U.S. Condemns Video of Captured G.I.

Originally posted by tristar
Leaving out the foreign policy which can be questioned over and over, the post is directed to that combatant. He is captured and unless a miracle happens i honestly do not see a positive outcome.

So? Why should I feel sorry for the man sent to occupy a foreign nation? That he is there is entirely his fault. He wasn't drafted. He volunteered to be in the military of an imperialistic nation - one that couldn't possibly be invaded in modern times. He should have expected to be sent to America's latest unwinnable war, surely?

And the fact that he was silly enough to simply walk away from his base and be tricked into his predicament doesn't endear him to me either.

Originally posted by tristarThis comparison between a rich and poor country is and has been happening from the beginning of time. There is no difference, thousands of years ago they fought with stones, today we launch uav's from the other side of the world conducting the exact same principle.

Er, evidence for Neolithic warfare is quite scant really, although it is entirely possible.

My point is there is little honour to be gained when a very large entity attacks a very small entity - the expectation is obviously that the large entity will triumph easily over the small entity.

So when the large entity makes stupid mistakes and events like this soldier being captured happen, why on earth would I suddenly pity that large entity? If a bully was walking towards the bespectacled kid with the intention of punching him in the face, and then the bespectacled kid kicked him in the shin and ran off, which one would you root for? The bully?

Originally posted by tristarTo dominate the human race is an inbuilt mechanism, you cannot simply flip the switch and do away with it. Its our nature. Every empire has conducted exactly the same thing which the U.S. is now doing, why should they be called evil or un holly. ?

I don't recall contesting this, nor calling empire evil or unholy. I'm simply saying we call a fish a fish and look at things as they really are. If your morals suddenly kick in and you start thinking what you are doing is wrong, that's your judgement, not mine.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

Originally posted by tristar
Leaving out the foreign policy which can be questioned over and over, the post is directed to that combatant. He is captured and unless a miracle happens i honestly do not see a positive outcome.

So? Why should I feel sorry for the man sent to occupy a foreign nation? That he is there is entirely his fault. He wasn't drafted. He volunteered to be in the military of an imperialistic nation - one that couldn't possibly be invaded in modern times. He should have expected to be sent to America's latest unwinnable war, surely?

And the fact that he was silly enough to simply walk away from his base and be tricked into his predicament doesn't endear him to me either.

Let me put it to you this way, every person has a belief principle, when a person believes that his contribution could change the outcome is when he becomes a volunteer. Myself having been a volunteer for many hot spots have come across soldiers and mercs from all walks of life, some do it for the money and there are those how do it for the principle. They do stand out and although some may oppose any participation in any future war are those exact people i would have by my side in any hot spot. They are more focussed and clear minded when shtf.

I have also seen young and experienced soldiers fall into "traps" often with deadly outcomes. When one decides to defend his principles is when one begins his journey into life, as the saying goes "war is hell"

Originally posted by tristarTo dominate the human race is an inbuilt mechanism, you cannot simply flip the switch and do away with it. Its our nature. Every empire has conducted exactly the same thing which the U.S. is now doing, why should they be called evil or un holly. ?

I don't recall contesting this, nor calling empire evil or unholy. I'm simply saying we call a fish a fish and look at things as they really are. If your morals suddenly kick in and you start thinking what you are doing is wrong, that's your judgement, not mine.

I was referring to the section were it was more or less suggested that he brought this upon himself. To denounce war is to suggest one has taken a path of pacifism, to accept war and question the motives of war is suggesting one might become an enemy of the state, to actively take part in a war and then form your own opinion is by far the most valuable suggestion.

Why is this young man cooperating with his captors? All it is doing is making it worse for him in the long run because they know how to manipulate him. What happened to name, rank, and serial number? The facts surrounding his capture are hazy at best. These are the paratrooper, Bowe Bergdahl's own words describing his apprehension by the enemy.

The soldier said the date is July 14. He says he was captured when he lagged behind on a patrol.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Here is an unofficial account of the soldier's capture by the United States from July 2nd.

On July 2, two U.S. officials told the AP the soldier had “just walked off” his base with three Afghans after his shift. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on the record.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Here is what the Taliban had to say about his capture.

On July 6, the Taliban claimed on their Web site that five days earlier “a drunken American soldier had come out of his garrison” and was captured by mujahedeen.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

From what has been shown thus far about how he was captured; it appears that the soldier was reckless and put his unit and battle buddies at risk. Still, I wish he would have shown a little more courage in the midst of his savage captures because statistically his survival is minimal at best. Better to die standing on your feet than on your knees like a dog begging for survival.

That's how I feel about the situation and I can't say what I would do in his precarious situation, but ideally; I would hope I would be as uncooperative as possible. I hope he is rescued or released by his captures unharmed. Right now the Taliban is parading him about like a pariah on the internet and in the media. His submissiveness is only going make things worse for himself.



[edit on 20-7-2009 by Jakes51]

After reading this story more I'm thinking he left the base to go buy dope or screw some girl or something (when I was in Iraq, not alot but some soldiers did this). So he was being reckless. I'm still not gonna sit here and say I dont feel bad for him, thats just evil to say. Shame on you people who say that, you are less than human if you dont feel for this guy. F it I'm not gonna be nice and apoligize to yall like I been doing. I'm PROUD to be a marine. I'm not apoligising for killing these terrorists. And they ARE terrorists. I'm not letting little anti war privleged kids in their nice houses tell me I'm wrong anymore. Hell no.

And I agree with the dude above me,,, he shouldnt just go along with everything his captors tell him to do.

Peace

Edit: edited out some inapropriate things...



[edit on 20-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Originally posted by Kaytagg
I hope they don't waterboard him, or hook electrodes up to his genitals, or make him stand in stress positions for 5 hours, or beat him, or accidentally kill him during "enhanced interrogation," or hold him indefinitely, etc.

No, you see the modus operandi over there from the enemy is to brutally behead their captives.

So you need not stress.

pfft.

reply to post by Ha`la`tha


Why make an angry post, as if the OP had simply made that up? Can you refute his accusations?

It doesn't matter what they do, what matters is what we do.

Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
After reading this story more I'm thinking he left the base to go buy dope or screw some girl or something (when I was in Iraq a lot of soldiers did this). So he was being reckless. I'm still not gonna sit here and say I dont feel bad for him, thats just evil to say.

And I agree with the dude above me,,, he shouldnt just go along with everything his captors tell him to do.

Peace

I feel empathy for the poor guy, but if what you say is true about what soldiers did in Iraq, shame on him. He should have known better and realized that he was in hostile environment and not Daytona Beach during spring break. I understand the stresses these service members endure because I have a brother that did two tours in Iraq one in 2003 during the invasion and another in 2005 during heights of the insurgency as a Navy Corpsman with the Marine Corps. He is still battling his demons from over there and he has been out since 2006.

I was on the a ship in Navy and we bombed the piss out of the Taliban in 2002 but I can't really speak for what happened while in country. Thanks for the accredited incite from your prior experiences.

Peace

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Jakes51]

Originally posted by Jakes51

Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
After reading this story more I'm thinking he left the base to go buy dope or screw some girl or something (when I was in Iraq a lot of soldiers did this). So he was being reckless. I'm still not gonna sit here and say I dont feel bad for him, thats just evil to say.

And I agree with the dude above me,,, he shouldnt just go along with everything his captors tell him to do.

Peace

I feel empathy for the poor guy, but if what you say is true about what soldiers did in Iraq, shame on him. He should have known better and realized that he was in hostile environment and not Daytona Beach during spring break. I understand the stresses these service members endure because I have a brother that did two tours in Iraq one in 2003 during the invasion and another in 2005 during heights of the insurgency as a Navy Corpsman with the Marine Corps. He is still battling his demons from over there and he has been out since 2006.

I was on the a ship in Navy and we bombed the piss out of the Taliban in 2002 but I can't really speak for what happened while in country. Thanks for your accredited incite from your prior experiences.

Peace

Yeah I didnt mean A LOT of soldiers did that stuff, but some did. And if anyones wondering why I get so mad about this stuff its because I've seen war and its horrible I am VERY messed up in the head from being in iraq (literally, I took a bullet in my face, I have permenant brain damage). I just get angry when people talk as if this is us marines fault. We are just soldiers, we have no choice in what wars to fight. I get angry when people sit in their comfortable homes and comment about whats right and wrong in war. They have NO IDEA! I bet I been through more in 26 years of life than yall go through in your whole life.

And I appreciate you and your bros service very much (and my above comments werent aimed at you, btw, just these people who keep telling me I'm wrong. They know nothing about war)

peace


[edit on 20-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

[edit on 20-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

All things true and well, but when in a foreign country not knowing what anyone is talking about were every conversation you hear could be your last, fear does set in and set in with the most realistic outcome, that your life more than likely will end here.

To feel fear is not a coward thing but to deny its existence is a coward notion.

To have an insight on to what this person's mind is going through i feel i should point you or anyone to the direction of Guantanamo. Even the most hardened battle ridden soldiers become submissive. To know that you will not live unless your captures agree to it, is not exactly comparing it to guantanamo since death by beheading was not a factor of a realistic outcome. Who ever entered guantonomo knew that eventually at some point in time they would be released or die in prison, but would not be executed in public. That my humble ats's is the fundamental difference here.

reply to post by Kaytagg

hope they don't waterboard him, or hook electrodes up to his genitals, or make him stand in stress positions for 5 hours, or beat him, or accidentally kill him during "enhanced interrogation," or hold him indefinitely, etc.

Have you been living in a cave the last 8 years. The Taliban/AQ have brutally murdered just about every POW they have captured. The ones who weren't either got away or were rescued.

OMG, standing in a position for 5 hours? Oh the horror!

Originally posted by Wimbly
reply to post by Kaytagg

 

hope they don't waterboard him, or hook electrodes up to his genitals, or make him stand in stress positions for 5 hours, or beat him, or accidentally kill him during "enhanced interrogation," or hold him indefinitely, etc.

Have you been living in a cave the last 8 years. The Taliban/AQ have brutally murdered just about every POW they have captured. The ones who weren't either got away or were rescued.

OMG, standing in a position for 5 hours? Oh the horror!

My thoughts exactly. These people believe all the anti america propaganda these extremists put out and they believe these people are innocent. It disgusts me. Only america viciously tortures and murders, right guys? These muslims dont hate us, how could anyone think they do? THEY LOVE US! The Koran preaches peace! Not death to infidels! (that was all sarcasm)



Bye bye

[edit on 20-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
reply to post by Ha`la`tha

 

Why make an angry post, as if the OP had simply made that up? Can you refute his accusations?

It doesn't matter what they do, what matters is what we do.

Because the people whom hold prisoners over there are not in anyway concerned if they treat their captives inhumanely. They will cut their heads off without mercy, and yet the person to whom I replied makes a comparison to how the US treat their captives.

While I don't agree with this at all, let them settle their own conflicts, I dont care - that attitude prevails all the time and angers me.

So do comments such as yours, in one breath claiming you don't care about this person and calling him stupid, then in another stating you don't hate them.

You would care if it was your brother, father or son.

A 22 year old Aussie just got killed over there in an IED. He should NEVER have been there. I do NOT for one moment blame him, I blame the bloody ignorant governments that do this to OUR kids. Yet you and the person I replied to, and others in this thread, show contempt, even a mocking sneer at their fate.

What WE do is nothing compared to what they do. And they do it not under duress, but because they hate our way of life.

People go on about "We arent invited there, we deserve it..." as some sort of justification for how they hold our lives in disrespect.

So anyone, even a tourist who ventures there, as was Shosei koda, is kidnapped and beheaded on a US flag by these people, is what you ultimately condone, while ignoring that it is these people who are barbairc in their beliefs.

Or Eugene Armstrong, a non-combatant, along with a plethora of civilians captured and killed -

en.wikipedia.org...

So I get a bit irked when people bleat on about waterboarding and humiliation of suspected terrorists when justifying the capture and potential murder or people who in any other time, you would be begging to help you.

reply to post by jeasahtheseer

Only america viciously tortures and murders, right guys? These muslims dont hate us, how could anyone think they do? THEY LOVE US! The Koran preaches peace! Not death to infidels! (that was all sarcasm)

We don't viciously torture or murder! We've had 3 incidents of water boarding the planners of 9/11 in order to stop another attack and we've had a couple other examples of pseudo torture that were more like college hazing rituals. In every case of this happening there have been prosecutions (except for KSM and his buddies of course). We are NOTHING like our enemies. We don't even come closer to the brutality they exact on POWs and non-POWs alike.

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
reply to post by Ha`la`tha

 

Why make an angry post, as if the OP had simply made that up? Can you refute his accusations?

It doesn't matter what they do, what matters is what we do.

Because the people whom hold prisoners over there are not in anyway concerned if they treat their captives inhumanely. They will cut their heads off without mercy, and yet the person to whom I replied makes a comparison to how the US treat their captives.

While I don't agree with this at all, let them settle their own conflicts, I dont care - that attitude prevails all the time and angers me.

So do comments such as yours, in one breath claiming you don't care about this person and calling him stupid, then in another stating you don't hate them.

You would care if it was your brother, father or son.

A 22 year old Aussie just got killed over there in an IED. He should NEVER have been there. I do NOT for one moment blame him, I blame the bloody ignorant governments that do this to OUR kids. Yet you and the person I replied to, and others in this thread, show contempt, even a mocking sneer at their fate.

What WE do is nothing compared to what they do. And they do it not under duress, but because they hate our way of life.

People go on about "We arent invited there, we deserve it..." as some sort of justification for how they hold our lives in disrespect.

So anyone, even a tourist who ventures there, as was Shosei koda, is kidnapped and beheaded on a US flag by these people, is what you ultimately condone, while ignoring that it is these people who are barbairc in their beliefs.

Or Eugene Armstrong, a non-combatant, along with a plethora of civilians captured and killed -

en.wikipedia.org...

So I get a bit irked when people bleat on about waterboarding and humiliation of suspected terrorists when justifying the capture and potential murder or people who in any other time, you would be begging to help you.

Thank you for saying what I've been trying to say all along, I appreciate it. I have brain damage and have trouble with words and making arguments, so most these people just walk all over me and say horrible disrespectful things and I cant do argue back very well. I hate it. Most the time I just go along and eventually agree with these people, because I cant form arguments and its not my fault. Its the bullet that was in my skulls fault. I used to be a VERY articulate guy, thats all gone now. And the thing is I dont actually agree with these people! I just cant figure out how to argue with them. It makes me sick.

I also agree if anything hsppens to these people theyll be running and crying to military types begging for help! And we still help them even though they talk down to us!

Some (not all) Anti war people claim they are good people and humantarians but in my experience they are some of most cruel, uncaring, rude, cold hearted SELFISH people I have EVER had the DISPLEASURE of meeting.. This threads a perfect example of how some of them are.

I have had people tell me Im scum and that I murdered children and innocents. I HAVE never done such things. EVER.

Anyone who show sympathy for the enemy is not my friend.

Peace!


[edit on 20-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

reply to post by Ha`la`tha


Yes, I agree with a lot of what you say, and to crop the US treatment of detainees with the treatment by the insurgents is really stretching it. However, all torture should be ostracized and deemed unacceptable by people of the United States because it is against our values. The whole concept of how we should treat the insurgents is a slippery slope riddled with moral and ethical quagmires. When do the politicians and the left see this war as a real war against savages. You can only shake a stick at a dog so much before it bears it's teeth and snaps at you. The United States could be that dog?

I'll quote General William Tecumsah Sherman, "War is hell." General Sherman, in some academic circles, is a considered a war criminal when he rampaged through the south destroying Atlanta and other southern cities in his march to the sea. However, I thought warfare was a means to demoralize the enemy at all costs and get them to either give up or surrender? His scorched earth policy may have been acceptable to bring the Confederates to the table of surrender much sooner than if it wasn't undertaken?

We have a establish some kind of deterrence against their beastly acts. What type of tactics are appropriate I have no idea? However, a lot of thought should be put into it. The ultimate outcome with the captured soldier will most likely be a brutal public execution broadcast over the internet.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Jakes51]

Originally posted by Wimbly
reply to post by jeasahtheseer

 

Only america viciously tortures and murders, right guys? These muslims dont hate us, how could anyone think they do? THEY LOVE US! The Koran preaches peace! Not death to infidels! (that was all sarcasm)

We don't viciously torture or murder! We've had 3 incidents of water boarding the planners of 9/11 in order to stop another attack and we've had a couple other examples of pseudo torture that were more like college hazing rituals. In every case of this happening there have been prosecutions (except for KSM and his buddies of course). We are NOTHING like our enemies. We don't even come closer to the brutality they exact on POWs and non-POWs alike.

I agree.. BTW be ready for all the nine eleven was an inside job people to start attacking you now for that 911 comment. lol.

Peace

[edit on 20-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Originally posted by jeasahtheseer

Originally posted by Kaytagg
I hope they don't waterboard him, or hook electrodes up to his genitals, or make him stand in stress positions for 5 hours, or beat him, or accidentally kill him during "enhanced interrogation," or hold him indefinitely, etc.

you make me sick. You people care about middle easterners more than your own.

I personally care about my own people more than ANY middle eastern person being tortured. I've been over there, these people hate us.

Show some respect, douchebag



[edit on 19-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Unreal. So the HUMAN RACE is split upm into " US" and " THEM", huh? The people who are " Middle Easteners" are subhuman and undeserving of human values, but the people that happened to be born in the USA are superhumans and deserving of all considerations..right?

You are the one who is an instrument for flushing away nastiness...NOt the person who has a shred of sense and human dignity. You are like the people who , like robots, mouth the Fox News nonsense and believe it as if it were true.

The USA has paraded every prisoner we snatched illegally from their nations before the cameras...we have TORTURED innocent women and kids...RAPING kids..MURDERING dozens of people without due process...and you have the nerve to think that OUR soldiers should be given the kid glove treatment after all we have done over there?

We are the guilty ones...WE allowed the Bush cabal to LIE us into the ' wars' for other peoples oil and land....WE are the ones who sat abck while the Cheney traitors committed 9-11 with the Mossad and ISI to jumpstart the PNAC plan...WE are the ones that have killed over a MILLION innocent people in the quest for money and power.

How can WE gripe about someone taking PICTURES of a captured soldier when WE routinely violate human rights as if they didn't exist? Who are WE to get upset when the people we have lied to and invaded under TOTALLY FALSE pretenses fight back?

OUR humans are NO BETTER than ANY humans, and if you think different I will just refer you to Jesus Christ and his teachings about love and truth. Tell Him that you consider geographic location of birth to be the relevant factor in establishing humanity...tell HIM that the people that look different and have different values and history are less than human....tell HIM that you are a member of some exhalted and special group because we are Americans..I have no doubt what He would say.

To defend the OBVIOUS and PROVEN basis ( lies and treachery) for the invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation is OBSCENE...and the people who rush like lemmings to the Limbaugh and Hannity right wing nut job corner to fan the stumbling and lurching hulk of the military/industrial/intelligence/etc. cabals are no better than the people they are demonizing.

So one of OUR soldiers got captured...so what? It happens when you invade nations that are innocent of any wrongdoing against us...and the best you cqan hope for is that the Taliban are more decent and humane than WE are!! If the soldier they captured gets treated like WE treat prisoners...THAT would be a crime and a shame...hopefully the Taliban have more human decency than we do and will not torture, shame, humiliate, strip naked..rape, kill or otherwise commit outrageous and infamous atrocities against our soldier the way we do THEIRS.

Its hell when a little payback comes your way, but thats the nature of the game:

When you treat humans as if they are ' less' than fully human because of where they are or who they are, then YOUR humanity has ceased to be a part of your moral compass, and you are then no better than a soulless, evil, corrupt, twisted and degenerate scum like Dick Cheney and his ilk...and they are the real evil in this world...NOT the people who react to our infamous and illegal occupation.

It is beacuse if this becomes front page stuff in America (wich it is becoming) Then People are going to get too many details on what the Us are going to do about it. and so are the people who captured him.

If they get wind that there is going to be a rescue operation he will be killed.

Originally posted by richierich

Originally posted by jeasahtheseer

Originally posted by Kaytagg
I hope they don't waterboard him, or hook electrodes up to his genitals, or make him stand in stress positions for 5 hours, or beat him, or accidentally kill him during "enhanced interrogation," or hold him indefinitely, etc.

you make me sick. You people care about middle easterners more than your own.

I personally care about my own people more than ANY middle eastern person being tortured. I've been over there, these people hate us.

Show some respect, douchebag



[edit on 19-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Unreal. So the HUMAN RACE is split upm into " US" and " THEM", huh? The people who are " Middle Easteners" are subhuman and undeserving of human values, but the people that happened to be born in the USA are superhumans and deserving of all considerations..right?

You are the one who is an instrument for flushing away nastiness...NOt the person who has a shred of sense and human dignity. You are like the people who , like robots, mouth the Fox News nonsense and believe it as if it were true.

The USA has paraded every prisoner we snatched illegally from their nations before the cameras...we have TORTURED innocent women and kids...RAPING kids..MURDERING dozens of people without due process...and you have the nerve to think that OUR soldiers should be given the kid glove treatment after all we have done over there?

We are the guilty ones...WE allowed the Bush cabal to LIE us into the ' wars' for other peoples oil and land....WE are the ones who sat abck while the Cheney traitors committed 9-11 with the Mossad and ISI to jumpstart the PNAC plan...WE are the ones that have killed over a MILLION innocent people in the quest for money and power.

How can WE gripe about someone taking PICTURES of a captured soldier when WE routinely violate human rights as if they didn't exist? Who are WE to get upset when the people we have lied to and invaded under TOTALLY FALSE pretenses fight back?

OUR humans are NO BETTER than ANY humans, and if you think different I will just refer you to Jesus Christ and his teachings about love and truth. Tell Him that you consider geographic location of birth to be the relevant factor in establishing humanity...tell HIM that the people that look different and have different values and history are less than human....tell HIM that you are a member of some exhalted and special group because we are Americans..I have no doubt what He would say.

To defend the OBVIOUS and PROVEN basis ( lies and treachery) for the invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation is OBSCENE...and the people who rush like lemmings to the Limbaugh and Hannity right wing nut job corner to fan the stumbling and lurching hulk of the military/industrial/intelligence/etc. cabals are no better than the people they are demonizing.

So one of OUR soldiers got captured...so what? It happens when you invade nations that are innocent of any wrongdoing against us...and the best you cqan hope for is that the Taliban are more decent and humane than WE are!! If the soldier they captured gets treated like WE treat prisoners...THAT would be a crime and a shame...hopefully the Taliban have more human decency than we do and will not torture, shame, humiliate, strip naked..rape, kill or otherwise commit outrageous and infamous atrocities against our soldier the way we do THEIRS.

Its hell when a little payback comes your way, but thats the nature of the game:

When you treat humans as if they are ' less' than fully human because of where they are or who they are, then YOUR humanity has ceased to be a part of your moral compass, and you are then no better than a soulless, evil, corrupt, twisted and degenerate scum like Dick Cheney and his ilk...and they are the real evil in this world...NOT the people who react to our infamous and illegal occupation.

I didnt read your post because I am UNABLE to argue with you because I have brain damage. Read my post a few above yours.

heres a quote from the post im talking about-

"Thank you for saying what I've been trying to say all along, I appreciate it. I have brain damage and have trouble with words and making arguments, so most these people just walk all over me and say horrible disrespectful things and I cant do argue back very well. I hate it. Most the time I just go along and eventually agree with these people, because I cant form arguments and its not my fault. Its the bullet that was in my skulls fault. I used to be a VERY articulate guy, thats all gone now."

I'm not looking for sympathy I am just unable to form arguments and defend myself.

However some people in this thread have the same views as me and have said what id say if I could debate.

So im done with this thread.

I will NOT let you walk all over me so I'm not gonna respond.



[edit on 20-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

reply to post by jeasahtheseer


wow, sorry to hear that. you came to the wrong place for not arguing with people.

you can say hi to someone, and you are a Cia agent/disinfo agent/whatever. its crazy here.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by MR BOB]