you for validation.


What media campaign smears people who ask for the long form? In fact, the only media campaign I have seen stems from sites like WND that repeatedly put out quasi-true and outright fabrications of stories in order to keep the issue in our eyes. WND also claimed that they had someone who had Obama's Kenyan BC, then they said Obama was Indonesian, then they claimed his grandma remembers his birth (when it wasn't his grandmother, it was his paternal step-grandmother and the transcript clearly reveals she was talking about Obama Sr. not Jr.).


When I was undergoing the hiring process for the airlines I had to present a long form birth certificate. I do not see why the president, especially one under this much scrutiny does not. You do not seal your school records, either.


Ah, but you didn't show your long form to the general public, did you? Did you post it on a web site so I can check its accuracy as a concerned flier? Or as a flier should I be satisfied that the regulating agency (your employer) verified your citizenship? If we force Obama to generate the long form on grounds of suspicion, does this mean we set a precedent to force anyone's private records if we're merely suspicious of them (especially when they haven't performed any actions that directly affect our security or well-being)?

The state dept. verified they have his original long form BC in Hawaii and it is valid.


This does not necessarily have to be about citizenship or the location of his birth but it is the most likely. It could possibly be some other information on the certificate Obama does not want you to see.


Well, I can't really deal in hypotheticals like that. However in order to justify releasing the long form we need more than just suspicion. And if this isn't about his citizenship, then why do we care what his BC says? It obviously wouldn't be his fault that it's on there.


So continue to call us birthers or fringe conspiracists but you know something in your heart is indeed very wrong about all of this. Something is going on and they do not want the American people to know about it.


I don't feel that way at all. I supported Obama for the elections, and I'm not entirely happy with what he's done so far. However, I think this BC issue is grasping at straws when there's no evidence to show he was born anywhere but Hawaii. Some of his policies are suspect. His birth, in my eyes, is not.

Here is an eyewitness account from someone present at Obama's birth in Hawaii.

Snopes

WorldNetDaily is not reliable. MoveOn.org is not reliable. They have agendas and they are willing to sacrifice the truth and their ethics to further these agendas.

I apologize if fringe and birther are offensive, and I don't know if it was directed at me or not, but since finding out the terms were offending those who support this theory, I have stopped referring to them as such.

I will not stop referring to WND as a fringe, hard-right conservative propaganda machine, because it really is just that.

Edit for clarity.
[edit on 20-7-2009 by Avenginggecko]

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Avenginggecko]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 02:12 PM
link   
reply to post by Avenginggecko
 



Ah, but you didn't show your long form to the general public, did you? Did you post it on a web site so I can check its accuracy as a concerned flier?


I served cokes and showed people how to use a seat belt for a living. This is the Commander in Chief we're talking about and the one whose decisions affect the entire nation. If the American people he vowed to serve are asking for this, he should accommodate. He doesn't have to, I will admit, but he should.

When a man assumes a public trust, he should consider himself as public property. -Thomas Jefferson.

We're to be cataloged like cattle, our identification documents are beginning to include tracking chips, and we are placed under illegal surveillance but he claims privacy for his documentation? This is highly suspect.


Well, I can't really deal in hypotheticals like that. However in order to justify releasing the long form we need more than just suspicion. And if this isn't about his citizenship, then why do we care what his BC says? It obviously wouldn't be his fault that it's on there.


You may not have realized it but you hit the nail on the head: It comes down to hypothetical conspiracies and speculation. But why? Because that is exactly all he is leaving us with if he does not release the documentation. It would be so simple to stop all the rumors immediately if it were presented. Until then, we're left to speculate on why they are going to such lengths to conceal it. Some say it is a citizenship issue, some believe his paternity is someone else, some say his true date of birth is being concealed, some say he had a different name at birth, etc.

I cannot give an educated opinion on what information is being concealed nor do I have any strong opinion one way or another because all I can do is speculate due to the fact the document is not being released.

My personal opinion, although I may be wrong, is that he is a citizen of the United States (it is simply too far fetched for me personally to believe he made it this far without it being exposed that he was not a natural born citizen). However, this is too suspicious. There has to be something here he is not wanting us to see. What it is I do not know because as you point out all we can do is speculate. We can see something is not right about this but are only left to hypothesize.

 


I'm not aware of the exact figures of Obama's defense costs but from what I could find, the figures came out to the following as of March 2009:


Obama campaign has paid $1,066,691.90 to fight eligibility lawsuits

And, according to campaign finance reports, his Political Action Committee Obama for America has paid $1,066,691.90 to the Perkins Coie law firm between Oct. 16, 2008 and March 30, 2009 to fight every legal challenge requesting proof of his constitutional eligibility to hold the office of President of the United States.


www.sonorannews.com...

It's a conservative source so that may not be adequate for you since you requested non partisan but those are the estimates I could find. The number has most likely increased quite a bit as of March.

 


As for the solider issue, I am aware that as a reserve he could have revoked his deployment at any time. But this does not, in my opinion, dismiss the fact his orders were ultimately revoked by the military instead of fighting the suit or that he was fired from his civilian job in what appears to be an act of retaliation.

Perhaps his motives were to bring media attention to the case, as you claim- we do not know. But the above facts concerning the case cannot be dismissed.

I do feel that your claim 'He only asked to be deployed under the pretense of creating a law suit to gain media attention for the subject. He never had the intention to actually deploy' is based on speculation. It could be correct but you and I both must admit we do not know for certain.

 


As to the media smears against 'birthers,' they're all over the place. Here is one example.

Listen closely to the words used to describe the soldier. Delusional, cowardice, and jackass, to name a few:

www.youtube.com...

Would you consider that professional, unbiased behavior for a journalist?

 


I'm going to go ahead and stop there because I really don't want to get sucked into the 100th ATS birth certificate thread. However, I do wish people would reflect on the situation honestly.

Regardless of the reason behind it or my personal confusion and inability to form a solid opinion one way or another, I am forced to come to the conclusion something is amiss and acknowledge this issue could be easily resolved by our president but this is not being done.

That's really all I have to say. I don't consider myself a full fledged birther so I'm not going to fight adamantly but I can see something is not adding up here. I hope others can, too.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 03:13 PM
link   
www.ledger-enquirer.com...


A controversial suit brought by a U.S. Army reservist has been joined by a retired Army two-star general and an active reserve Air Force lieutenant colonel.


The problem with the birth certificate is much bigger than people realize.

Obama could have been born in Hawaii. Lets us just say he was.

The problem is that military officers are starting to get into this. There is a risk that it, the birth issue, can gain more traction within the military.

What happens if certain parts of the military starts questioning the authority of the civilian government? Do we, no matter how we feel about Obama, REALLY WANT a military that questions the authority of the civilian government?

Obama should just show the damn paper. How hard can it be?

[edit on 20-7-2009 by wutone]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 03:36 PM
link   
reply to post by wutone
 


As I have stated before on this thread multiple times and on the many other birth conspiracy threads, Hawaii only issues the short form birth certificate. You can't "pay more" to get the long form of it, and even if you could, it would be a Xerox copy. No one who subscribes to this conspiracy would ever believe in the authenticity of the Xerox.

If you want Obama to "just release it", I suggest you begin lobbying the state officials of Hawaii to amend their state laws so that private citizens can request the original, uncopied long form vaulted certificate.

Hawaiin health department officials have verified that the short form certificate is a valid certificate. They have verified that they have the vaulted birth certificate. There are 2 newspaper clippings in Hawaii verifying his birth in 1961. There is an eyewitness that remembers him being born in the hospital that day.

If none of the above will satisfy you, then honestly, do you believe a copy of the long form will? Honestly?

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Avenginggecko]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 04:19 PM
link   
Alright... know what? How hard would it be for the government to create a false document?

Anyone? Anyone at all?

So let's say Obama DOES produce a legal birth certificate, short and long... and hell, offers a piece of his umbilical cord for DNA sampling... how many of you would accept that?

Hello? Anyone?

Really... would any of you accept the fact the the document was an actual birth certificate, issued by the state... knowing that it could be forged or faked by the government?

You guys just won't be happy with any answer.

(no, I do not support Obama... but man, give it a break already)

[edit: I will be copying and pasting this on other birther threads, because let's face it... there's more serious stuff in the world that needs attention than this rehashed bit over and over again]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by dampnickers
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


You're just as bad as these "birthers"!

What proof do you have that he was born ON U.S. soil...? None, yet you blindly accept that he's a legitimate President.

Do us all a favour and deny ignorance. Find the proof, post it here.

Is there no one here that is prepared to get an answer one way or the other?

I'm beginning to wonder.

This is the way the law works: If you (the plaintiff) want to sue Obama over his citizenship, you have to show "harm" to yourself if he is not. This is a LEGAL definition, not just that you are morally outraged. Frankly, the law doesn't care if you are morally outraged or not. Then you would have to offer some kind of evidence that Obama was not born in the US. Newsclippings from Kenya about a grandmother's utterences are not evidence. I think it's pretty clear that no one has actually done that yet.
My personal opinion is that there is some other content in the "long form" birth certificate that he does not want released. Perhaps Barack Hussain Obama, sr. isn't listed as his father.



new topics

top topics



 
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join