Dear Skeptics...

I am just curious why you are all so hell bent on dismissing an experoence that you yourself have not experienced?

What is the motive behind this???

Fear?

I can understand if you don't want to believe such things as alien abductions, but why is it such an obsession to tell people their experience never happened, when some have had MULTIPLE abductions etc???

I can understand being PO'ed about he Astar command baloney and people claiming to be your savior etc...

But when it comes to millions of normal, every day people being abducted, sharing their experiences and looking for help etc, I just don't understand it.

I also am seriously irritated by hoaxes etc, but not EVERYTHING is a hoax.

Mabey you just need to accept that?

reply to post by mellisamouse


I would suppose wording is a bit askew.

Noone is hellbent on dismissing it, more hellbent on explaining it, and if by explaining it, it dismiss' it, then yes but it's a stretch.

We all want the answers, (although some ats members have given up on any form of an answer, because they can be very blah and moved onto neverending theories). We seek answers.

Just because a mass populace believes something, doesn't make it true.

I don't dismiss anything - I also don't believe anything.

Nothing can be proven - so nothing can be dismissed - nothing can be proven - so nothing can be believed.

I am interested in abduction accounts - I think there are many explanations, I am willing to entertain the possibility of all of them.

Personally, my knowledge so far is leaning to a theory that alien UFO's are terrestrial in origin, and in fact are related to the scum who seem to control everything. I think they are using genetic modification to create a race of beings that look alien - and they use ships based on tesla's designs.

Of course - it could be aliens - but the more I know, the more likely I think that it is not aliens at all.

reply to post by mellisamouse


How about less whining about those that disagree and more providing information that support your position? *or learning to type better but I have no room to talk really

*

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by Republican08
We all want the answers,

Well I asked this same question of a 'hard core' skeptic that works over time looking for threads to debunk....

My question...

So tell me if there is NOTHING to t[[hread/theory/post] why on Earth did all the regular skeptics including Phage ArMaP and Jim Oberg swoop in so fast to denounce it?

Surely prudence would say "Oh this is crap... let's just ignore it and it will fade into obscurity"

But with so much skeptic activity on the thread giving it a life all its own... it means either;

A) your all bored and have nowhere to hang out

or

B) there really IS something here to look at


The reply was...

Originally posted by JScytale

christ.
do i have to spell everything out for you?

the reason people debunk retarded theories like this one is because they are so blatantly ignorant that people who actually think and research feel obligated to correct them before people start jumping on the bandwagon to stupidity.

I say that about covers it

unfortunately just as there are skeptics who refute all information that could possibly sway them, there are believers who refute all information even some that could prove there are alternate explanations. there fore you are going to run into all types

I have also wondered about this myself.


Slight digression here, but i know people who will resist, the idea of something out-of-the-norm after experiencing occurrences first hand!

Once with three others pokin around in a cemetery down an old dirt road, some really funky kind of stuff happened to us.

The next day at school, only one of the guys wanted to talk about it. It was taboo.

The other guy, who led us on this adventure would talk about it; but, nobody would listen to him, because he had already been labeled as a flake.

They did not want to be ostracized by the status quo!

Each of the other two would talk to me about it in private, but they did not want the word to get out. It's like it never happened man. We were scared out of our gourds. Now i admit that i over reacted at first and wrote off the first part as my imagination. (i had an OBE--and I saw them! omg. i said that, where's the prozac?)

What happened later was a single occurrence that was just coincidence, but what a coincidence! After we left the cemetery, Jim swore that we would see a sign.

About a few miles down the road, a traffic light malfunctioned. I have never since seen this kind of malfunction. We were approaching the intersection of a busy highway. We had a green light. All of the cars that were supposed to be stopped for the red light, on their side, started to go through the intersection. We were getting ready to go through that intersection. The driver had to slam on brakes abruptly to avoid an accident. We looked up at the traffic signal; and, the green light was on all the way around.

Nobody thought about it, until we resumed our way. Then Jim said. "What did i tell you about a sign?"

Considering the statistic involved, i felt it was significant. To this day, i bet none of the others will talk about it; and, they will act like it never happened; except for Jim.

People are very strongly conditioned by left brain thinking. They are firmly going to hold onto preconceived notions and beleifs. They will not even believe their own eyes.

Now, why would someone like to pick on somebody because they can not prove an alien abduction? Maybe this is an ego thing. Makes em feel smart. They get a little ego kick out of starting trouble. But, then again, maybe they are grounding their own beleif system. Why do they even jump in the thread? Sort of like the jocks pickin on the nerds in high school. HA!

Some may be in search of actual paranormal events, but, a little disappointed, because of their belief system. Personally, i don't think that if your mind is open, that you will experience phenomena, unless you are around someone who is open to the idea. In the ghost story, Jim, may very well have been a medium. I don't know. But, our society loves to condition people;and, some believe that we should all think the same.


I love talkin to the loonies and readin the really bizzare stuff. It can be addicting; and, a litle like science fiction. Expands your perception, when someone shows me something i haven't thought of before. But, even I feel an urge to slap some of em a bit for a laugh. Human Nature i guess.

Science stamps out ideas that can not be seen and measured (left brain) However, isn't it a little flaky that the observer can effect the behaviour of an atom?

Paranormal events have occurred at my house and witnessed by me and my brother. I can talk to him about it; but, he doesn't like it. He would be the first one to laugh at someone telling a ghost story. He's a conservative skeptic; at least that is the mask that he presents to the world.

So, if i brought it out in public, he would say, "i don't want to talk about it"

Who me? I ain't seen no ghost. I'm not crazy man!

Originally posted by mellisamouse
I am just curious why you are all so hell bent on dismissing an experoence that you yourself have not experienced?

It all comes down to what each of us needs to believe, some people need very little while others want tangible proof.

What is the motive behind this???

Fear?

I can understand if you don't want to believe such things as alien abductions, but why is it such an obsession to tell people their experience never happened, when some have had MULTIPLE abductions etc???

Fear? I think not for most skeptic would be extremely excited if any of it actaully became proof positive.

But when it comes to millions of normal, every day people being abducted, sharing their experiences and looking for help etc, I just don't understand it.

Millions? Why don't we have an offical task force on this, why isn't it on the news everyday....the problem is with all these so called abductions we have nothing but what a person thinks happened.

I also am seriously irritated by hoaxes etc, but not EVERYTHING is a hoax.

Mabey you just need to accept that?

No I agree that many of these people truly feel they were abducted, but does that mean I need to believe them 100%. I will agree something unusable happened to them, but I need a little bit more than their observations.

What if all the abductions were real, but done by a secret government group to experiment on population control for that has as much merit as aliens with the shear lack of physical evidence out there.

I don't believe on ghost either, but i would love to spend a year of my life investigating them, as example of an area I would love to disprove my beliefs in.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by mellisamouse


I do have to say I am not skeptical of aliens existing but I am undecided as to what exactly aliens are for what of a better way to put it.

It does puzzle me why people cannot accept the fact that we could in fact be the first life form that is intelligent and not the last. Does the fact that so many people need to believe in life that is more intelligent than ourselves right now not tell you about humanity as a whole and yourself?

From what I see when I open my own eyes, everything has a weakness regardless, therefore even if aliens exist and have more advanced technology than our own it does not mean they are more intelligent. Heck ive met human beings that know the law inside out yet cannot tie their own shoelaces. Ive also met people who cannot change a light bulb yet can work work until the sun sets without breaking a sweat.

If a race of aliens were all intelligent as a whole species wouldnt that make them drones? Diversity is what makes us special, people should pay more attention where its needed in my opinion, right here because this is where its all happening.

A human being once said "Ignorance is bliss" that applies to here just as much as it does to UFO's etc.



[edit on 20-7-2009 by XXXN3O]

I dont know mate.. its a decent enough consern, but when you think about it, we need skeptics. We need to BE skeptical as well. Especially with this little hobby. I will restate a recent happening I myself experienced. I have seen many things that led me to believe there are other forms of life out "there", to the point where I do. I saw something one day while driving a boom truck that nearly made me wreck. Not to mention what it almost made me do in me trousers. Instead of going to my destination, my home was on the way, I was loading up ATS getting ready to announce BIG FU&*ING UFO over Cheyenne Wyoming!!! BLOODY HELL READ ME!!! even had it typed in the subject bar but my inner skeptic told me to look at the surrounding area before posting what would potentially make me look like an arse. So as I was grabbing my camera, and my bionoculars, I did just that. HUGE floating thing fins on top and bottom. Colour, Silver, location, huge wind farm on local base. Shape, Oblong. I look just a little lower, and there they were. the bloody cables holding it in place. It was a fu*&ing balloon. I felt SO stupid, but not nearly as stupid as I would have felt when I posted the afore mentioned. Also its handy to make nice with skeptics as they too will prevent you from these sort of things.

What i am reading into Mellissamouse's inquiry is not so much as why the skeptics don't believe as to why they have to invalidate someone who has an experience.

How do you prove an experience? brain scan? So ya know there is no proof before ya go in.

Does every post or idea or suggestion on these forums have to have "proof"?

i can understand, i get peaved when someone posts something like "Conclusive Proof of UFO's" and then you get there and there are no pics or proof at all.

But, when someone is looking for advice from others who may have had similar experiences and they are not trying to shove ego on ya; invalidation makes it very difficult for collaboration. No one wants to open up, if they are going to have to endure people who must inflict their ego/beliefs on them.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by ogbert]

Originally posted by mellisamouseI also am seriously irritated by hoaxes etc, but not EVERYTHING is a hoax.

Of course not. Who said that?

Mabey you just need to accept that?

Maybe you need to read more about the subject.
For example read this analysis, there are many more in the JSE :
Alleged Experiences Inside UFOs: An Analysis of Abduction Reports
www.scientificexploration.org...

I'm a skeptic who has had a UFO experience that left no doubt in my mind extraterrestrials exist.

Why am I a skeptic? Because the UFO scene is filled to the brim with nonsense and conjecture, and I want to get to real truths - that's why. Approach every claim with a skeptical mind and the few that stand the test of science and logical thought are worth betting your reputation on. Debunk the blatantly stupid theories and maybe you'll save a handful of people from going down the wrong road.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by JScytale]

Faith is the belief in the absence of evidence.
Scientific scepticism that is rational and coherent is the BEST method to approach extraordinary claims such as alien abductions or UFO sightings.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. (Carl Sagan)

Hard evidence that withstands scientific examinations.

So far not a single shred of hard evidence has been confirmed by scientists around the world on the same issue that could be validated as proof.

That is why the whole UFO phenomena can't be taken for serious so far.
Everything on this board is based on loose assumptions, often ending in a non sequitur.

I am not saying that they're not out there or on this very planet, there's just simply no hard evidence supporting these claims.

Rational scepticism and doubt is not an alternative but the ONLY way to find the real truth and real truth only. Based on facts that can be tested and tested again without illogical outcomes.

That's not my personal opinion by the way but the very perspective of 99% of respected scientists on our little mudball.

Just because millions of people literally believe in a white-bearded skygod doesn't make him any more true. It is just an assumption that can't be proved or disproved. Same with aliens or UFOs for that matter.

What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence (Christopher Hitchens).

So long and thanks for all the fish

[edit on 20-7-2009 by dna42]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by mellisamouse

 

How about less whining about those that disagree and more providing information that support your position? *or learning to type better but I have no room to talk really

*

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

well the thing is, those of us that have experienced this first hand, have enough "proof" for ourselves, and just would like to tal to each other about it....

but THAT is not the point of this thread, the point WAS.....why are you so obsessed with it??? Why can't you just let it be? What is your obsession with trying to debunk something that can't be "proven"....if it can't be "proven" then it also can't be debunked, you prove it DIDN'T happen, ummm you cannot.

reply to post by ogbert


exactly!

It brings me back to the same thing I often will use as an example.....

Say someone was raped, but was too scared to come forward, then the rapist dies, that person finally gets to a point they need to talk about it, and there really is NO WAY to prove it, what woulod happen if everywhere they went for help, the person said...

"don't talk about it yet, until you can PROVE IT etc...... that person can't PROVE it, they just want some friggin help!

Originally posted by wx4caster
unfortunately just as there are skeptics who refute all information that could possibly sway them, there are believers who refute all information even some that could prove there are alternate explanations. there fore you are going to run into all types

while I TOTALLY agree with you there...... I just don't understand the obsession with something that they personally have not experienced....

Alien abduction for example, while may be hard to prove, cannot logically be disproven either, when there are now cases in the millions, globally.....

BUT the point is, why don't they just "move along" to other threads......what is their obsession with practically mentally abusing these peopel, who have obviously already got problems they need to tal about, but pretty much can never open up because all theses people jusmp in who HAVEN'T experienced this, so obviously have NOTHING to contribute to giving the person advice, and then they basically shut down any real discussion by making it all about "them" and their need for "proof".....seriously, one day when they get their precious "proof", and they are freaking out and crapping bricks, then, then THEY are the ones who will have nowhere to turn to, because they have laid this disfunctional groundwork that goes NO WHERE.......

Why can'tthey just sit bac and observe the conversation to see where it goes???

What are they trying to hide by supressing others????

Is this their worst fear, so they obsess about shutting it down?

Being a skeptic. I do not understand why some (not all) believers say that we are scared of aliens (fear). Why would we be scared?..lol.. There's no reason. I usually do not post in any abduction threads, I just read. I find the subject of aliens facinating, but do I believe in Aliens? No. I just enjoy reading the theories and the experiences and seeing some cool videos and pictures. Again, I do not understand why we would be scared. If they exist thats awesome, if they don't I won't be surprised at all. I understand what you are talking about with some of the skeptics on these boards, just throwing things out their that don't fit at all. But they are not the majority Or at least I hope they aren't. They give actual skeptics a bad name....

[edit on Jul 20th 2009 by TheMythLives]

I believe the problem my be a choice of vocabulary. There is nothing wrong with being a skeptic. With the multitude of hoaxes being perpetuated by people, misrepresented videos, etc. being skeptic is a healthy outlook to have.

However, the OP is describing a debunker, namely someone who debunks for the sake of debunking.

I do not agree with the OP that a thread should be ignored just because you think the person is not telling the truth. I do agree that there are plenty of circumstances where the person can't supply evidence - and I accept that. But a blatant lie is a blatant lie, and a person needs to be called out on that.

Originally posted by JScytale
I'm a skeptic who has had a UFO experience that left no doubt in my mind extraterrestrials exist.

Why am I a skeptic? Because the UFO scene is filled to the brim with nonsense and conjecture, and I want to get to real truths - that's why. Approach every claim with a skeptical mind and the few that stand the test of science and logical thought are worth betting your reputation on. Debunk the blatantly stupid theories and maybe you'll save a handful of people from going down the wrong road.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by JScytale]

While I also TOTALLY understand and agree with the logic here, and yes we do need skeptics when people are making wild claims, BUT if the thread reads......

Need some help with my lepracaun harrassment, and a bunch of others believe in leprechauns, why not just OBSERVE those conversations and see where they will go?

If someone is saying on the other hand however "LEprechauns are real, I HAVE PROOF!" THEN go debunking.....

When some people just wwant to talk about their leprachauns, let them talk......when someone calims PROOF OF LEPRAHCAUNS!!! WOW!!!!, then head in for the debunking...

And again, if someone just says, I would like to share my lepra=echaun experience...then let them share, because provsable or NOT, EXPERIENCE is experience... PERIOD......


If they say hey, help me convince myself this didn't happen, then help them, but if they say, this happened to me, does anyone else have any similar experiences, then.....let it BE!!!

Make sense?