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U.S. Condemns Video of Captured G.I.

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posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by Ha`la`tha
Because the people whom hold prisoners over there are not in anyway concerned if they treat their captives inhumanely. They will cut their heads off without mercy, and yet the person to whom I replied makes a comparison to how the US treat their captives.


I've seen some pictures of US detention camps that seem dehumanisingly cold and heartless, to me.

And yet, you did not refute what he said, you merely pointed at the enemy and said "they did it first!"


Originally posted by Ha`la`tha
So do comments such as yours, in one breath claiming you don't care about this person and calling him stupid, then in another stating you don't hate them.

You would care if it was your brother, father or son.


My duplicity is remarkable, I'll agree.



Originally posted by Ha`la`thaA 22 year old Aussie just got killed over there in an IED. He should NEVER have been there. I do NOT for one moment blame him, I blame the bloody ignorant governments that do this to OUR kids. Yet you and the person I replied to, and others in this thread, show contempt, even a mocking sneer at their fate.


Am I? My goodness, you've really jumped in with both feet here!

I did not mock the captured soldier who was silly enough to get himself captured due to whatever desires compelled him to leave his camp. And even if I did, he is an invading soldier, and so he deserves what he gets. How many lives has that man ended? Do you know? Of course not. He is a soldier, a man trained to kill. He is not an innocent.

Who is this mysterious "22 year old Aussie"? It's not Good Ol' Brucie, is it? My old mate I used to have a shrimp on the barbie with? Or is it a 22 year old trained Australian sniper, a soldier in the invading army, with 32 confirmed kills to his name?


Originally posted by Ha`la`thaWhat WE do is nothing compared to what they do. And they do it not under duress, but because they hate our way of life.


Yeah, I'm sure a poor-assed Afghan tribesman who doesn't even have electricity knows plenty about your way of life. Don't believe the hype.


Originally posted by Ha`la`thaPeople go on about "We arent invited there, we deserve it..." as some sort of justification for how they hold our lives in disrespect.


If there was an enemy army occupying your country, destroying your homes, schools, hospitals etc, and killing your friends and family, can you really tell me you wouldn't want to kill a few of them in return, when you got your hands on them?


Originally posted by Ha`la`thaSo anyone, even a tourist who ventures there, as was Shosei koda, is kidnapped and beheaded on a US flag by these people, is what you ultimately condone, while ignoring that it is these people who are barbairc in their beliefs.

Or Eugene Armstrong, a non-combatant, along with a plethora of civilians captured and killed -


Strangely, occupied warzones don't make good holiday destinations. If your country has made the bed, you lie in it.

And don't go putting words into my mouth. I don't condone the killing of anyone, ever, unlike you, who seems to condone the killing of "terrorists".

What I do think is know your enemy, know what they will do and know what you can do. If you are a non-combatant, stay out of a warzone. Common sense, IMO.



Originally posted by Ha`la`thaSo I get a bit irked when people bleat on about waterboarding and humiliation of suspected terrorists when justifying the capture and potential murder or people who in any other time, you would be begging to help you.


Note "suspected" here, yeah? As in, "no proof until we force a confession".




posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by MR BOB
reply to post by jeasahtheseer
 


wow, sorry to hear that. you came to the wrong place for not arguing with people.

you can say hi to someone, and you are a Cia agent/disinfo agent/whatever. its crazy here.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by MR BOB]


I know man. I love this website though. Sometiems I just say stuff that I cant back up. I could back it up if my brain worked right. To bad I didnt know of ATS a couple years ago!



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by MR BOB
reply to post by jeasahtheseer
 


wow, sorry to hear that. you came to the wrong place for not arguing with people.

you can say hi to someone, and you are a Cia agent/disinfo agent/whatever. its crazy here.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by MR BOB]



Hi Mr. Bob




posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
I know man. I love this website though. Sometiems I just say stuff that I cant back up. I could back it up if my brain worked right. To bad I didnt know of ATS a couple years ago!


I have read all your posts so far, your heated and apologetic ones, what i have come to understand through the posts within this thread is that your are a man of beliefs who stands by them no matter what the outcome but at the same time evaluating the course of outcome.

You come across as well balanced person who says what he means and means what he says.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by tristar

Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
I know man. I love this website though. Sometiems I just say stuff that I cant back up. I could back it up if my brain worked right. To bad I didnt know of ATS a couple years ago!


I have read all your posts so far, your heated and apologetic ones, what i have come to understand through the posts within this thread is that your are a man of beliefs who stands by them no matter what the outcome but at the same time evaluating the course of outcome.

You come across as well balanced person who says what he means and means what he says.


Yeah I atleast attempt to see peoples viewpoints. Sometimes though I am pretty much forced to shut up cause literally cant figure out how to respond! Couple years ago I could intelligently debate this stuff forever. I'll never be able to defend myself ever again really when people debate with me, and it sucks!



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
you make me sick. You people care about middle easterners more than your own.


It is human nature to care about everyone, both close to home and far overseas. A human being's proximity to you shouldn't make his life any more valuable.


Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
I've been over there, these people hate us.

They hate who?
A group of people with guns who invaded their country?

People hating invaders?
OMGGGGG what a surprise!!!!!!!

Let's teach them by example
If Russia or China invades us, let's welcome them with open arms.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by jeasahtheseer
 


I am very sorry about your brain damage. I really am. But that does not make your views easy to deal with; it takes two sides to argue, and if you cannot respond in a way that tends to validate your opinions, what is the use?It would be like me showing up for the Boston marathon with my bad back and advanced age and wanting to run the race...except all the people are supposed to ignore my condition and limitations and just pretend that I am in fact a participant.

Articulation is a requisite for intelligent and meaningful repartee', and I hope that you can get your feelings and beliefs written out so we can respond fully and give you the consideration you deserve as a member here. Until then please realize that it is difficult to bring you in as a serious commentator until you are so able.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by jeasahtheseer
 


I would not worry too much about not being able to defend yourself against any attacks, as you will always have someone around to defend or understand your point of view. It only requires patience.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
you make me sick. You people care about middle easterners more than your own.


It is human nature to care about everyone, both close to home and far overseas. A human being's proximity to you shouldn't make his life any more valuable.


Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
I've been over there, these people hate us.

They hate who?
A group of people with guns who invaded their country?

People hating invaders?
OMGGGGG what a surprise!!!!!!!

Let's teach them by example
If Russia or China invades us, let's welcome them with open arms.


No they hate people who arent islamic. These extremists people arent innocent.

Please read the few posts above yours... I'm literally unable to debate with you guys because I have brain damage from being shot....

I dont even know why I keep responding..

I'm not responding anymore. Debate with the people who are able to. Its unfair to debate with me, as I cant defend myself.

There are others in this thread who have my viewpoints.. I'm gonna stay on the sidelines from now on.

(and this isnt a cop out, if you guys dont believe me I'll post my medical papers, although its none of your business)

Peace.



[edit on 20-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Without taking any sides on this thread i should point out that while in a hot spot in the 90's i was looked at with great caution when conducting in depth analysis of key points to acquire. Only when you move up the ranks and the concept of religion or ideology is disregarded, then the evaluation is based on actions taken with a multiple outcomes both negative and positive.

This GI's clumsiness has put more at stake than is openly being discussed, if they decide to treat him as an american flag of ideology then i fear that we may have just seen his last live images. It is a delicate situation and keep in mind he is not only representing the U.S. but a group of nations. So if the outcome is a negative one then that defiance is directed to all nations who are active either as military personal or as military support. That alone feeds the less informative and intelligent people to conduct even more random attacks with horrific outcomes, usually to innocent people going about their daily lives.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by richierich
reply to post by jeasahtheseer
 


I am very sorry about your brain damage. I really am. But that does not make your views easy to deal with; it takes two sides to argue, and if you cannot respond in a way that tends to validate your opinions, what is the use?It would be like me showing up for the Boston marathon with my bad back and advanced age and wanting to run the race...except all the people are supposed to ignore my condition and limitations and just pretend that I am in fact a participant.

Articulation is a requisite for intelligent and meaningful repartee', and I hope that you can get your feelings and beliefs written out so we can respond fully and give you the consideration you deserve as a member here. Until then please realize that it is difficult to bring you in as a serious commentator until you are so able.


Just because I cant debate doesnt mean im not entitled to a opinion. This is a free country. I am a human like you. Btw I have big problems with your views just as you do mine. NEITHER of us are right about everything, and I'm man enough to admit that

And dont assume im unintelligent just cause I have brain damage. I can do EVERYTHING you can. Just the part of my brain that works with words and processes info doesnt work right. So I literally CAN NOT form arguments.

Other than that I'm normal. I get up go to work everyday, I have a beautiful wife and a daughter who I support. I live a normal life.

BTW just to type simple posts like this one I have to edit about 20 times. So theres no way in hell ill ever be able post a good argument. Still though I am entitled to a opinion. You have NO IDEA how frustrating it is to not be able to speak your thoughts and not stand up for yourself with words. I cant stand it.

Peace



[edit on 20-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by tristar
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


This GI's clumsiness has put more at stake than is openly being discussed, if they decide to treat him as an american flag of ideology then i fear that we may have just seen his last live images. It is a delicate situation and keep in mind he is not only representing the U.S. but a group of nations. So if the outcome is a negative one then that defiance is directed to all nations who are active either as military personal or as military support. That alone feeds the less informative and intelligent people to conduct even more random attacks with horrific outcomes, usually to innocent people going about their daily lives.


Yes, you make many good points with that response. The soldier will be used as a pariah for the Taliban. I agree it is a very delicate situation. He is representative of all nations involved in Afghanistan. I hope he is released because if he is brutally murdered like has been done in the past, I fear brutal reprisals to civilian population by soldiers over there. This response is only natural and has happened before in the past. So lets hope there is a favorable outcome.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Jakes51]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:23 AM
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Let's face it...

If he wasn't over there, then he wouldn't have been captured.

If he hadn't have lagged behind, he wouldn't have been captured.

If he hadn't have been part of an invasive force, he wouldn't have been captured.

If the US hadn't commited as many atrocities over there, then chances are he wouldn't be beheaded.

All these posters claiming the Afghans hate the US way of life are just foolsih, do you really think they sit around on the internet going 'Hey dude let's take a look at some stupid Americans, aren't they funny, God i hate them so much...'

NO... They presumably dislike you because you are in their country, slaughtering innocents via the dozen all for the control of the opium supply, whilst under the lie that its a war on terrorism or a hunt for Bin laden. What absolute rubbish.

As sad as the video is of this young bloke who has been captured. His death will just further fuel American hatred for the Afghans, and will just make stupid people more stupid.

Sorry for the harsh, biting truth.... But he knew the risks when he took the job.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard
Let's face it...

If he wasn't over there, then he wouldn't have been captured.

If he hadn't have lagged behind, he wouldn't have been captured.

If he hadn't have been part of an invasive force, he wouldn't have been captured.

If the US hadn't commited as many atrocities over there, then chances are he wouldn't be beheaded.

All these posters claiming the Afghans hate the US way of life are just foolsih, do you really think they sit around on the internet going 'Hey dude let's take a look at some stupid Americans, aren't they funny, God i hate them so much...'

NO... They presumably dislike you because you are in their country, slaughtering innocents via the dozen all for the control of the opium supply, whilst under the lie that its a war on terrorism or a hunt for Bin laden. What absolute rubbish.

As sad as the video is of this young bloke who has been captured. His death will just further fuel American hatred for the Afghans, and will just make stupid people more stupid.

Sorry for the harsh, biting truth.... But he knew the risks when he took the job.


excuse me but thats not the truth. I was never in afghanistan but I was in iraq and I killed NO INNOCENTS. HOW DARE YOU assume we just kill innocents. Maybe if these extremist pussies wouldnt hide out in civilian areas no innocents would die. I killed NO INNOCENTS I am not a murderer. The people who blew my sister to 500 pieces while screaming "death to infidels!" sure as hell where though.

We look down on marines who murder innocent children and woman. Believe they get punished by the AND by fellow marines (if you know what I mean, contrary to popular belief we dont take kindly to child killers...etc) . We arent animals. I would NEVER hurt a child or women or innocent man.

These people dont behead us just cause we are in their countries, thats absurd. You know nothing. BTW its not just the us I'm pretty sure you guys still got troops there.

I'm done with yall.

Bye.



[edit on 20-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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Don't twist my words...

I never said you ONLY kill innocents, but i said innocents get killed.

It's a war, if you can deal with the fact that innocents get killed in a war, then deal with the fact that one marine has been captured by the enemy.

If you can't deal with either then you are a hypocrite.

Or are Afghan lives worth far less to an American?



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard
Don't twist my words...

I never said you ONLY kill innocents, but i said innocents get killed.

It's a war, if you can deal with the fact that innocents get killed in a war, then deal with the fact that one marine has been captured by the enemy.

If you can't deal with either then you are a hypocrite.

Or are Afghan lives worth far less to an American?


Not arguing with you. This is stupid. I keep getting draged into these debates. Face it, you arent right about everything and neither am I, I'm man enough to admit that. Can we atleast agree on that?

Thats about all I can say since I literally dont have the ability to debate (read my few posts above yours and youll see why)

To be honest NONE of us truly know whats goin on in this world.

This always happens.. I post my one argument, you guys respond... Then I;m literally unable to formulate any other argument! And that doesnt mean you proved me wrong. I'm literally mentally unable to debate!

Peace! (and I mean that)



[edit on 20-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:38 AM
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Ok fair enough. I value your opinion, and respect your thoughts.

Peace



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard
Ok fair enough. I value your opinion, and respect your thoughts.

Peace


I value your opinion too, sir. I say lets all try to be civil with these debates from now on (not sayng ive been civil I've been far from it, but so have others, I will attempt to be more from now on). I know I havent been to understanding of other opinions but I'm seriously REALLY trying!

Peace!



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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I don't know why I'm even going to bother but I'll go ahead and throw my two cents in.

I'm pretty sure we can all agree we are all human regardless of sex, race, religion, etc. And I'm pretty sure we can all agree that the vast majority of normal everyday people who are all part of this human race abhor violence against our countrymen, neighbors, family, and friends.

It's all a matter of perception.

It's terrible that this man has been captured. He must be terrified and his family must be beside themselves with worry. I hope he comes home safely. He actually is from Hailey, ID and it's all over the news here (I'm in Boise).

Now I don't "love" middle easterners more than my own countrymen. But I think we can all take a moment to REALLY ponder the hypocrisy going on here. On the news last night, one of the men from his base said that him being displayed on video like that was a violation of international law. Really? But you guys don't have a problem when WE break international law. Why? Just because "they hate us". Guess what, we hate them (or at least that seems to be the main consensus) too. Does it make it anymore right? Love thine enemies. Treating your enemies with respect regardless of their hatred toward you is the utmost way you can prove YOUR HUMANITY to the rest of the world.

The middle easterners have seen us interfer in their lives for decades causing madness and mayhem. We even backed up Sadam Hussein at one point but as soon as we had nothing to gain from him anymore we started blowing up his country and everyone in it. So, yeah, they hate us. They capture our soldiers and kill them.

We hate them. We capture their soldiers and kill them.

But we're all human and we all deserve to be treated as such regardless of deeds because when we start sinking to the level of the enemy all of humanity suffers and NOTHING ever gets resolved. It will keep going and going because one side will keep reacting to the atrocities that were committed by the other side but one side will feel more justified in their actions because the other side did something that "deserved" a reaction. And the cycle will continue.

Why do you think we were taught to tun the other cheek??? Because as soon as SOMEONE stops reacting--it is the beginning of the end of the problem. Sure, the other side can keep striking but as long as you only defend yourself, eventually, the enemy will see that there's no point. You're not going to go on the offensive and that's what they want because it makes them feel justified in their actions. Why? Because they know what they are doing is wrong but as soon as they can illicit a response from you that is anything other than self defense, they've brought you down to their level and the GAME IS ON. Otherwise, they are just a bunch of a-holes acting like little children if you "turn the other cheek".

So once again, we can keep bickering about how "they hate us though" but we also need to remember that we have been the culprits in sponsoring the very dictators that have made their lives a living hell.

Is either side more justified than the other. NO! But I would much rather we be the side to finally put a damn end to it by turning the other cheek and showing that we are on the side of the greater good for humanity. but as long as people keep justifying our actions and being appalled at their reactions, thereby calling for an responsive reaction which will again get them to have a reaction that will appall us, it's NEVER GOING TO END.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 11:54 AM
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My thoughts are with this poor guy. Terrible situation.

It really is a shame that either side feels a need to use political pawns.

I come from a family steeped in military tradition, and I have nothing but respect for the men and women who put on a uniform. I cannot always agree with the missions they are given once they don the uniform. Iraq and Afghanistan are two such missions.

I'm a little shocked that there are entries above where the enemy combatants are being dehumanized and painted as hateful extremists, cowards and terrorists. I'm not supporting their ideology, and I'm not supporting their tactics, just opining and using perspective. Perhaps they are just 'soldiers'. Their ideology may seem alien to some, but couldn't they also be confused by the ideology of the US government?
A well-oil military machine, with all the latest technology and weapons coming up your street would be a tough opponent. How would you face them? Would you stand your ground and face them head on? Would you use guerrilla tactics?
This is exactly what the revolutionary army did against the British.
Why didn't they see the British as saviors? They had all the might, the technology, the culture.... No? So there were a number of things the revolutionary army (not a professional army, just combatants fighting for their way of life) didn't agree with/want.
Now the US is "The British", and the Iraqis/Afgans are the "Colonies."
I know it's not a direct comparison, but the principle remains. If you are fighting for what you believe and hold dear, you will fight 'dirty.'

Again, I'm not attacking the US Military here.

If the 'British' suddenly invaded your small town for reasons that you probably didn't understand, would you just roll over and hope they opened a fish'n'chip shop? If you found it completely unbearable to have these invaders coming in to your town, would you fight back?
If you would fight back, what tactics would you use?
Would international law affect your decisions?

War sucks. Nobody wins.




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