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US sends Treasury Secretary panhandling

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posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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Just another story in the slowly unfolding saga of America's coming financial demise.




The recession, financial crisis and two wars have pushed the federal deficit above $1 trillion, a record level that makes the Treasury secretary's role as chief marketer of U.S. debt tougher than any of his recent predecessors'. Geithner, who traveled last week to the Middle East and Europe, has to convince foreign investors to keep buying Treasury bills, notes and bonds; they hold nearly half of the government's roughly $7 trillion in publicly traded debt.


MSN Treasury Bond Story

The story basically tells us that the US Treasury Secretary Giethner, is currently travellng the world in an attempt to persuade other governments to continue buying our bonds.

How can anyone try to deny that we are further gone than anytime since the Great Depression? In other words, its probably been since the Civil War that the US has had to send its government officials off begging to other nations. The end of this ride can not be far off.

How bad is it? Note that the article mentions that when stated at Peking University that investments in the US are 'safe', that the crowd broke into laughter. In other words my fellow citizens (US), we have sadly lived long enough to actually see our nation's financial credibility made a laughing stock.

Its a sad day in America.




posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:18 PM
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Since this was my first ATS new topic post. I am just wondering if anyone else can even see this, or did I pick a topic that is too boring?



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Sashromi
 


I think its a great TOPIC. SADLY, our friends on the LEFT (or socialists) who are both in the democratic and republican parties refuse to see the writing on the wall.

The DEMOCRATS still want to expand health care, social security, unemployment benefits, education, subsidizing their "Green" businesses.

The REPUBLICANS still want to expand our wars, increase military spending, subsidizing their Big-business friends.

Nothing to see here REPUBS AND DEMOS...keep your head buried in the sand. Why let a little thing called reality, bother you.




[edit on 21-7-2009 by Gateway]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:36 PM
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Well, unfortunately for your first post, bonds aren't sexy. Many people get caught at "price and yeild move in opposite direction". Those that get past that find bonds pretty boring.

Gietner is not the first Sec Tres to have to go pandering to get others to buy our debt. Paulson did at least a couple of times himself. The only reason people are still buying is that they can't think of anything else to put the money into that is safer than the dollar. That may be changing, China has been stockpiling commodities.

There have been some pretty good threads about the US debt situation.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by Gateway
reply to post by Sashromi
 


I think its a great TOPIC. SADLY, our friends on the LEFT (or socialists) who are both in the democratic and republican parties refuse to see the writing on the wall.

The DEMOCRATS still want to expand health care, social security, unemployment benefits, education, subsidizing their "Green" businesses.

The REPUBLICANS still want to expand our wars, increase military spending, subsidizing their Big-business friends.

Nothing to see here REPUBS AND DEMOS...keep your head buried in the sand. Why let a little thing called reality, bother you.




[edit on 21-7-2009 by Gateway]


Hmm - ecept for the fact that the countries with the highest living standards one earth are ALL socialist ..... oops ......didn't realise that did you humpty.

Even my country, Australia, is considered to be the best performing nation on earth - and we comfortably fit into ALL OF THE ABOVE - you see its not a socialist thing whcih is destroying your country - rather it is the fascist thing - one day you will understand this - perhaps you could and electricLIght could do some reading together ?



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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Here's something to ponder, if you knew civilization, as you know it, were going to end soon, wouldn't you blow through cash and credit like there was no tomorrow?

Everything these guys seem to be doing seems rather counter productive unless they were hedging against a no win future where debt repayment is irrelevant.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by audas

Hmm - ecept for the fact that the countries with the highest living standards one earth are ALL socialist ..... oops ......didn't realise that did you humpty.
We are the country with the highest LIVING standard and we are not as socialist...yet. Why is it people from these so-called socialist countries have had and continue to have brain drains and see their best and brightest come to our country and stay. Maybe they like coming here and like being abused by our dynamic financial, and employment markets or maybe they come here and fooled into paying for our still relatively low income taxes, no....maybe they like being tricked into having to find their own way and pay for their health care, since it's not free here....yet.


It's your argument that doesn't stand-up to scrutiny. People vote with their feet. And so people still prefer to live in a place that gives them the freedom of keeping what little of their fruits of labor can give them...rather than seeing the State Grow ever larger and waste their resources.





Even my country, Australia, is considered to be the best performing nation on earth - and we comfortably fit into ALL OF THE ABOVE
This is a Non Sequitur, your country (Australia's) relative success as apposed to other nations is not due IT being more SOCIALIST than others. Preposterous, rather it's the fact that you don't have government printing up dollars to buy your way out of spending. That would be like arguing that North Korea is an economic powerhouse due to its socialism.




- you see its not a socialist thing whcih is destroying your country - rather it is the fascist thing - one day you will understand this - perhaps you could and electricLIght could do some reading together ?
Regardless of whatever you wish to call it, Fascist or Socialist they both come from the LEFT point of view. It is an ideology of GOVERNMENT interference in markets. Instead of falsely misleading people into the notion that socialist nations are more prosperous do TO SOCIALISM...why don't you look and ADMIT...at the fact the ability to pay for all of these socialist programs comes OFF the BACK of the productive and WHAT little CAPITALISM EXIST in these countries to begin with. KILL THE LITTLE CAPITALISM THAT EXISTS...AND WATCH THE NATION IMPLODE.

The more socialist a nation moves towards...the more poverty stricken it becomes.


[edit on 21-7-2009 by Gateway]

[edit on 21-7-2009 by Gateway]



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by Gateway
 


You are wrong on almost every point - firstly America is no where near the highest living standard - not by a country mile - secondly the prosperity and exceedingly high living standards of Australia and other countries which have vastly higher standards of living the the USA is exactly because of their socialist policies.

You have considerably little understanding of the distinctions between fascism and socialism - in fact none - you seem to equate the government as some left wing demon which is opposed to all things prosperous - which is a quaint "sterotype" held through sheer ignorance of political science or international relations.

The US government is the biggest on earth - has been for decades - Obama is doing little to change this - the US military IS the government and so accounts for 70% of all spending - this is the primary employer in your country - further this is the greatest form os socialism there is - der.

Further the creation of high universal health and education are the bedrocks of the most progressive countries on earth which also have the highest standards of living - which America does not.

The Scandanavian countries, the Nordics and Northern Europeans enjoy the highest standard of living on earth - they are all socialist, capitalist democracies - in other words they take a percentage of taxation for expenditure on the betterment and improvement of society as a whole - the US is a fascist pseudo-democracy - corporations and oligarchs have authority with the façade of democracy maintained for stooges to believe in.

What people such as yourself utterly fail to realise is that without taxation there would be no roads, police, military, or in fact any wealth at all - the US would literally be a quagmire of unruly anarchy - this is what law and order provide for.

The idea of providing universal health care is not one of some left wing liberal conspiracy - it about absolute common decency - it countries like YEMEN, Nigeria, Sudan or Equatorial Guinea who allow people to die on the streets for want of simple medication, it is third world back waters like the Congo who refuse to help their people who are starving, who refuse to better their people through education, who refuse to heal the sick - it is a depraved and sickly society that can not udnerstand that they must strive to provide the best they can.

America is no where NEAR the top of the list for living standards is concerned - it may have the highest GDP - but it also has the WORST INCOME DISTRIBUTION ON EARTH -

Politics and Economics are NOT your strong point, stereotypes, shibboleths and myths appear to be your forte.



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by audas

You are wrong on almost every point
Ok...please tell me where.




- firstly America is no where near the highest living standard - not by a country mile
So, I should take the comment. "America is no where near the highest living standard." As your word without any proof on your part.

Great way to argue. Yes..I shall try to use your debating techniques with others..
Step 1...disregard your opponent's comments with, "Na ah...No it's not". And leave it at that.




- secondly the prosperity and exceedingly high living standards of Australia and other countries which have vastly higher standards of living the the USA is exactly because of their socialist policies.
Aaah so therefore, socialism = prosperity. Therefore, the further a nation moves towards socialism the better off a nation is. Well, then I guess North Korean, Cuba, Nicaragua, hell here's a whole slew of countries...

en.wikipedia.org...

All of these countries are prosperous, I suppose?

I guess the U.S. should therefore strive to achieve these successful models since it has brought on such great living standards and happiness for these nations and their citizens.




You have considerably little understanding of the distinctions between fascism and socialism - in fact none
Kido...
Fascism is a form of leftism, because it dictates and determine who shall be participating in markets. It is leftist because government is deciding who the major players will be, it limits the competition of those in the market. The large firms that remain, have an almost revolving employment of those withing government which then go right back into working in the firm. The line between government and firms (those left standing) is hardly indistinguishable. Government influences those firms left standing, and the firms left standing influence government policy.

Socialism is too another form of leftism. It encompasses full control of all sectors of the economy. All profits go back into government. There is no competition. There are no markets.

Communism is the extreme left, where...like socialism all sectors are controlled by government with NO PRIVATE PROPERTY. Everything is owned by the STATE. INCLUDING YOU...why you...because you live as part of the organic system which is the STATE. YOU live for the state and die for the STATE. There are no INDIVIDUALS in the state. No one is harder working, smarter, more talented....EVERYONE IS EQUAL!!





- you seem to equate the government as some left wing demon which is opposed to all things prosperous
Because governments kills,(wars) it enslaves,(conscripts, taxation) it interferes in markets, (Central Banks, IMF, World Bank, etc)...I could go on and on about the EVIL that is government. All governments.

The existence of government negates freedom, because by its very definition government is nothing but ORGANIZED PLUNDER COMPULSION AND COERCION.



- which is a quaint "sterotype" held through sheer ignorance of political science or international relations.
Well...teach me then...kid.



The US government is the biggest on earth - has been for decades - Obama is doing little to change this - the US military IS the government and so accounts for 70% of all spending - this is the primary employer in your country - further this is the greatest form os socialism there is - der.
Your point here is what...that our MILITARY is great? So what?




Further the creation of high universal health and education are the bedrocks of the most progressive countries on earth
Bedrock of what? You just made a normative statement, with no argument. That would be like me saying a POWERFUL military is the bedrock of any nation.

You didn't say anything, in this statement above. You just declared something that YOU think is important.



which also have the highest standards of living - which America does not.
Yes our standard of living here is so miserable that people are flocking here by the boat fulls...to live in misery.



The Scandanavian countries, the Nordics and Northern Europeans enjoy the highest standard of living on earth - they are all socialist, capitalist democracies - in other words they take a percentage of taxation for expenditure
Ah...now you said something. Yes they do TAKE a percentage...try 60 to 70% maybe even more of the earnings to pay for these things. How do you know, that if the 60 to 70% of that income was given back it could be spent on priorities on what PEOPLE deem important. If I give you back 60 to 70% percent of your income would you know how to spend it properly to maximize your welfare. Or do you believe yourself and your countrymen to be to IGNORANT and STUPID to know that they need to save some for the future, for medicine, for education and so on? Be careful how you answer this!!




on the betterment and improvement of society as a whole - the US is a fascist pseudo-democracy - corporations and oligarchs have authority with the façade of democracy maintained for stooges to believe in.
You have said nothing here, we already know. We know government is encroaching into our capitalism and we are not happy about it. That is why OBAMA will be voted out in 4 years. I almost guarantee it. Our country is based on hard work and individual achievement and limited government. Our forefathers new TOO much government means few choices and less liberty. This is who WE are...if your people want government to dictate to you what to do and when to do it, then so be it. Good luck to you.



What people such as yourself utterly fail to realise is that without taxation there would be no roads, police, military, or in fact any wealth at all
Well then why not tax 100% of our income so that we can tax our way to prosperity? Ridiculous.......the police, military and roads did not make us the nation we are today. We are a successful nation because we have always believed that small and un-intrusive government is the way to prosperity. Our wealth is Due to OUR PRIVATE sector...the encroachment of larger government has been AFTER the fact. Our founding fathers, didn't create, department of education, department of labor, IRS, CIA, BEA, so on and so forth.

Our wealth led to the creation of these stupid governmental agencies. Our wealth did not come from the creation of them!!




- the US would literally be a quagmire of unruly anarchy - this is what law and order provide for.
Yes, I'm sure the American people would STARVE if we didn't have those FEDERAL AGENCIES.





The idea of providing universal health care is not one of some left wing liberal conspiracy - it about absolute common decency
Yes, which is why most people in our country HAVE PAID for health care. And If I had cancer, aids, or any terminal sickness I would be happier treated here WHERE WE HAVE THE BEST OF THE BEST, because it is private health care, than go to some mediocre SOCIALIST system where MOST...IF NOT ALL THE NEWEST MEDICAL INNOVATION AND TECHNIQUES by the way came from the U.S. A private health care system.



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by audas
 




- it countries like YEMEN, Nigeria, Sudan or Equatorial Guinea who allow people to die on the streets for want of simple medication, it is third world back waters like the Congo who refuse to help their people who are starving, who refuse to better their people through education, who refuse to heal the sick - it is a depraved and sickly society that can not udnerstand that they must strive to provide the best they can.
ALL of those countries are miserable HELL HOLES, because they destroyed PRIVATE ownership and don't enforce property rights. DO YOU NOT SEE ONE OBVIOUS TRAIT ALL OF THOSE NATIONS YOU MENTION SHARE? Here's a hint: none of them practice CAPITALISM.

But you know what they ALL DO share and have in common....They all Practice LEFTIST IDEOLOGIES. Their main problem is that they killed off ALL the capitalism that THEY COULD have exploited to pay for all of those programs you talk about.




America is no where NEAR the top of the list for living standards is concerned - it may have the highest GDP - but it also has the WORST INCOME DISTRIBUTION ON EARTH -
That's relative. Our poorest here, lives like a king as opposed to other nations. You think the poor here live like the poor in the Congo? I'll gladly put-up and compare our poor with one of your poor to see who has it worst. Our poor southern black who owns a color tv, eats everyday, probably has a low paying job,(a job nonetheless) but at least a job, maybe even a car, a roof over his head, up against your unemployed, starving, car-less, homeless, and marginalized, Aborigine. And see who has it worst...then...ask both the aborigine, and southern Black if he would rather live in the U.S. or Australia.



Politics and Economics are NOT your strong point, stereotypes, shibboleths and myths appear to be your forte.


Kid, you won't believe what my education is, much less what I do for a living. Though, it is irrelevant anyway. Bring on the debate. But I warn you...you better see what I've written about before you go on any further, and challenge what I say.




[edit on 22-7-2009 by Gateway]



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