The reason Jesus is the only way

reply to post by cancerian42

I just don't understand why christians are so sure in their belief when everything that Jesus taught is the same as what many non-christians already believe,

Not exactly true. Jesus taught, for example, that he would return. Many non-believers don't believe that. He taught that if you look at a woman with lust, it's adultery. Say that to some non-believers, and you'll get laughed at. Jesus taught that he was the promised Messiah from Genesis 3.15. Non-believers, by definition don't believe that.

There is a reason though why the moral code that Jesus taught lines up with "common decency" as some would call it today and why religions today, and from yesteryear, seem so similar. There is a common source. That is why, I contend, that many of the ancient religions have striking similarities to Christianity. The ancients knew God's plan. That is why there is often a "son of God" figure who comes and does something. There is a book that I read in college that gets into this somewhat. It's titled What on Earth is God Doing?. You should read it if you can find it.

and yet they are damned for eternity just because they don't take someone's word (with no reason other than because christians say it is true and if there is another reason please tell me so that I may be saved) that there was a guy who died and was resurrected-It seems like such a technicality.

All I can say is, God had a plan from the beginning. He's made it clear that that was his plan and by obeying his plan one could get eternal life. No one is trying to hide this. Also, there are prophecies that point to Christ being the fulfillment of the Jewish Messiah. Such as Daniel's 70 Weeks. That is the prophecy that, in my mind, seals the deal that Christ is the Messiah and that he is the one that should be followed.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by cancerian42

 

Jesus taught, for example, that he would return. Many non-believers don't believe that. He taught that if you look at a woman with lust, it's adultery. Say that to some non-believers, and you'll get laughed at. Jesus taught that he was the promised Messiah from Genesis 3.15. Non-believers, by definition don't believe that.

I didn't say there weren't some who didn't believe his teachings, I just said many do believe them without being Christians, some people believe that Jesus was not God and some believe he was not the son of God and some people believe that you aren't really a christian unless you have been baptized in a certain way (some may think they are a christian, but to different self proclaimed christians they are not really). Some people believe that if you use a different name for God than what they think is the true name that you are wrong in your beliefs. Some people believe that there will be a messiah to come that is all the religions' messiahs in one (or an anti-christ type figure). And at least one person thinks all of these beliefs and more are extremely closed minded and frankly stupid.

All I can say is, God had a plan from the beginning. He's made it clear that that was his plan and by obeying his plan one could get eternal life. No one is trying to hide this. Also, there are prophecies that point to Christ being the fulfillment of the Jewish Messiah. Such as Daniel's 70 Weeks. That is the prophecy that, in my mind, seals the deal that Christ is the Messiah and that he is the one that should be followed.

Supposing there is a god and "he" had a plan, he definitely did not make it clear, if he did then there would be no religious wars. No one is trying to hide their fundamentalist beliefs that is for sure. And why should I believe in the prophecies that you mention? The reason you have faith instead of knowledge is because you have no reason except for fear to believe what you believe. If you had a reason other than fear you could clearly show me why I too should believe what you believe, but since I do not have the same fears as you have, it will not be easy to convince me.

The rampant stereotyping going on here is most alarming...

Not all Christians have bought into (bad pun, sorry...) the commercialisation that many of you seem to think rules Christianity. Many, dare I say most, Christians (and I include all sects) live their faith quietly and for the most part unobtrusively. You've allowed the minority to color your opinions of the majority. IMHO.

If Christ is the God within, then Christianity will never die out. Who cares if the powers that be shut down the churches. You don't need to go to church to get in touch with God. Just look within and listen.

reply to post by cancerian42

Supposing there is a god and "he" had a plan, he definitely did not make it clear,

I didn't say that it was clear today, but rather, in the past. I didn't say it before, but, as time went on, Satan crept in and deceived people. His same trick from Eden.

And why should I believe in the prophecies that you mention?

Well, since they came true. Unless you want to just explain away the accuracy of the 70 weeks. That's up for you to decide what to do with it though, I can't force you to do anything.

The reason you have faith instead of knowledge is because you have no reason except for fear to believe what you believe.

Why is it that people always say that people with faith are "afraid"? I'm not afraid of anything. I wasn't scared into Christianity. I'm not scared as a Christian. I realized the love that God has for humanity. I also realized that I, on my own means, would never be good enough to work my way into heaven—which is the prevailing world view today.

If you had a reason other than fear you could clearly show me why I too should believe what you believe, but since I do not have the same fears as you have, it will not be easy to convince me.

Since my faith isn't based on fear, I can give you aspects that aren't fear based, but, you may or may not accept them. God is a gracious and loving God. He wants everyone to willingly come to him and trust in him for salvation. The means of this is through Jesus Christ. God doesn't, and I don't, want people forced. That's not worth anything. If God wanted people to be forced into worshiping him, he could've just created robots. Simply, God loves his creation. He wants to show us grace and mercy.

Until I became a Christian, I always thought that if I was good in this life, I would be able to enter paradise once I died. As I thought about it, I became concerned because how would I know when I was good enough. I also noticed that as soon as I did something that was good, I would do two things that were bad. I knew that by myself, I wouldn't be able to make it to heaven on my own. As most people, I knew that somehow the bad things I'd done would have to be paid for. As it turned out, Christ died and paid the penalty for my sin so that if I accept him, my sins would be eternally forgiven, and I would be able to spend eternity with God. Upon rising, Christ defeated death. [O Death! Where's your sting?!]

Once I saw the gift that is provided for mankind, through Christ, I accepted it. No fear involved. Naturally, as Christ said was needed, I had to have a childlike faith when I came to him. But, I [nor is any Christian] shouldn't stay there. A Christian needs to grow in his faith and examine the evidences for it. Yes, there are still aspects that I can't explain and I wrestle with to this day. Nothing Earth-shaddering though, only things that come into play once you're a Christian [i.e., Dispensationalism vs. Covenant Theology]. So, faith does still play a part [just like with any belief system or worldview--no belief system is 100% proven, if it was, everyone would follow it.]

Gday,

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Well in all fairness, you don't know that.
And claiming to know anything about a 2000 year old dead person is kind ridiculous don't you think?

So it's ridiculous to claim Jesus didn't exist?
And it's ridiculous to claim he DID exist?

That's what you said - it's ridiculous to claim to know anything about him, right?


K.


[edit on 19-7-2009 by Kapyong]

Gday,

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I will agree that "Christianity" has been around since Jesus took the helm,

That's funny -
you just said it was "ridiculous" to claim to know anything about Jesus!

Then you claim to know Jesus took the helm?


It's clear what you really mean :
* anyone who disagrees with your faith is "riduculous".
* anything YOU preach is "truth".


K.

Originally posted by octotom
I realized the love that God has for humanity. I also realized that I, on my own means, would never be good enough to work my way into heaven—which is the prevailing world view today.

Until I became a Christian, I always thought that if I was good in this life, I would be able to enter paradise once I died. As I thought about it, I became concerned because how would I know when I was good enough. I also noticed that as soon as I did something that was good, I would do two things that were bad. I knew that by myself, I wouldn't be able to make it to heaven on my own.

God's love for humanity? Have you not seen the state of the world? Would you let your children act the way we do?

Sounds to me like you was scared into it. You was afraid you wouldn't get into heaven(a place no one even knows exist) by your own actions, that you needed god( an entity no one even knows exist) or Jesus to make it there. Do you believe god or Jesus makes your decisions for you? That kind of throws the whole free will idea out the window doesn't it.

Do you believe god would want you wasting your life worrying about whether everything you do is going to piss him off or not? Or would he want you to enjoy life?

Do you really believe that all you have to do is repent all your sins(god's rules you broke) on your deathbed and all is forgiven and you're taken into god's embrace? Well then what the hell was the point in making the rules in the first place?

If I sound rude it wasn't my intention, these are questions that I have asked people before, I just want to see what your answers are if you wouldn't mind.

If by chance there is a god and I'm judged not worthy to be in his presence just because I didn't worship him or his son instead of by the life I've led and the choices I have made then I'd rather not be in his company. I may have done some bad things in my life but none of those were bad enough to condemn someone to burn for eternity. That's where they get you to fall into their little trap. The fear of hell. If god truly loves us he won't send us to burn for petty little mistakes.

reply to post by seagull


I personally was not talking so much about the money. I posted that trademark logo not because it had the dollar sing but because it had the trademark sign.

My problem is that it is such a closed religion. No room for growth anymore and when using the bible to argue about it is totally circular.

I have yet to meet a Christian that did not judge me to hell for my disbelief in repenting and Jesus being the way to heaven.

Example:

Lets say that Adolph Hitler at the end realized the error of his ways and suddenly was born again Christian and took Jesus as his lord and savior and repented, truly meaning it.

Would he go to heaven or hell?

Then you have a man that his entire life he never did anything wrong to anyone. For arguments sake, lets say he lived only for good and never committed a sin. Lets say this man raised a family to all be good people, yet he never accepted Jesus even thought he knew all about him.

He just never bought it. He then dies suddenly never believing in Christ.

Would he go to heaven or hell?

The above is the extreme, but its the problem all non Christian have with Christianity. Its like a child's fantasy land religion.

Great OP LoneGunMan! Star and Flag for sure!

The Christ within is what is taught. When a water baptism happens it is not the person dunking but the person being dunked that 'sometimes' the door is knocked on and opened!

Hey Kapyong! did not know that you were also here on these forums.
(you might have seen my posts on a Christian site)

Peace and Harmony through Unconditional LOVE!

Great post, dude! I agree with you completely.

Peace!

If anything, Jesus was a brilliant and clever cult leader.

Christianity---the biggest scam in the history of mankind.

reply to post by stevcolx


Agreed. =]

reply to post by Simon_Boudreaux


i sort of agree with you but i dont think god or satan is real.

reply to post by LoneGunMan


that was always my question and partly a reason i dont believe anymore. If you were a great person but didnt accept jesus would you go to heaven or hell everyone told me you would still go to hell. But im happier not believing

Regardless if Jesus was real or not some of the messages of Jesus are some of the best messages to come out of humanity.

Regardless if it was just a collection of different beliefs from previous religions and ideologies throughout history.

Regardless if Jesus was completely Fictional.

Some of the messages are the best messages on how to treat a fellow human being and THAT is the important part.

I am sure people can present evidence that Jesus had some flawed messages.

I know the messages of Jesus do not talk about Science or Medicine or Math.

But in regards to how to treat a fellow human some of the messages of Jesus truly are the only way.

Only through peace and understanding can we all get along on this spinning rock called Earth flung so far out into the Cosmos.

It is a steel cage match. There is no way off the Planet. We can choose to fight or we can choose to work together.

Unfortunately for the majority the Message of Jesus is not nearly as important as the belief that he was the Son of God
or that he was a Holy Trinity
or that he Appears in a Corn Flake
or that he was born from a Virgin
or that he was crucified or that he walked on water or that he had healing powers or that he arose from the dead.

The most important part are the words that Jesus teaches to "Love thy Neighbor" and "Turn the other cheek" and teaching Compassion and PEACE!

We can just as easily replace the word "Jesus" with Love. Love is the only way. Compassion is the only way. Asking the Hard questions is the only way. Cooperation is the only way. PEACE IS THE ONLY WAY!

Crucifixion is not the only way. Performing Miracles is not the only way. Having your mother be impregnated by God is not the only way. Coming back from the Dead is not the only way.

reply to post by lycanlance


Oh, I don't believe in either myself. The questions are more for those that do believe. To me it's like believing in Santa Claus. Eventually you find out he's not real. The thought of one day there was nothing then whammo there's an all powerful entity in the form of a man. People really believe that? Any person that has looked outside the bible for clues can figure out it's a fairy tale.

It's my opinion that the only way for the Human race to progress any farther we need to destroy religion and the concept of god. otherwise we are doomed.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Simon_Boudreaux]

Actualy Jesus isn't the first patent. He is just a combo of a bunch of old ones.

And really its not jesus that has been patented, but the method of control all religions use. Their way of breaking their own laws in the name of god. I think the most amazing thing about Christianity is how it so obviously plagerizes previous 'pagan' religions in its everyday workings.

Ever wonder what the deal with Easter is? All the rabbits and eggs?? That's because Easter is really the holiday of the pagan god ISHTAR. A fertility god. The term.. 'procreating' like rabbits comes to mind here. The rosary was practiced for centuries before jesus even walked the earth.

Baptism is another good ol' pagan ritual that was around long before jesus, as is the christmas tree.

And lets be frank, jesus says himself that MANY will come in is name, but on the day of reconing he will no them not. Now, who do you think he is talking about.... CHRISTIANS!! DUH.

I seriously doubt jesus really said he was the only way to god, common sense just screams manipulation at that point. when he says " I am the light and the way" I instantly think of the meaning of Lucifer AKA the DEVILS name: the shining one. something about that just doesn't jive with me.

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux
reply to post by lycanlance

 

Oh, I don't believe in either myself. The questions are more for those that do believe. To me it's like believing in Santa Claus. Eventually you find out he's not real. The thought of one day there was nothing then whammo there's an all powerful entity in the form of a man. People really believe that? Any person that has looked outside the bible for clues can figure out it's a fairy tale.

It's my opinion that the only way for the Human race to progress any father we need to destroy religion and the concept of god. otherwise we are doomed.

In my opinion every explenation comes down to the same thing: something happened that isn't supposed to be possible. I'm sorry but i just don't see the difference between believing in an invisible man in the sky and believing what science says... something came from nothing in a way thats not actualy possible to test... sounds like the same crap religious people catch heat for saying.

It's my opinion that the only way for the Human race to progress any farther is not to destroy religion and the idea of god, but to destroy the idea that we know something when we really have NO CLUE. Really. We could be the scum at the bottom of a five gallon bucket in somebodies garage and be none the wiser.

Constantine the Great, on his conversion to Christianity, simply merged the new religion into the old pagan faith in order to implement Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire.

The reason why Islam never become the influential religion in the world was because, during the renaissance of Europe, Christianity was marketed and commericalised - identical to the profitable religious tours during the Crusades.

Christians may believe their religion is inspiring to them, and all caring, but it was operated to become a controlling and profitable religion. The cult of personality surrounding Jesus was used to gain followers and wealth, from his death to the present day.

Catholic Church, Church of England, etc all have the same mentality and goal: Wealth.