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The reason Jesus is the only way

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posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 05:09 AM
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I believe in Jesus Christ and his teachings. But i don't believe christianity's words. If Jesus Christ really existed, he said some wonderfull things.

And for some more thought, i give you a link wich, i guess, you allready know

video.google.com...

The first part, according to this thread, is very truethfull, but you don't have to take it as it is. Everyone must do its own research in order to find out the truth about any religion.




posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 05:20 AM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
reply to post by seagull
 


Example:

Lets say that Adolph Hitler at the end realized the error of his ways and suddenly was born again Christian and took Jesus as his lord and savior and repented, truly meaning it.

Would he go to heaven or hell?

Then you have a man that his entire life he never did anything wrong to anyone. For arguments sake, lets say he lived only for good and never committed a sin. Lets say this man raised a family to all be good people, yet he never accepted Jesus even thought he knew all about him.

He just never bought it. He then dies suddenly never believing in Christ.

Would he go to heaven or hell?



Well I'm not saying Jesus is real, but the Christian philosophy is real. Now, I'm not saying it's true. I'm just saying the philosophy itself really does exist. Like we know someone wrote it down even if they were wrong. So, we'll just talk about that.

A lot of people rag on Jesus because it's insulting to say that Jesus is the only way to heaven right? Well, that's assuming that before the concept of Jesus there were lots of ways into heaven.

However, we have to look at what the Jewish people believed before Jesus came. It's not like they used to think there were 21 ways into heaven and then when Jesus popped up and they all went away.

What we need to understand is that before Jesus came the Jews thought there was no way into heaven whatsoever according to their own religion. It just wasn't possible unless you had no sin whatsoever and God took favor over you like Elijah or something. In other words, according to their own beliefs they themselves could not get into heaven. This is regardless of other religions.

They weren't trying to insult other religions. They were trying to find a way for them themselves in their own religion to get to heaven. In other words they weren't saying everybody but us is going to Hell. They were saying everyone is going to Hell, but they really meant death if you look at the translation, not fiery brimstone Hell.

But what the Christians say is that God didn't like that. He wanted to give people a way into heaven when they didn't have one before. So he sent Jesus. Basically making it much easier for us, but everyone gets mad that Jesus is the only way. Well who cares how you get there? Who cares if you have to go with Jesus?

Let me give an analogy. Your town is flooding, but the only way to get out of your town is go across this gigantic raging river. It's possible that someone very very very special like Michael Phelps could swim it, but the waters are so rough that most likely even he couldn't swim across it. In other words, it doesn't matter how "good" of a swimmer you are because even the best of them just aren't capable.

However, a few days ago this scientist did some genetic engineering and created this guy named Jesus. He was super awesome. Even better than Phelps. Not only could he swim across it, but he could walk right on top of it some like some kind of freak. So, this Jesus cat is like hey, look. I'll walk across this river and get a boat and come back and save you guys.

Okay, so Jesus starts to go across this river and gets the boat. While that happens people waiting on him start to fall asleep and others think they're dead. They don't know they're just asleep.

So they start saying, okay Jesus isn't coming back. He's never bringing the boat. He probably wasn't even real. Do you have any evidence a boat even exists? Do you have any evidence the other side of the river even exists? Maybe we're just on an island in the middle of nowhere! Even though when the town was built all the people that wrote down how it was built specifically said it was a river that had another side, a few hours later everyone isn't so sure anymore.


But Jesus is on his way back and getting ready to wake up everyone that is napping. And some people can see him in his boat heading back, but others can't. So, what happens is the people that can see him tell the people that can't that they're blind. The people that can't see Jesus tell the people that can that they're schizophrenic and they're just seeing things and hearing things that aren't real. And now everybody starts to wonder? Is the stupid boat real? Isn't it real? Well there's waves in the water now. He's getting close.

But the non-believers say, well that's just dark enegery and fish in the water. It's a much simpler answer. Nobody KNOWS FOR SURE!

So when they say Jesus is the only way, what they really mean is it's the only logical way assuming the boat is real. You could try be real real real real good and swim across that flooded raging river, but the guy with the freaking boat is almost here but others say he's not.

Hitler could go to heaven. But it depends on what happens when the guy with the boat gets here. When Jesus wakes him up and says COME ON! I GOT THE BOAT! Will Hitler reject him? Will he say if I have to wear that stupid life preserver then I'm not going! I don't like the color of your boat! And you have hippy hair!

The question is, did Hitler prepare himself before he went to sleep? Did he really reject his ways and decide that when the moment came he would put on that preserver? When the guy with the boat comes there won't be much time. You should prepare yourself now. If Hitler killed a whole bunch of people trying to get on the boat will Jesus let him on? Maybe if he's repented for his ways Jesus doesn't have to worry about Hitler killing anyone else once the boat leaves. But if Hitler never changed his ways then maybe Jesus can't take the risk. Maybe it's just too dangerous to take Hitler on the boat??

The guy that had never done anything wrong? If he has no sins upon him? He'll go to heaven too all without Jesus's help if he's a real good swimmer. If not he'd better go with the guy on the boat.

Also, how rude is it to reject a guy risking his life to save yours? Maybe he's not as "good" of a swimmer as we thought perhaps?

But then again, what if there's no boats on the other side of the river?

[edit on 20-7-2009 by tinfoilman]

[edit on 20-7-2009 by tinfoilman]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by octotom
 


You were just complaining that the OP had lumped all Christians into one group. You complained that this isn't fair or truthful, and you're right. Each Christian is unique, different from ever other Christian. i doubt whether any two Christians (or Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.) believe in *exactly* the same things. You can't throw them all together into a single pigeonhole.

The same applies to Jews. You said that "Jews" said something, and quoted a verse from Acts to support your statement. However, it wasn't "Jews"; it was a single Jew, Gamaliel. Is this not also lumping people together?

In fact, when Christians speak about the New Testament, they commonly refer to "the Jews" did this, and "the Jews" did that. In most cases, it wasn't "the Jews", it was the Pharisees and Sadducees. These groups are not "the Jews", any more than a group of Christian leaders is "the Christians".

One of the reasons Jesus came was to talk to the Jews, to offer them hope and comfort, spiritual guidance that the Pharisees no longer offered to their own people. The people who opposed Jesus and arranged for his execution (a *Roman* execution) were Jewish, but not "the Jews". They were parasites living off the people, but not giving them anything in return.

So please - Gamaliel is not "the Jews", any more than you are "the Christians".

[edit on 7/20/2009 by chiron613]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:40 AM
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It's not that Jesus didn't exist, it's that his story was most likely embellished, like every single other myth, and that Jesus was probably a spiritualist, possibly a conspiracy theorist, but most definitely someone who traveled (what was he doing until he was 30? Funny how the bible doesn't mention this) and learned the various religious ideas of his day, most certainly Buddhism, since the message of Jesus and Buddha are very close when it comes to ideas of compassion and good-will towards men. And just like every other myth, Jesus was embellished to be a God or the Son of God, and the church further embellished this by claiming "His" religion is the only religion. Utterly, utterly ridiculous. Why is it that Jesus is the only way, when Hinduism, for example, proclaims "You are That," that you are the Lord of your own Self? As well as Buddhism, which says

"one who is Lord of the mind, in recollected-antecedentness within the mind/will (meditation/samadhi), such a sage guards this supra-normal powers."

Zen teaches that there is no self, and one must find the unity of yin and yang within everything

tantra teaches that one is the immortal, individual soul that must reunited with the eternal love in the universe. The Jewish Cabala teaches the same.

Secret Societies such as the Knights Templar, Gnostics, and Illuminati have their initiates go through a "trial" by which they must overcome obstacles in order to obtain secret knowledge, often of a spiritual nature. At the very end, the initiate learns that the object he was seeking after, "God" is really himself.

Quantum mechanics teaches us that without an observer, reality just doesn't make sense, which is why a quantum object can be in two different places at the same time, depending on what perspective you are looking at it.

All of these teach the same thing: that the individual is important, not the system. The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution even nailed this one. And yet, Christianity teaches us that we are sinners, men of guilt and animal lusts, and we need Jesus, the "only" savior to save us.

For those who say "but that's just the Catholic Church" but what then is the original Christianity you claim to be following? Unless you read ancient Hebrew and avoid the riddled mess that is known as the "Official King James Bible" how will you ever know what Jesus truly said? Without all the inserted propaganda? Do you really trust a book sponsored by a King? Or how about Christianity's origin: do you really trust an Empire that used to throw Christians to the lions, and then accepted it as an official religion? News flash: Rome is not much different from the United States. It wasn't just that Roman emperors were evil but then a good one came around every now and then to promote Christianity. They were all evil, just like in the Catholic Church there are no good popes willing to spread the message to a far reaching world. It's all evil!

At this point, you best be careful in how you respond, because if you say "But the Catholic Church isn't all evil, certainly not the Pope!" Then according to you, your individualized sect located on the corner of Main and 4th, is a good church, not like those evil Catholics, but the Catholics are also good people, especially the Pope. He's holy!

But of course that would make sense to anyone who believes in a religion without actually reading their holy book.

And if you do read the bible, it's most likely you only read the New Testament. If you're an atheist you only read the Old Testament. Me, I like to read it all, especially the line in John where Jesus states "My Father is greater than I." Interesting, since a few pages earlier he also said "I and my father are one," Christians like to use the latter quote to "prove" Jesus and God are the same, ignoring the fact that the former quote clearly states he is not. And no Christian can ignore that Jesus said "have you forsaken me?" Because of course, Jesus then has a



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:44 AM
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reply to post by LoneGunMan
 


I agree one hundred percent with you lonegunman.

What is a trademarked emblem? A cross enclosed in a circle. What can't you buy or sell on the market without that symbol? Nothing except it have the "Mark". Otherwise you must go to the "black" market....

This is the only problem...Jesus is a double edged sword.

Many worship what you are talking about, but the name isn't the meaning, it's the designation. It's the trademark. A name can be trademarked, see Obama, but a will can not.

His name in truth, and I mean true truth or that which is verifiable, is the only way to life. His name when performed is "self existent salvation"...that is what Jesus literally means. To the hebrew he said, "I AM"...same thing.

He is "SELF EXISTENT SALVATION". This is why it is IN HIS NAME you are saved, not by his name. Many say his name. Few do his name. He comes to those who don't know him to those doing truth, be they drunkards or gamblers or prostitutes even killers and people without vice as well. True consists of Good and Bad and too many people get that confused with "Good". False consists of nothing and is vanity...grasping at the wind.

Pharisee means "Religious Separatist". Many Christians who stay away from the secular, would do good to realize Jesus was speaking about them, as the whole body is the temple, not just the ones who say they follow him, but all men women and especially children, because they are the head of the body...always. Children are the work of true faith, because they follow it. They are the works, we are known by and the treasure that can not rust or be eaten by moth. They are called Jacob...that is...heal catcher who grows into Yisrael, that is, "he rules as God". All enemies are placed under his feet, for the living walks over the dead.

Good post lonegunman. Thanks

Peace





[edit on 20-7-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:51 AM
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"revelation" and realizes that this was the PLAN all along.

Hold on a second. Jesus had a revelation on the cross, and realized this was the plan all along? If he was God, why did he have to have a revelation? To the all-knowing forget for a second? And wouldn't he know the plan, since being God, he created it himself?

Only "Catholicism" Christianity falls into this ignorant mindset of a creationist God who occasionally intervenes divinely into the world when it benefits Kings who want to go off to war. Other than that, their entire religious system is a re-hashed myth that Christians unfortunately fall into. If you gain some type of spiritual happiness from Christianity, more power to you, but the general trend is that Christianity is dying, because it's pointless, and it has been around for thousands of years, continuing to be pointless. And in case you forget everything I just said and want to proclaim "but the bible is true!" Ponder this as a recap to today's lesson:

The Baghavad Gita says: "You are the Lord of your Self."
Catholicism says: "Only Jesus is the Lord of your self."

Ouch. And of course, they said this because it's true, because the book they created says it's true, because their God they created says it's true, not simply because this creates the ultimate form of slavery.

Couldn't be, not a religion we know and trust.

The real culprit though is not the Catholic church, it's you! You say you have faith without reason, but that's a lie! There's a reason as to why you believe in Jesus, because you think that through him you can live in heaven. It's so you can cheat death! How absurd. We talk with disgust about the elderly elite watching over their creation, getting injected with their daily dose of ambrosia or somma, cheating death for one more day, when it is the common man amongst us that is doing the same. Everyone wants to cheat death, because we cling so much to life. This is not just a Christian or Catholic issue, it's a human issue. Humans know that if they leave the universe, having no more perception, the universe disappears. Nothingness. That is what we fear the most. It is not monsters or aliens or dragons or werewolves, we fear nothing more than anything else. Which is absurd, because if there were nothing, there'd be nothing to fear. But we also know there'd be no loved ones, no moments of life, no joy, no purpose. And so we cling to our loved ones, in fear that we might lose them, forcing ourselves to believe that that nothingness which is always starring us down doesn't really exist. And in a strange way, it doesn't, because how can nothingness exist? But rather than create some type of lie or myth to tell us we will "transcend" the nothingness and enter into "heaven" why not just tell it like it is: that there is no nothingness, because "nothing" can not exist. And so it is only our fear of nothing that is the thing keeping us down. Once we destroy that, why should we need a savior like Jesus to save us? Or a hero like Hercules to fight our enemies? Why would we need a sage like Buddha to teach us how to manage through life when all the power in the world is held within us?

Humans



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 06:55 AM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 


Great analogy, but I must tell you, you are in the boat.

How does David call him Lord if he is Davids son?



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by ancient_wisdom
 


AWESOME.....



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by ancient_wisdom
 


Until 30 he was soaking up his Judas money...ah the silver years, 30 to be exact....it's after he realized he betrayed himself, being the left hand and the other one in the dish with his consuming the life, that he went away and hung on a tree.

"You shall not consume anything with the life blood still in it"....Blood is meant to be passed on, not consumed, otherwise we say "it is finished" and become the first and the last.

All who see, become the last, that is the first to know the truth. This is the evil done under the sun.

Peace



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by tinfoilman
 


Great analogy, but I must tell you, you are in the boat.

How does David call him Lord if he is Davids son?


It was just an analogy. Don't be surprised if it doesn't quite hold up because the analogy isn't perfect. We'd have to go over the whole book and we just don't have time.

Obviously there is no boat. For example if we're really talking about a boat then in the story I may have to be standing outside of it for the analogy to make sense. If we used something else in the analogy I may have to be standing inside the object for the analogy to make sense. The reader's point of view may also affect where I would have to be standing for the analogy to make sense. It depends on what we're using for the boat.

But in the end it's just an analogy to get started on one basic concept. To really scrutinize the philosophy one would have to go over the entire texts that the philosophy comes from and scrutinize those in total. It's irrelevant if my analogy will hold up or not outside the concept I'm trying to explain though because it simply doesn't address those concepts.

To cover all the concepts such as why Jesus is or is not lord I would have to have an analogy for many more concepts which we don't have time for.

It's a simplified example so of course it will not perfectly hold up even if the Bible does and many people think that even the Bible doesn't hold up. So, if it does not there is of course no hope for my analogy.

EDIT: So if the concept is that I am lord well that may be true, but that is another concept outside the one I was trying to explain.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by tinfoilman]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 07:19 AM
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Sorry - the posting got a bit messed up.


[edit on 20-7-2009 by BetweenMyths]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 07:22 AM
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and how do we gain the power to destroy our fear of nothing?

It's simple. Let's say our little brother comes up to us and tells us he thinks a ghost is in the attic, or a bogey man is in the closet? What do we do? We show him there's no one there! So if we are afraid of nothing, we have to look directly at nothing and realize there's nothing to fear, and more specifically, that since nothing does not exist, we won't ever become annihilated when we die.

and how do you look at nothing?

Not just by closing your eyes, but by also looking within yourself and meditating on this nothingness. So many people are afraid of this nothingness they can not even meditate for a single second. Imagine that, all our lives we are carrying with us this mind, it is what we truly are, and yet, we have never stopped to contemplate the mind's own existence (meditation). When we use our minds to perceive our mind, it appears as if it is a "nothingness." Why? Because the mind is like a camera that sees the world, but if the camera turns around to view itself, it can not see itself, the camera can not film itself. But so long as we are conscious of the fact that we are conscious, we can focus the mind onto that realm, and although we will never see it fully we can become aware that is there.

The reason why we see nothingness when we enter deep states of meditation is because the realm we are trying to look into has no form. It is formless, that is what the mind truly is. But we are no longer operating on the level of the brain, but rather the mind goes down into the realm of the heart and we can feel our own consciousness. At this point, people either lock up and return to the "real world" which is just an illusion, or they continue on to investigate their consciousness. At that point, they feel a pain, and that pain is self-consciousness. Again, many turn back, because if they feel pain, they are taught this is wrong, like touching a hot stove. But this pain is feeling. To feel this pain is to truly know that you are alive. Pain is the best indicator that we are alive. And if we continue on through this pain, we truly lose even our own mind, our separate mind. We enter a state of intense emptiness. And if we then open our mind, and start to return to the world of the senses, we receive a tremendous spiritual light begin to pour into our very being. This light is the highest frequency of the sense world. Whereas the eyes see things as objects, and the ear hears things as sounds, the light is an all-encompassing vision or sense of reality at its highest frequency. This is what we truly are. To see this light is to banish from our mind forever all forms of nihilism, self-pity, fear, and quasi forms of spirituality in which we are taught to seek a God. This Light is God. Verily, there is nothing greater.

But this light, like a sense perception, is fleeting to us. It is hard to stay concentrated in it (meditation) and so we use our minds also to realize the nature of this light, that it is infinite and immortal, and beyond all matter, hence immaterial.

Once we possess this, we can literally transcend our sense world and operate from this higher plane. Spiritual healing can occur, out of body experiences, it is possible to love our enemies or even to sooth our minds from daily problems and frustrations. Essentially, it is the ultimate stress buster. And to think, it has been within our grasp all along, and we don't need to pay a penny to anyone to use it, but simply use our own mind to meditate on our true nature. Yogis have been practicing Yoga for over 10,000 years. And it is still practiced today, albeit by woman as an alternative to exercise, but the seed is still there, ready to be discovered. Something they don't teach in the aerobics classes, is that Yoga means "Union with Brahman (God or the One)."

But getting back to Christianity. Fellow Christians, is it enough that I believe in a Divine, do I also have to believe in Jesus?



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 


Lord is controller. You need no analogy for that. You are the analogy.

You speak right, just thought I'd tell you you were in the boat, you're even driving it.

"How long oh lord till you awake"...

Peace

[edit on 20-7-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 07:32 AM
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and just to defend myself, since I know I will be accused of it, is the notion that meditation is bad because it allows evil spirits to creep into our minds.

It's a little sad that this has to be addressed, but if they insist, I will have to tell them the truth. Only in Christianity do we find people who are afraid of demons, when most children know enough to know they don't exist. So how is it that something which doesn't exist can hurt you or corrupt your way of thinking?

Secondly, whenever you focus on your mind, the "voice in your head" is always you, it's never a spirit, or God, or Jesus. It's just like talking to yourself in your head, is it ever someone else? No, how could it be? It could be sensory data, for instance, a song is playing in your head and you can't seem to shut it off, or you watch a Christian movie and hear the "voice of God" through the heavens (idolizing God by the way, a sin in Christianity), and then this voice clicks on in your head, much like the catchy song on the radio, and you think "it's God talking to me." But it's only your will and no one else. No one can will your will within your mind, just as no one can think for you. But, we can think that someone is thinking for us, and think that something is influencing us. So in short, there are no demons in meditation, it is simply the fluctuation between what we are comfortable with (something "good") and what we are uncomfortable with (something "bad"). Humans have the ultimate potential to be either good or bad. That is human nature. And in a way human nature is simply a part of nature's duality, so that the human potential of good and evil will always exist in some form in nature. It is only for the truly wise humans to go the route of goodness and transcend their petty mortal selves, and only the way of the ignorant to be killed off by their own fear they produce within themselves.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by tinfoilman
 


Lord is controller. You need know analogy for that. You are the analogy.

You speak right, just thought I'd tell you you were in the boat, you're even driving it.

"How long oh lord till you awake"...

Peace


Yes if that's the case I would definitely need another story for that. It's going to be a while before I awake apparently because I'll have to think this idea of yours over.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 07:57 AM
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Most of what passes for religion is just an income, marketing scam. Christianity does not, by any means, have a monopoly. The measure, is what avenue you as an individual really have to your salvation. What results do you get with the path you are on. Everything in the world is a deception and misdirection from your real spiritual welfare. There's no difference from a happy Christian or Buddhist soaking up a good feeling in their heart and mind and an alcoholic blissing out in the gutter or an atheist or evolutionist content with their intellectual, philosophical egotism. What's real is real and what's pretend is pretend. Real salvation is unpleasant to the mind and proves itself real by the changes one undergoes and the associations made available and the inner experience, no less real then walking to the grocery store.

There are not a thousands of valid paths, or a thousands of truths, there are thousands of lies and deceptions.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 08:16 AM
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I just want to say "well put" Religion and spirituality don't fit as far as I'm concerned.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by tinfoilman

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by tinfoilman
 


Lord is controller. You need know analogy for that. You are the analogy.

You speak right, just thought I'd tell you you were in the boat, you're even driving it.

"How long oh lord till you awake"...

Peace


Yes if that's the case I would definitely need another story for that. It's going to be a while before I awake apparently because I'll have to think this idea of yours over.


Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

How much time you got?



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by Simon_Boudreaux
 



God's love for humanity? Have you not seen the state of the world? Would you let your children act the way we do?

Have you ever heard of the fall? It is the fall of man that has led the world to the state that it's in. Did you know that the Bible says that Satan is currently the ruler of the world? Despite this God can still have love for humanity.


You was afraid you wouldn't get into heaven(a place no one even knows exist) by your own actions,

No, I knew I wouldn't get to heaven on my own.


( an entity no one even knows exist)

An entity that no one knows doesn't exist either. But, I know that God exists because I've experienced him. Something that you wouldn't understand since you're not a believer.


Do you believe god or Jesus makes your decisions for you? That kind of throws the whole free will idea out the window doesn't it.

No, I make my decisions myself. I have free-will. But, my decisions need to be consistent with what God would have. Just as a child makes their decisions, when they're young, based on what their parents want.


Do you believe god would want you wasting your life worrying about whether everything you do is going to piss him off or not? Or would he want you to enjoy life?

God does want us to enjoy our lives. I don't worry about whether or not the things I do make him mad because I stray away from things that would make him mad and don't partake in them. I know how God wants me to live, and I follow that. That said, my life is no different than yours most likely. When I do sin, I repent of it because I know that it pains him to see one of his children stray off the path.


Do you really believe that all you have to do is repent all your sins(god's rules you broke) on your deathbed and all is forgiven and you're taken into god's embrace?

Being a Christian is more than just repenting of your sins. There are plenty of people who repented and asked God for the forgiveness of their sin on their death bed that are going to go to hell come the final judgment. One needs to accept Christ's atoning sacrifice to make them right with God so that they can enter heaven.


If by chance there is a god and I'm judged not worthy to be in his presence just because I didn't worship him or his son instead of by the life I've led and the choices I have made then I'd rather not be in his company.

Again, it's not the things that we've done. It's what we've done with the gift that Christ has freely given to us. There are plenty of "Christians" that will be surprised come eternity future when they see that their "worship" and simply being good wasn't enough.


I may have done some bad things in my life but none of those were bad enough to condemn someone to burn for eternity.

That's from a human standpoint. Remember that God doesn't see things from a human standpoint. God is completely holy and sinless and he can't allow even the smallest sin in his presence. This why Christ came and died. Through the sacrifice of Christ, our sins are completely atoned for [as opposed to just temporarily covered as in the Old Testament times] and God then sees us are perfect. As when one accepts Christ, they're put into his body and God sees us through the lens of Christ.


If god truly loves us he won't send us to burn for petty little mistakes.

But then God wouldn't be just as he has said that sin needs to be paid for in some way.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by chiron613
 



The same applies to Jews. You said that "Jews" said something, and quoted a verse from Acts to support your statement. However, it wasn't "Jews"; it was a single Jew, Gamaliel. Is this not also lumping people together?

I apologize for my folly. It may have been wrong to use "Jews". But there is a reason why I did, which I will explain below.


In fact, when Christians speak about the New Testament, they commonly refer to "the Jews" did this, and "the Jews" did that. In most cases, it wasn't "the Jews", it was the Pharisees and Sadducees. These groups are not "the Jews", any more than a group of Christian leaders is "the Christians".

This isn't exactly true. When Christians say the "Jews" we're referring to the Jewish leadership. So, when I say, "the Jews rejected Christ," I'm referring to the leadership of the Jews, which except for two, did reject Christ as Messiah.

Remember that in the Old Testament, the High Priest was the representative for all the people of the Jews [as also was the king later]. What they did often had consequences on the nation. So that being said, if I say, "The Jews rejected Christ," I'm correct also in a national sense because as did the High Priest, it would be applied to the nation.

So, to my above statement. My reasoning was that since the Jewish Leadership stopped, even though for a short time, pursuing Christians, they agreed with the statement that Gamaliel gave, thus, the Jews would've been in agreement that Christianity would die out.



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