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The end of "911 Conpiracy", and the beginning of "911 Common Knowledge"

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posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by Psynarchist
reply to post by jfj123
 


There was nothing obvious about it, at least not imho. There are still many people who go:

"Planes hit the building, and as a result they collapsed. I seen it with my own eyes!!!"

Planes did hit the buildings.


Also, if the building toppled sideways, it could leave the base and several floors standing, ready for a full fledged investigation.

Not if they were rigged as claimed by many "truthers".


Or, perhaps that was indeed their plan, but the kerozene was so hot, it melted the steel core of the building, resulting in a straight freefall collapse!

Aside from the fact that is wasn't an actual FREE FALL collapse, it wasn't from explosives either.


Besides, the 'evil government' didn't perpetrate 911 just to kill people,

Why did they do it? Please be specific.


they have plenty of time to do that in the subsequent wars.

Why would they go out of their way to kill people?


And they are not hyper competent;

Can't have it both ways. Either they were hyper competent enough to pull off the most intricate conspiracy EVER or they weren't involved.




posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by jfj123
 


Are you having a rough day or something jfj123?

He clearly typed purposely, not suposedly.

On purpose = deliberately

supposedly = accepted as being true on inconclusive grounds.


Umm there are lot's of posts here. Could you at least refer to the post you are speaking of?
Thanks.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by GrandKitaro777
 


You are kidding us right? Using this as "proof" of a conspiracy? Late afternoon/early evening that day, FDNY was clearing the area around WTC7 because they were pretty sure it was going to fall. And on more than one occasion on ATS, it has been pointed out during events like this, the media ALWAYS screws up....normally in their haste to scoop the competition. Not to mention, havent you ever played the "telephone" game? The more times a message is passed between people the more mistakes are made. Thats what happened here. No sinister agenda, no cover up. And WOW, they didnt realize the building was still standing in their camera shot......reporters have NEVER been the brightest. Especially TV reporters, where looks are more important than brains.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by woodles
reply to post by jfj123
 


Are you implying that because there is so much evidence of a cover up taking place instead of an event perpetrated by 19 extremists, that it must have in fact been the 19 extremists who committed the crime? Just because people have enough power to conspire to push an agenda doesn't mean that they have supreme power and technology to cover all their tracks.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by woodles]

You can't have it both ways. Either we have a hyper competent government able to completely control every aspect of the hypothetical conspiracy or we don't.
And surely explosives experts could have dropped the buildings so they fell in a manor that people wouldn't question. They considered every aspect but not that it looked too fake, and based on that, we might question them. Just doesn't make sense.



Haha, guys, come on it's obvious that the likes of jfj are here simply to muddy the waters. That or they are completely thick. No matter how much evidence is provided they are still going to change the subject and bounce around - cause that's all they can do.

Don't believe me? Read the posts, it's all here, page 1-13. Watch them repeatedly ignore all evidence, reason, and logic, to bring up one inane point that they know cannot be proven either way and harp on it till it's dead. All while ignoring absolutely every shred that they cannot debate.

Numerous first responders as well as many, many media outlets on September 11th, 2001 report secondary explosions.

Smoke is seen coming from the bottom of the tower.

Workers in the basement levels feel and hear explosions.

The granite in the lobbies is blasted off the walls long after the planes have struck the building.

Nano-thermite is found in all dust samples tested from ground zero.

Numerous videos show flashes as well as puffs of smokes being ejected below the cascade of debris.

All 3 buildings suffer instant, uniform failure of every floor at the exact moment - to allow for a near free fall descent.

One of those 3 buildings isn't even hit by a plane, so half their argument is out the window right there.


AND THEN... The response to all this? "Well if the government was so competent why didn't they make the building topple."

Yah, good luck trying to find any logic in anything they post. Whether it's their job, or whether they are just simply that absolutely obliviously ignorant I am not sure, but their actions and words reflect those qualities. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it could very well be a duck.

Do not feed these trolls. Especially when they apparently can't get a grip on reality, or come up with any logical rebuttals.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by woodles
reply to post by jfj123
 


Are you implying that because there is so much evidence of a cover up taking place instead of an event perpetrated by 19 extremists, that it must have in fact been the 19 extremists who committed the crime? Just because people have enough power to conspire to push an agenda doesn't mean that they have supreme power and technology to cover all their tracks.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by woodles]

You can't have it both ways. Either we have a hyper competent government able to completely control every aspect of the hypothetical conspiracy or we don't.
And surely explosives experts could have dropped the buildings so they fell in a manor that people wouldn't question. They considered every aspect but not that it looked too fake, and based on that, we might question them. Just doesn't make sense.


Actually, you are forgetting the third option...a semi-competent government able to control many aspects of the "hypothetical conspiracy", not all, else we wouldn't be discussing it right now.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by king9072

reply to post by jfj123
 


Are you implying that because there is so much evidence of a cover up taking place instead of an event perpetrated by 19 extremists, that it must have in fact been the 19 extremists who committed the crime? Just because people have enough power to conspire to push an agenda doesn't mean that they have supreme power and technology to cover all their tracks.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by woodles]

You can't have it both ways. Either we have a hyper competent government able to completely control every aspect of the hypothetical conspiracy or we don't.
And surely explosives experts could have dropped the buildings so they fell in a manor that people wouldn't question. They considered every aspect but not that it looked too fake, and based on that, we might question them. Just doesn't make sense.



Haha, guys, come on it's obvious that the likes of jfj are here simply to muddy the waters.

Yeah that's it.....Extreme sarcasm intended.


That or they are completely thick.

For asking a question and offering another perspective? Is your argument so weak that you can't even handle a reasonable question? Now who's muddying the waters?
And making me a FOE for simply offering an opinion? Really? Seriously? In all my time here, I've never made anyone a foe.


No matter how much evidence is provided they are still going to change the subject and bounce around - cause that's all they can do.

Again, just offering a different perspective. Sorry you can't handle any point of view that doesn't agree with you. Too bad your ego is so fragile



Don't believe me?

No I don't.


Read the posts, it's all here, page 1-13. Watch them repeatedly ignore all evidence, reason, and logic, to bring up one inane point that they know cannot be proven either way and harp on it till it's dead.

Funny, I was thinking the EXACT same thing of you
What a coincidence



All while ignoring absolutely every shred that they cannot debate.

Again, thinking the same of you



Numerous first responders as well as many, many media outlets on September 11th, 2001 report secondary explosions.

Because the media never gets anything wrong. Are you suggesting the media is always right? Yes or No?
Also let's say there were secondary explosions.....so what? Do you honestly think there were not any flamable chemicals in the buildings?


Smoke is seen coming from the bottom of the tower.

Not surprising.


Workers in the basement levels feel and hear explosions.

ummmm big planes hit buildings, things caught on fire and exploded????


Numerous videos show flashes as well as puffs of smokes being ejected below the cascade of debris.

Not going into details. Just going to say DEBUNKED !


All 3 buildings suffer instant, uniform failure of every floor at the exact moment - to allow for a near free fall descent.

It's called global structural failure. It does happen in buildings that have received damage to the point where the remaining structure can no longer support the live/dead loads.


One of those 3 buildings isn't even hit by a plane, so half their argument is out the window right there.

Just curious but wasn't the 3rd building hit by one of the 2 other buildings?


AND THEN... The response to all this? "Well if the government was so competent why didn't they make the building topple."

It's not THE argument, it's A perspective.


Yah, good luck trying to find any logic in anything they post.

Again, I was thinking the same of your posts



Whether it's their job,

Yes the government is Sooooo concerned about people like you that that actually hire people to keep you quiet. How self important are you



or whether they are just simply that absolutely obliviously ignorant I am not sure,

Again my thoughts about your posts



but their actions and words reflect those qualities. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it could very well be a duck.

Again, my same feeling. Walks like a nut, acts like a nut...........


Do not feed these trolls.

Well by responding I'm feeding you but thanks for the advice



Especially when they apparently can't get a grip on reality, or come up with any logical rebuttals.

Yes we wouldn't want to interfere with your RELIGION

Heaven forbid you have a basic understanding about structural dynamics


All I can say to you:
"Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth then lies."

[edit on 21-7-2009 by jfj123]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by RoughKut
 





Hundreds of Cameras


Nope, a few dozen...maybe...primary physical security is provided by the Pentagon Security force.




Reported missile defenses and supposedly the most secure and protected building in America


Again, a falsehood. On 9/11/01, the Pentagon did not have any missile defenses. Its location on the approach/departure to Reagan National, made missile systems a horribly bad idea....unless you LIKE seeing airliners mistakenly shot out of the air during a missed approach (which would take it right over the Pentagon grounds).




Michael Moore told us that there are even cameras in the trees


Michael Moore told us.......nuff said.




Why did the plane circle the building to hit that side?


Because approaching most of the rest of the building would have taken the plane into the aforementioned approach/departure corridors of Reagan National. A mid-air with another jet leaving/landing at Reagan would have screwed up their mission...dont you think?




What the hell was up with that group of people wearing ties and slacks combing the Pentagon lawn with their hands linked? This was a crime scene.


Its called an evidence/wreckage recovery sweep.




They could have been in danger themselves from the chemicals and fires and such.


And the people actually going into the building DID wear protective gear.




Finding documents from planes that were totally vaporized.


And if the planes had totally vaporized, you might have had a point here. But since all four of the airplanes left a bunch of wreckage behind them...your point doesn't hold water.




3. A total failure of Norad to protect us from 4 attacks.


It wasnt until the second tower had been hit that it became clear it was an attack.




Come on, there's not a single credible answer for that building falling evenly and flush into a nice pile. Not ONE credible answer. Debris? Please. Wooden houses don't even fall from large fires.


Evenly and flush into a nice pile??? I am going to guess that you do not know that the collapse of WTC 7 damaged a building BEHIND it so badly that it (30 West Broadway) that it had to be torn down. There was nothing "even" or "flush" about it.




Why buy a money-pit building that hasn't changed owners in something like 90 years? And weeks before it's totally destroyed? Why put an insane 7 billion dollar insurance policy on it citing terror attacks specifically?


A money pit that was 98 percent occupied and in which the retail areas had DOUBLED the money they were making in the five years prior to 2001. 90 years huh? So the WTC was built in 1911? Hmmmmm.....

And it wasnt a 7 billion dollar policy, it was a 3.5 billion dollar policy that his bankers forced him to get. He originally only wanted 1.5 billion, and even then, the policy had not been issued by the day the Towers were destroyed. What is he doing with the money? Well, he is making rent payments to the Port Authority and trying to get the buildings rebuilt. In other words, he is spending a lot of money on a property that is not earning him any money.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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I do not believe the official story

That said I think that those responsible for the removal of the WTC debris should be brought up on charges of destruction of evidence. The steel that would have shown proof one way or the other was melted down before any tests for thermite residue could be performed.

Isn't it nice that the people suspected of carrying out the crime were the same ones that rushed in and took control of the crime scene. Seems like they learned the value of that tactic during the JFK murder.

History is written by the winners, and for all effects and purposes "they" have won and have issued the "official" story that will be future history. It is the task of us true patriots to make certain that the other side of the story is kept alive and passed to future generations so that when they create another "Reichstag Fire" scenario in the future our children's children will know what to to look for and possibly can move and organize fast enough to gather the evidence needed to put the true blame where it truly belongs.

If we had the FAA records from 9/11 it would answer a lot of questions, too bad they were "accidentally" destroyed. IF we had the multiple camera views of the Pentagon attack it would answer a lot of questions, too bad they were taken into "safe keeping" and never will see the light of day (unless they are "sanitized or digitally altered).

We should implement a true "Citizens Investigation Agency" composed of randomly appointed citizens that have no ties to Congress, The Skull and Bones or any other of the "Illuminati" structure. They should be given the power to collect evidence at any crime scene where there might be a conflict of interest such as the Pentagon (give some of them security clearance if need be) or WTC. To allow the Fox's to control the investigation and cleanup of the Chicken Coop robbery is a crime in it self.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:24 PM
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Rough Cut, I agree and you bring up vaild arguements!

John Jasper, I realize why you think I missed the point. Thank you.
However, for this 'truth' to ever come out and be taken seriously,
three things have to happen here.(which I doubt ever will)

1. The MSM and thus the majority have to HEAR the truth.
2. The people have to actually use their brains, research it and BELIEVE it.
3. Then, they actually have to have the cahones to DO SOMETHING about it.
Oh and 4, They have to admit they voted for these peeps in the first place!

Thats asking for alot from the sheeple crowd, doncha think?
Notgunnahappen, nagada, as bush #1 used to say!


I really like your thoughts and I appreciate the mention!


The guilty will never be brought to justice because money buys everything.
including good lawyers. Or, a scooter libby scapegoat is real handy too!
Nope we are too content with our stuff to ever make waves.
Unless you consider a tea party making waves!


Like I said before, it is tough when the whole house of cards comes crashing down and we realize what really goes on!
Cases in point:


It was so easy for me to see through all the lies our government told us about that day. It has changed my life.



I was still deep under the illusion of the US govt being a benevolent one - I don't think I was so much afraid to face it as just fast asleep. Waking up has been hard - shock therapy. All that I thought I knew has collapsed - I now want to know the truth about all that these govt are up to - I don't kid myself that other systems are good and this one is bad - they work together against humanity's interests.



It wasn't until a couple years later that I was introduced to all the proof that the OS was a blatant lie and even more evidence (though not 100% proof yet) that it was a false flag attack, or at least was allowed to happen in full knowledge like Pearl Harbor.

Congratulations to you all. Nice to have you!
Welcome back from (the american) dreamland!



[edit on 21-7-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by Webmusher
 





That said I think that those responsible for the removal of the WTC debris should be brought up on charges of destruction of evidence. The steel that would have shown proof one way or the other was melted down before any tests for thermite residue could be performed.


The first several days, they were removing debris in the hopes of finding survivors....and you want to hold them for destruction of evidence? Or, do you not understand that all the debris went to several landfills where it was examined before any of it was allowed to be shipped away. Or, that quite a few tons of steel that was considered evidence of the structural failures are stored in a hanger at JFK airport?



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 





Planes did hit the buildings.


I never said they didn't.




Not if they were rigged as claimed by many "truthers".


Stick to your own scenario for a moment though: They were rigged to topple, meaning they weren't rigged all the way to the basement, they'd be rigged on one side in order to topple over.




Aside from the fact that is wasn't an actual FREE FALL collapse


It didn't exactly took 15 minutes either now did it?




it wasn't from explosives either...


Wow, you certainly are sure about that aren't you. Were you there to determine this or are you just repeating it till people believe it?
These guys were there, and they're all talking about sequences and explosions:





Why did they do it? Please be specific.


Ever heard of Capitalism? It's very profitable, especially when products break really quick. Or even better: products that are meant to break!!!! No wonder the Military Industrial Complex makes so much money huh?
And wherever Capitalism's money is flowing, the financial sector are there like vultures at death.
They're nice guys though... wouldn't harm a fly.


@ King:

I know these kinda silly back-and-forth debates may only serve to muddy the waters, but they're also a good archive on how that sorta thing transpires.

I'm done feeding for today though.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by Psynarchist]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 




Thanks for proving my point. Ignore all evidence that you can't debate and run on about nothing for an entire post. Good work, thanks for doing my job in proving you mindless.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by Psynarchist


Stick to your own scenario for a moment though: They were rigged to topple, meaning they weren't rigged all the way to the basement, they'd be rigged on one side in order to topple over.

Well to make sure the toppled completely and did the most amount of damage possible, they would need to be rigged top to bottom.



Aside from the fact that is wasn't an actual FREE FALL collapse



It didn't exactly took 15 minutes either now did it?

Never said it did. I only said it didn't fall at FREE FALL speed.


Why did they do it? Please be specific.



Ever heard of Capitalism?

OK not specific but please continue



It's very profitable, especially when products break really quick. Or even better: products that are meant to break!!!! No wonder the Military Industrial Complex makes so much money huh?

That's why I've suggested that the original builders used substandard material and quick fixes to build the buildings which allowed for the collapses.


I know these kinda silly back-and-forth debates may only serve to muddy the waters, but they're also a good archive on how that sorta thing transpires.

I'm done feeding for today though.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by Psynarchist]

As am I



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by king9072
reply to post by jfj123
 




Thanks for proving my point. Ignore all evidence that you can't debate and run on about nothing for an entire post. Good work, thanks for doing my job in proving you mindless.


And I was just thinking the same of you

I like when people try to change the subject to avoid the subject

Semi-good job. I give you a C+. A little more effort and we can bump it up to a B-



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 09:21 PM
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This bickering is why we fail as a UNITED states.
We dont know who to blame for the downfall honestly,
so we end up blaming each other. Perfect for 'them'.
One side blames obama, one bush. One side blames clinton, etc, etc.
When all the while the rape of your kids' future continues unabated.
The same ones who are okey dokey with it all are probably the
same ones who think greed is good or needed!

You want to blame someone? Start with yourself.

Well, this shifting the blame stops with me.
To start, I appologize for having some hope one last time.
I dont vote anymore(I withhold my consent) so I cant appologize for electing the creeps though.
I will, as a citizen be ever vigilant for justice. I promise you.
If I am part of the problem, I will strive to be part of the solution instead.
To get back to a nation of the free instead of the greed, is worth it to me.
The original idea behind this nation is worth it.
The country my father fought for is worth it.
The country thousands have died for is worth it.
It needs people to question things, for that is our way in a 'free' society.
To search out the truth and try to live honestly and free is worth it.
To accept always the OS, is not only dangerous but downright suicidal!
Not my thoughts, history proves this nicely.
Didn't think 'downwinders' would ring any bells....disinfo works great!


Atomic Energy Commission press releases promised that atomic tests would be conducted "with adequate assurances of safety." Residents of southern Nevada and southern Utah who lived downwind of the tests initially believed what they were told; as one historian wrote, "Their faith and trust in their government would not allow them to even consider the possibility that the government would ever endanger their health." However, their experiences during and since the 1950s have convinced them of just the opposite--
historytogo.utah.gov...
You think these perps even know what the right thing is?
If you beleive they do I got some bottled water I'll sell ya!



INL operations have contaminated the groundwater in the Eastern Snake River Plain Aquifer with everything from chemical solvents to radioactive isotopes. Moreover, these pollutants didn't end up in the aquifer accidentally—in most cases, the pollutants were injected into the aquifer intentionally and legally. Laws regulating the disposal of wastewater weren't passed until the mid-1980s—over 30 years later.

www.deq.state.id.us...
I think we get greed mixed up with progress, like we do when
we mix up spirituality with organized religion.
I'm just saying dont expect any miracles, we have to sleep
in the bed we peed in now.
Welcome to the great contraction!

Greed is why 9/11 happened and why the truth
will always be ignored and thus, the OS justified by most.


[edit on 21-7-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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At the end of all that, I am still not sure `WHY` this thread was started.

I read it as...all those who do not believe in the OS, say, "AYE"...a head count.

This is `very important`, because the tactics used by others are, to divide us and fuel internal disagreement.
Here are my views on what constitutes `good evidence`, if you fail to agree with these points, you are uninformed and basically ignorant...or worse, part of an organization...etc

As far as I can see, no one really agreed with the OS, but where keen to start the process of `Prioritising` the arguments based on `empirical` evidence.

Obviously this can only take place, if people are prepared to let their unfounded opinions sink to the bottom, and agree to concentrate on the `key` arguments...this process has to take place, because...

1. The `key` arguments are not a given, they have to be found through a weighing of the evidence.

2. To show the reasons for this `list` of arguments, through debate, so those whose opinions do not feature, have a better understanding of `WHY`and do not feel offended, thus continuing to give their support.

I thought that the author of this thread was suggesting the need for these debates...but instead, it seems as though an attempt to force their own list onto other people, and belittling those that deviated.

The result of all this, lead to some people trying to realize a list of priorities, through elimination. Some becoming frustrated when their opinions where shouted down, others frustrated with the lack of cohesion. Personal attacks, appeals to others for support, claiming majority rule...etc..etc.

I thought that the author should have stood aside, at this point and restated what the common`goals` where, instead of adopting the pretence of being above all this rabble, with statements like,`I knew this would happen` and accusing people of being just like, the prediction at the start of the thread.

The truth is, the author behaved no better than the `many`, and did not achieve what this thread was proclaiming to do.

The support for a clear, watertight case, is very high...but the many are still devoid of, `One clear voice`.

Just an opinion.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by dodadoom
 


Nice...I agree from the UK...I have never voted, because even though it will never be written, because I will not feature in the History Books...I know that I was never a contributor/responsible for the `mess` of my time.

I have never really been part of the solution either, because I see all attempts at beating this system, at the present time as futile. I think that this era in human history has to run its course, culminating in whatever the final solution will be.

I just hope that future generations will forgive/understand the infantile wishes for control. Living with more understanding/harmony, with what they are, where they are and where they wish to go.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by ironbutterflyrusted
 

Thank you for that!
As much as I hate to, I have to agree.
This system of rewarded corruption has to end.
Breaks my heart but needed just the same.
Was a good idea anyway.
A free market without regulation invites corruption by its very nature.
What we have now is no longer even a free market.
It is a complete rape and trampling of the last couple of hundred years
of progress in a grand freedom experiment.
Human nature can never be trusted to be free, apparently.

My thoughts go with the next generations that
have to deal with our mess of wanton greed and the
seemingly justified rape of our only habitat.
All in the name of "progress" or "growth".

Not sure if thats even commendable anymore either....
Maybe a few survivors hiding in a cave filled with shame
waiting for a self created doomsday is a more fitting demise anyway.
Again, thanks. I shed a tear for planet earth.
As for humanity? Good luck.
Without some serious help, we may be left to our own devices.
Now THATS a scary thought!


[edit on 21-7-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 01:32 AM
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Here is a video of a French comedian about 9/11. It's strange on many levels, including but not limited to the canned laughter:




posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 03:44 AM
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I certainly sympathize with those that feel this is going nowhere.. however I feel I must respond..
point by point answer to the OP..

The end of "911 Conpiracy", and the beginning of "911 Common Knowledge"

*Important* Please read and understand everything I write before writing a response, too many times in the past I end up repeating myself several times in my thread. If you need to, please read the thread several times before posting comments or questions. Thanks. *Important*

very condescending.. thanks..

An Important Distinction
Too often, as our society always does, we begin to divide ourselves against each other. Though we often share the same goals, we continually let ourselves be divided and conquered. And this is evident within the 911 movement. The truth movement is continually divided so that it can easily be conquered through ridicule and false science. Fellow members of the movement will argue endlessly about points that will likely never be proven either way, all while they let the goal of exposure slip away.

Always remember, there is only two sides here, you are one or the other.

there are not only two sides here..

You are either a person who does not believe the Official story, or you are a person that does believe the official story. That is the ONLY thing that matters. It doesn't matter if you believe there was no planes, or that I believe that there was planes, if we both agree that the official story is nonsensical. Through this division we are conquered, and we need to end that here, because we all have a common goal. When responding to this thread, I want you to begin by making this distinction prior to any comments. Either “I believe the official story (insert comment)” or, “I do not believe the official story (insert comment)”

there was always an inherent division in the truth movement.. lihop vs mihop.. the distinction is quite clear when you consider the implications.. other than that, there are a multitude of reasons for division.. namely, what you mentioned above, about what people BELIEVE..

Another... Important Distinction
Many people seem to think that it is on the truth movement, to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Government was involved. This is FALSE. It is NOT on us to prove that, and it is definitely not possible for us to prove that entirely. Through this false mind set, we limit ourselves from ever making any true headway. Our only goal is to prove that it did not happen the way they said it did, and through that fact we can understand that they must have done it, because only the guilty must lie in explanation.

the part about your only goal is ridiculous.. because it didnt happen the way they said it did means they did it? did I read that right? thats not proof..

Short Anecdote:(removed.. done to death..)


In essence, I can't prove 100% why the government conducted 911, though I have some ideas. Or exactly how, everything was accomplished, though I have some ideas. But what can be proven is that their story does not add up, and because of that I know they are guilty, because if they were innocent their story would add up and they would have done everything in their power to divulge every piece of information. It's the unknown, and currently – unprovable, variables that are derailing this movement.

It's why we still have people on this forum, who believe in a completely illogical and outright blasphemous version of events that day. And with that view, they base their life, making decisions, building their perception, and influencing the way they act and interpret new information. It is dangerous. Because it's through this ignorant perception, that people allow illogical and threatening laws to be passed, wars to be launched, people to be murdered, and countries destroyed.

could say the same for you and those who agree with your side..

We must use undisputed facts,

that is correct..

inconsistencies in the official version, and highlight the astronomical coincidences to make our point.

how about instead of make our point.. find the truth?

(quote content removed..)

It's time for people to understand that there are no coincidences in the grand scheme of this world. Failing to understand that fact seriously limits your ability to evaluate the current state of your reality. You are limiting your perception. Especially since, these coincidences are absolutely astronomical.

quite a leap of faith here.. no coincidences? none?

(off topic.. london bombing and swine flu references removed..)

Amazing Coincidences...
Is it a coincidence that the “Pentagon Attack” happened to hit the only section designed to take such a hit?

Is it a coincidence that the hijacker, was so nice to go out of his way to attack that portion, rather than any other portion? Going so far as to execute almost an entire downward circle, to avoid all pentagon brass stationed directly on the opposite side of the building. Just a coincidence?

the straight route was over the Reagan approach corridor.. probably would have avoided that side anyway.. also, he might have missed the first approach.. reasonable doubt here..

Is it a coincidence that 3 steel structured towers collapsed into themselves on 911, yet it has never happened before or since? How does a fire, a jet, a bomb, or anything which compromises less than 10% of a steel structure, some how cause a unilateral, complete systematic failure?

remember above? We must use undisputed facts,

Is it a coincidence that some how, for the first time in history that day, we had almost two entire planes vaporize? Such as in Shanksville or at the Pentagon. It must be merely a coincidence, that these two planes practically disappeared. And in the Pentagon attack, it is simply a coincidence that the wings did no damage to the exterior of the building, nor did the engines, before they were 'sucked' into the building and vaporized. Riiiight.

you have obviously not researched this aspect much.. remember..We must use undisputed facts,

Is it a coincidence or simply amazing luck, that Silverstein purchased the WTC complex 6 weeks prior to 911

It is especially convenient, since purchasing the WTC's were theoretically the worst business move in history. The towers were a black hole, that were only a burden. It was losing money hand over fist, and the cost of needed renovations were staggering. It would be cheaper to rebuild the towers, than to go through purchasing them.

It's just a coincidence, that he profited to the tune of 4.5 billion dollars on a six week investment which cost him 14 million out of pocket.

have you looked into the court judgements, and into how much lucky larry has spent after?
hint.. he did not do so well..


Thus, it must also be coincidence, that he happened to miss a very important meeting in the World Trade Center that day due to his wife “demanding” he see his dermatologist.

thats the story.. maybe he is lucky..

CONTINUED NEXT POST.

It's then, also a coincidence that Rumsfeld announced that the Pentagon could not account for $2.3 trillion in spending, on September 10th. Luckily for him, the next day a problem would occur, which would enable trillions more in wasted spending.

not a once in a life time occurance.. but yeah.. suspicious..

I suppose it must also be a coincidence, that WTC 7, which was never hit with a plane and had sustained only superficial damage to one part of its facade, with small isolated fires burning, collapsed at near freefall speed mirroring the exact look, and movement of any controlled demolition.

the damage was more than superficial.. fires were not small.. the FDNY knew it would fall way before it did.. remember..We must use undisputed facts,

=======video=======

Is it just a coincidence, that on the one time that America is actually attacked, that it is the one time Norad fails to scramble any jets towards the threat. Wait, make that, fails four times to scramble jets to neutralize a threat. All on one amazing day.

that is so intellectually dishonest that it hardly merits a response.. but here goes.. first off there was no knowledge that this was an attack until the second plane hit.. secondly, Norad is not responsible for anything other than external air threats.. thirdly, with the transponders turned off it was hard to identify them on radar due to the immense air traffic in the area.. plus it was only a short time that this all unfolded..

Is it just a coincidence, with so much debate about what happened at the Pentagon, that they have still never released anything more than 6 frames of footage? Especially when, not even those 6 frames even show anything conclusively. Perhaps an innocent Government, which had actually been attacked, would show every single tape, from every single angle of that plane hitting that building. So why do we only have 6 inconclusive frames?

this subject has been addressed before.. they were fisheye lenses.. and the other cameras were not focused on an outward perspective.. they would be poised to see vehicles or personnel approaching on the ground.. there was one directly above the impact zone (I believe) but was destroyed in the crash..

Is it just a coincidence that scientists have found Military Grade Thermitic Materials in all dust samples studied from the debris?

this is currently, highly in dispute.. there is no proof of this claim yet..

Is it just a coincidence, that Marvin Bush was a principal in a company called Securacom which handled security of the WTC? At the exact time, someone was able to smuggle in and plant an estimated 10-100 tons of thermite? Obviously just a coincidence.

must have planted it prior to 2001, as he left the company in 2000.. remember?We must use undisputed facts,

It's also just a coincidence, that for the first time in history, with the country under direct attack the preisdent sat still, in a location that had been publicly announced. He was never carried off by the secret service to somewhere “safe”. Perhaps he figured, he was safe.

he was safe and secure for the moment.. he was moved shortly after..

It's also just a coincidence that pools of molten metal were found under the WTC rubble upto 6 weeks after the attacks. This is obviously something fire alone cannot accomplish, and it's additionally coincidental since it's been scientifically proven that thermite was used that day.

talking about Jones and or Harrit? not proven.. many critics, no peer review, outlandish claim to say proven.. remember?We must use undisputed facts,

It's also interesting that they spent $65 million investigating Clintons Sex scandal, and only $3 million was designated to investigate the most devastating attack on American Soil ever.

goes to show how ridiculous the clinton witch hunt was..

Why did the government feel the need to lie about practically every aspect of that day, continually, when they should have wanted to know for themselves exactly what happened. Perhaps, it's all just a coincidence that they did not care.

another unproven assumption..
Thus....?

The government has lied. Their story does not add up. And thus they must be guilty. There are elements of that day which will likely never be uncovered, as well as theories that will never be proven. But what is clearly evident is that we have been sold a joke, and because of that joke our entire life and our destiny has changed.

still no evidence.. nothing but a rant..

Our perception as a planet shifted that day, and layers of ignorance were imposed. As I mentioned, it is this intentionally imposed ignorance that has allowed our world to decay to it's current state. Sweeping police state measures added, absolutely unconstitutional laws passed, trillions of wasted spending, millions of innocent people dead, thousands of soldiers dead, thousands of soldiers taking their own life, thousands of first responders to the attacks are DEAD or dying.

yes, very sad indeed.. lots of things changed that day.. but place the blame were there is proof of guilt.. not just where you think it is..

We had our perception and future altered that day, those people had their perception and future ENDED. All because of a monstrous myth, that logic and scientific reasoning has quickly debunked. If you believe any one of those “coincidences” may, NOT have been a coincidence, that means you do NOT believe the official story. If this were an unexpected tragedy that were a genuine attack on the country, do you honestly believe there would exist so many astronomical coincidences? It's like winning the lottery 100 times consecutively it just doesn't happen – by chance.

It's time to quit letting people everywhere perpetuate the official story MYTH. Because the fact that people believe it shows that they are intentionally ignorant to the situation, and their reaction to events and perception of reality is crippled at best, and damaging to themselves, their family and their country at worst.

leave your emotions at the door folks.. this is not something you can discern without facts..
let truth prevail and let the chips fall where they may.. that is the spirit of the scientific method..
not some emotional rant without substance.. remember everything in the OP is nothing but conjecture.. not one verifiable fact is presented..


So lets end this divide in the movement, and begin to vigorously out those who want to be intentionally ignorant of the facts of a day which has forever changed the lives of everyone on this planet, and has ended the lives of millions permanently.

with this I agree.. those that would intentionally remain ignorant, need to be outed..
but more importantly.. those that would lead one into ignorance, needs outing even more..





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