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I believe the government is evil, lieing, tyrannical, murderous etc now what ?

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posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 07:46 PM
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Ok so I didn't really know where to post this, but it applies to pretty much all the major conspiracy theories, from Roswell to 9/11 to the NWO.

There are people that truely believe they are correct in their assumptions that the governments of the world are lying to us and are trying to control us, there are those who truely believe the powers that be want to kill us or enslave us. There are of course others who have thought up more kooky theories like our governments being under orders from the subterranean reptilian aliens, but they again truely believe it to be the truth.

Now they will debate on these forums till they are blue in the face that what they believe is true, will show circumstancial (let's face it, if it was concrete we wouldn't be debating validity) evidence to prove their theories are indeed correct, yet noone ever seems to ask a very important question.

And that question is... Ok I believe, now what do you want from me ?

And that is the ultimate question, all these conspiracy theories suggest an evil, lieing, controlling government infringing on our very liberties our ancestors have fought against countless opressive enemies to protect and yet the best they can do is post their ideas on the internet ?

Seriously, just think about it for a second, what is posting on forums going to achieve apart from getting others to go "well yeah maybe you're right, it's definately worth thinking about", what is all the constant debating and arguing over things like 9/11 worth if at the end of it all everyone goes back to their lives living in ignorance to the so called opressive tyranny running their country and burying it into the ground ?

Alot of Americans like to talk about their right to keep and bear arms thanks to the 2nd Amendment, however wasn't its premise for exactly what is supposedly going on around them right now ? So that a civilian militia can be formed to overthrow an opressive tyrannical government ?

So I ask this to all the conspiracy believers out there, what is it that you actually hope to achieve from getting subscribers to your belief ?

Have you even thought about the end result and the goals of your passion to get your point of view across to "convert" others or will you just go back to sitting in your chair at your computer searching for a new conspiracy theory to believe and ultimately never do anything about it.

Talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words, yet all these conspiracy theorists ever seem to do is talk, they don't even try to present their evidence in a court of law to get those they believe to be responsible convicted.

Ultimately, if the truth was revealed, what would you do ? Would it really satisfy you ? would you rise up in rebellion to overthrow your opressors or would you look for a new theory to follow ?

This thread isn't a flame or a dig at any of you who subscribe to these theories it's more to find out your motivations behind believing and questioning why you're happy to sit at computer arguing about impending doom but don't seem happy to do anything to prevent it




posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 08:01 PM
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This torpidity seems to be everywhere, especially in people who own quantities of material things...Home,Car,PC,HD TV etc...have played the game, feel a sense of achievement and gain respect from others like themselves.

Those that have very little are prepared to fight, because the only thing they have , is a sense of fairness and freedom.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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And that is the ultimate question, all these conspiracy theories suggest an evil, lieing, controlling government infringing on our very liberties our ancestors have fought against countless opressive enemies to protect and yet the best they can do is post their ideas on the internet ?


Personally, I read alot more than posting my ideas. That being said, I believe there are alot of conspiracies that have occurred in this world - and continue to occur. However, my main focus is on what is happening in this country and 'an evil, lieing, controlling government infringing on our very liberties our ancestors have fought against countless opressive enemies to protect'......

IMHO, nothing else comes close to this as this is what can affect my life the most - is affecting my life as we speak! Pushing my ideas??? I think not as I do not post a tremedous amount. I do not spend my time trying to CONVINCE anyone of anything because of what I stated above.



So I ask this to all the conspiracy believers out there, what is it that you actually hope to achieve from getting subscribers to your belief ?


Please see the beginning of my post....I have not the time to try and convence anyone of anything. I know what is happening in this country today and I am taking care of me and mine - waiting for when I have to take a drastic step.....to protect me and mine.



Ultimately, if the truth was revealed, what would you do ? Would it really satisfy you ? would you rise up in rebellion to overthrow your opressors or would you look for a new theory to follow ?


I believe the truth IS being revealed. I will do what I must to ensure my truth.....my belief in our Constitution and our rights as human beings. You are damn right I will rise up!!! When it is time.....

I never post here to try to get others to adopt my way of thinking. My way of thinking is my truth - as it is with everyone. There are those whom I agree with. But, it is not necessary for me to get others to see things as I do. The truth WILL be revealed. And, when the time comes, I will make the necessary changes that need to be made so I can adapt to the lifestyle needed for me (and mine) to survive.

That means what it means.......I do not have time to go around looking for new conspiracies. There are enough already to keep one amused for a life time.


With the above being said, know that I will disappear and gather with those who feel the same way I do. I will do without in order to be able to 'disappear' and FIGHT for my freedoms and the freedoms of all who are American! If it means I end up dying - so be it. But I will NOT surcome to anyone's will and will only acknowledge the rights granted me in our Constitution and granted me by the God of my understanding.

Hope that answers your questions...........








[edit on 7/19/2009 by Champagne]



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 09:08 PM
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A conspiracy theorists doesn't have to overthrow a government to qualify as actually doing something.

Most of us change the way we live. We change our financials to support ourselves and not the big banks. We don't recieve dangerous vaccines. We don't blindly accept what the government says to be true.

The internet serves as a resource for information we can't get anywhere else. I can research vaccines in textbooks, but I used the internet to find out what happened as a result of the 1976 flu scare.

Each day is about survival. Living a long and healty life is my responsibility, not the governments or societies. I use the internent, including conspiracy websites to make more informed decisions.

I doubt any of these members believe all conspiracies. We believe based on facts and our own instinct.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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sorry for the duplicate, computer

[edit on 19-7-2009 by BenIndaSun]



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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tuck your head between your knees and kiss your arse goodbye.

also remember that when you see then they see you....take from that what you will....



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by Discotech
 


As much as I'm not particularly fond of the tone of the OP, you raise an excellent and extremely relevant point.

A short answer, I suppose, would be that those who recognize what is going on right now, or at least recognize that we need to truly find out what is going on right now, need to group together and attempt to form some sort of collective response. Everyone just "takin' care of me an' mine" is a tyrant's wet dream since they can easily pick us off one at a time or even turn us against each other over ridiculous minutiae which doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things (such as all the squabbling in the 9/11 truth movement - we already know that the official story is a lie, let's save the point by point bickering for after we apprehend those involved and then we can actually begin work on establishing the precise series of events involved).

However, at the same time, discussing things on boards like this can only go so far, only so many will be swayed and/or even reached this way. Further, just as the governments of the world have adapted to mass protests of the type which were actually somewhat effective in the 60's/70's by traininbg riot cops, developing "less than lethal" weapons of all sorts, cordoning off "free speech zones", etc etc, so will any threatened group adapt to internet movements and the like.

Unfortunately, since economic justice is not a very important cause for many people, things such as lawsuits, etc are next to impossible for many people simply because they cannot financially afford to exercise their "freedoms". Add to that all the institutional BS which renders most court cases challenging the government on real issues pointless (such as secrecy, destruction of records, judges trained and paid by state, etc).

What needs to happen is a multifaceted "grassroots" (gawd I hate that term) movement based simply on basic inalienable human rights for all and democracy. Simply put, we currently have neither of those, and we should all be able to agree on this basis. Once we've actually regained control of our own lives (you know, government for the people by the people?) then we can argue about the currently less immediate issues, such as how free should the "free market" be, or should we use a market system at all, etc) which at that point then actually would be relevant to be debated.

As much as we might hate each other's philosophies, religious beliefs, etc etc etc, we need to think long and hard about who our real enemy is. The only way to overcome divide & conquer is to reject the false dichotomies on different issues which are presented to us and unite as "free" people, or rather people who wish to become free.

Don't worry, there will be TONS of time for flame wars and trolling after we regain control...



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by Discotech
And that question is... Ok I believe, now what do you want from me ?


...what ya got?... lmao, jk... i dont want anything from you and, with the exception of those selling merchandise, i doubt anyone else on this site does either...



And that is the ultimate question,


...its a good conversation starter but i dont think it qualifies as "the ultimate question"...




all these conspiracy theories suggest an evil, lieing, controlling government infringing on our very liberties our ancestors have fought against countless opressive enemies to protect and yet the best they can do is post their ideas on the internet ?


...presumptious often?... how do you know what other posters do in addition to posting here?... got a crystal ball?... if so, i'd be most appreciative if you could pick some lottery numbers for me...




This thread isn't a flame or a dig at any of you who subscribe to these theories it's more to find out your motivations behind believing and questioning why you're happy to sit at computer arguing about impending doom but don't seem happy to do anything to prevent it


...that part is kinda like "i dont mean to offend but blah, blah, blah"... do you know why people say that phrase?... because they intend to be offensive and want to take away the right to be offended from those they are about to offend...


...but anyways, to answer your lengthy but thinly veiled question: i enjoy message boards - thats my reason for being here... not everyone argues about impending doom... not everyone is into conspiracy theories either... there could be some posters who truly believe their posts are extremely valuable and that the readers would be left in the dark without them but, ahem, they have issues they should discuss with a shrink... i think most posters are just regular folks sharing info... sure, theres some who enjoy debating and some who dont know the difference between arguing and debating... thats just life and you can find examples of the same down at your local pub or church or city hall...



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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On that note, just throwin' a couple ideas out there...

Organizing some form of general strike would certainly get their attention mighty fast. Martin Luther King Jr. was assasinated because of his radical idea of marching 1/2 a million poor people into Washington DC to camp out there for 3 months or more... as long as it would take to finally get some action on civil rights and economic justice for minorities. If, for instance, we could pull off a minimum-wage strike (ie: everyone making minimum wage refusing to work) the country would grind to a halt, and so would its ridiculous economy (which happens to be the source of at least half of all of society's problems - unemployment, poverty, homelessness, lack of health care, drug abuse, etc etc etc). Such a minimum wage strike would essentially call the "elite's" bluff, since their control is primarily through the money /wage-slave system.

Just some fuel for the fire...



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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Governments have always lied, manipulated, robbed, etc. They can. Most of the time, they've gotten away with it.

Imagine living in the days when the window-tax was imposed. People were outraged. Most just boarded up most of their windows. Their family members sometimes died or got sick as consequence. But people still had to earn their bread and keep a roof over their heads. Exploitation and injustice are part and parcel of the human condition and most accept that.

These days, with the technology available to governments, radicals can be removed from the general population very swiftly. It serves as example to the rest, who afterwards keep their heads down and mouths shut -- look at China for example.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...its a good conversation starter but i dont think it qualifies as "the ultimate question"...



I have to disagree with you, so you get a conspiracy theory and everyone agrees with you, then what happens ? Everyone goes back to their mundane lives without doing anything about it ?

Basically all I see with these theories is alot of people agreeing how their government is evil and corrupt but they stand by and do nothing, it's as if they don't actually believe and just "want" to believe. Or they're too scared to do anything, just seems bizarre to me that they will argue how they are correct and everyone who doesn't subscribe to their theory are just sheeple or living in the dark yet they are not doing anything to stop it from happening.

It's actually funny, how pretty much everyone who believes is happy to wait for it to happen when it might possibly be too late to do anything before actually doing anything to prevent it. You'd think we would have learned our lesson from the 30's and 40's allowing the Nazi's to get into power and slaughter millions of innocent people in their death camps but apparantly just as then, most people would rather wait to see what happens before stopping it from happening.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Discotech

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...its a good conversation starter but i dont think it qualifies as "the ultimate question"...



I have to disagree with you, so you get a conspiracy theory and everyone agrees with you, then what happens ? Everyone goes back to their mundane lives without doing anything about it ?



...i previously asked you how you know what people do offline but you chose to ignore the question - so i'll give you the answer... you are being presumptious by stating that other posters have mundane lives and that they are not actively promoting their agenda offline...




Basically all I see with these theories is alot of people agreeing how their government is evil and corrupt but they stand by and do nothing, it's as if they don't actually believe and just "want" to believe. Or they're too scared to do anything, just seems bizarre to me that they will argue how they are correct and everyone who doesn't subscribe to their theory are just sheeple or living in the dark yet they are not doing anything to stop it from happening.


...lets put the shoes on your feet... are you standing on street corners with a sign that says "practice what you preach" or are you writing letters to your local authorities (or newspapers) about things that need attention in your community or are you giving seminars to teach people how to be politically active?...

...if you are not physically active yourself, then you are just as guilty as those you are complaining about... if you are physically active in promoting agendas you deem valuable, why are you so opposed to others doing the same?...

...i think the ultimate question for this thread is "do you have a mirror?"...



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...lets put the shoes on your feet... are you standing on street corners with a sign that says "practice what you preach" or are you writing letters to your local authorities (or newspapers) about things that need attention in your community or are you giving seminars to teach people how to be politically active?...

...if you are not physically active yourself, then you are just as guilty as those you are complaining about... if you are physically active in promoting agendas you deem valuable, why are you so opposed to others doing the same?...

...i think the ultimate question for this thread is "do you have a mirror?"...


Why would I be doing this when I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories ?

If there was something I didn't agree with and cared enough about it, I'd be out there trying to get people aware and with enough followers doing something about it. But there's not so I'm not, don't try and make this into a "you're a hypocrit" thread because I'm far from being hypocritical by asking the question to those who have different belief subscriptions than myself

As for my assumptions, I see nothing in the media or with my own eyes about marches against the powers that be or miltias forming against so called tyrannical opressors so I am right in my assumptions to assume they are doing but beating a dead horse and talking as I have nothing else to go off.

However we can turn the shoe the other way and ask, how can they assume there is going to be an NWO or Roswell Conspiracy or Government contrived 9/11 when all they have to go off is circumstancial evidence and chinese whispers.

Let's delve a little deeper though shall, it's been 8 years since 9/11, 8 years the conspiracy theorists have been harping on about it being a calculated plan by the government to fool us all, 8 years.... And what has been done about it ? Apart from plenty of walls of text, absolutely nothing, I don't know about you but if I thought my government was killing my own countrymen in order to concoct lies and decieve us all I would be getting the hell out of dodge or attempting to topple said evil tyrannical government but as far as I can see there is no evidence to suggest anyone is doing either (unless of the "agents of doom" have got to them before they had a chance to do something but that's a whole other can o' worms).

The reality is though (and probably hits a nerve for quite few) that they want to believe these theories, it adds abit of excitement to an otherwise boring life of SSDD, but they want to see it come to fruition before they do anything to be sure what they believe is actually true, because they'd be in a hell of alot of trouble if they rose up against the government and found out in the end they were wrong...



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by Discotech
As for my assumptions, I see nothing in the media or with my own eyes about marches against the powers that be or miltias forming against so called tyrannical opressors so I am right in my assumptions to assume they are doing but beating a dead horse and talking as I have nothing else to go off.

The reality is though (and probably hits a nerve for quite few) that they want to believe these theories, it adds abit of excitement to an otherwise boring life of SSDD, but they want to see it come to fruition before they do anything to be sure what they believe is actually true, because they'd be in a hell of alot of trouble if they rose up against the government and found out in the end they were wrong...


As much as I feel you ask a rather important (though presumptuous) question in the OP, I must disagree with you here.

Perhaps you have not paid enough attention to what is going on since there have been massive protests and rallies around the world, which have (for the most part) only been growing in size and intensity since 9/11. So to say that people are just chatting in forums and going on about their lives is simply untrue (at least for many people).

However, I would of course agree that much more needs to be done, especially since the governments of the world have thoroughly adapted to the mass protest phenomenon to the point where they essentially accomplish nothing other than to serve as a get together and place to exchange info (kinda like a message board).

And the second paragraph I have quoted there just serves to highlight your ignorance of the reality we live in. The fact of the matter is that anyone who "rises up" will be in a hell of a lot of trouble whether they are right or wrong. What needs to happen is for a simple basis that all can agree on to be formed so that action taken can be collective. Otherwise those who stand to lose from the people exercising their rights can just pick us off one at a time.

"United we stand, divided we fall." (source?)



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by dangerouslogic
"United we stand, divided we fall." (source?)



...google is the coolest tool... sources for that phrase are: Aesop - John Dickinson - Patrick Henry - Isaac Shelby - a commonly used political phrase used to garner support within India during its struggle for independence from the British Empire - also used by Ulster loyalists and can be seen in some loyalist Northern Irish murals...

en.wikipedia.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink">United we stand. Divided we fall.


...ps: one day i'll figure out how to post a link without extra garbage, lol...


[edit on 7/20/09 by Wyn Hawks]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 04:07 AM
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Johnny Appleseed Come Lately here with my $0.02.

The time has come to plant food bearing plants EVERYWHERE. It's the most radical and revolutionary thing you can do. Why? Because people are working 9-5 to pay for groceries because they can't go pick food out of a garden that no one planted.

Chop chop! Time's a wastin'!

If money is debt and debt is slavery and people are working for money to buy food from men in business suits who don't know how to grow food what's wrong with that picture? Do you see how feeding people frees people?



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 05:26 AM
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All you can do is just wake the hell up for yourself. the ptb have mind control techs that they use so easily to control people as people do not know themselves.




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