What do you tell your children?

Tonight i have sat here with two slightly confused daughters.

My kids are 10 and 11 years. They have always gone to a Church of England primary school. I wouldn't say it was because of the religion primarily, more a case of it was the village school. A lovely school, safe, caring, i even went to the same school as a kid.

So they have been brought up at school with the bible and all that goes with that. I wouldn't say they are totaly convinced, but i will happily discuss anything they want to regarding religion.

Tonight though, they have watched two documentaries on tv. One was about the big bang theory. They were glued as they love anything about space, but when it outlined the details of the BBT, they sat there kind of puzzled. I have spoken to them about the big bang theory before, but i think it went in one er and out the other.

Then we watched a documentary on Versailles, which led to questions about Kings and queens and eventualy Adam and Eve. When they asked how Eve was made, i explained the theory....and they just sat there with eyebrows raised as if i'd just told them i'd just jumped the grand canyon on my bicyle.

Firstly, even a ten year old can see this is just odd. Secondly, they are now torn as to what happened at the beginning of the universe.

After much discussion, they are aware that some people believe God made everything...as they were taught at school...and many believe in the BBT. I will tell them both sides and they can make their own mind up.

They say that their school has never taught them about the BBT, but my eldest starts highschool soon and she will be baffled if they start talking about it there.

You can't blame them for being confused. Other schools were not an option, and at the end of the day, it's a nice school. I feel partly to blame for their confusion now, but i know i can help them look into each one if they wish so they can decide. Not that they have to decide, but there were looking a bit confused tonight so i think they'd like some kind of answer.

So what do you tell your kids?

CX.

When my daughter returned from a Catholic Summer School that her mother sent her to, she had all sorts of questions as what they told her contradicted what she had been taught all of her life in Science. She was especially confused being that in Science, many things can be either duplicated or demonstrated by herself, lending credibility to even the theories in Science whereas the idea of Creationism falls entirely into the realm of Make-Believe for her because not a single shred of it is tangible (it cannot be experienced first-hand). It's like trying to believe a story someone tells you. Just because people claim the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Santa are real, doesn't make them real...so neither does Creationism when it's just some story someone is telling you in a book.

When my daughter learned of Flying Spaghetti Monster, she uses that as her example of why Creationism fails. Needless to say, the Catholic Summer School refuses to take my daughter back anymore.

Kids are smarter than we give them credit for. If you teach a child to have discernment, and how to use reason and logic in all things, then the Laws of Natural Science prevail. If you can observe or elucidate something by observation then it is believable to a child. If it cannot be observed or inferred by observation, then it is make-believe to a child. Almost every single child understands Natural Science as that is how they learn and grow. They observe behavior, they mimic that behavior, and eventually they learn that behavior. If a child tries to touch a hot stove you can tell them that it is hot, but they do not understand what you are telling them (or rather they are unable to believe it) until they can observe first-hand that it is hot (i.e., touching it themselves, or touching something combustible to it). Once they observe first-hand that the stove is hot, then they know, rather than being asked to believe in something they cannot know other than through first-hand observation.

As we grow older our need to believe that there is something more to life begins to take hold. As we experience death in something near and dear to us, we begin a desperate journey in the search for the eternal, leading us blindly into the realms of faith. To a child who ha never experienced the death of someone close to them, faith is a ridiculous abstract and incomprehensible notion (just as Mathematics is to them).

You should tell them adults like to talk about the stuff they don't really know and argue about it. That's why the big bang is just a theory like creationism is. Tell them life is about making your own choices and no wait for other to tell you what is but to seek the truth for yourself.
Finally tell them that other people won't be as smart as them and will be convinced one theory is true without any tangible proof. Just let them know other people will fight for their own beliefs, and that they have the right to think what they want to think.

that all is not as it seem

that people, groups and officials will try to push ideals and ideas and that you must always seek knowledge for yourself. Never accept the official or common line because more often than not they are only presenting one facet or outlook.

reply to post by CX


I think you need to present both theories have them choose, but remember their are so many more theories than the big bang. Their are so many ways to interpret the bible. So many theories for how the world started. But make sure they at least have the option to know that Religion and Science are one, not split.

[edit on Jul 18th 2009 by TheMythLives]

Science and Christianity can exist together, with me they do. And about the flying spaghetti monster, anyone using that is sickening, they use it to insult most religions, it makes me sick and angry too. I respect all major faiths, I don't insult people or their believes, even atheism; unlike the people who have anything to do with the flying spaghetti monster.

reply to post by walsbg22


The Flying Spaghetti monster can be replaced with anything. I think before the spaghetti monster it was a Flying Teapot in orbit around the Sun.

It is just meant as a means of showing how ludicrous it is to claim proof of existence of something by using the statement "You cannot DISPROVE it".


To The OP-

I am not a parent so I am not sure what to tell your kids. I DO know that my favorite book I have ever read was "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen Hawking. Maybe you could buy each of your kids a copy?

I told my kids that evolution was the science of investigating how god created life as we know it,
and creationists were people who believed they already knew how god did it.

It's not just giving them all sides of the story.
You have to get them to be prepared to defend themselves, their points of view.
Giving them two points of view to mull over is fine, but challenge them to learn about them as well, don't just provide it to them on a plate.

I've been trying to get my nieces interested for years. Unfortunately, I don't get with my oldest niece enough, she mainly enjoys reading comics.
And my youngest nieces still expects good books ot be about her, so she's still a work in progress.

Great definition Kailasa! I might just quote you on that!

Another thing I did with my daughter was played upon human curiosity. We covet that which is denied. We hold a secret that we personally discover closer to our hearts than we do with knowledge that is freely given.

Therefore I did the following:

1.) Take an old laptop and fill it with all sorts of Science software and manuals.
2.) Put it in a box with several books on Science, especially the ones children wouldn't read if you bribed them (like Trigonometry, Calculus and Physics Text Books).
3.) Write the words "PRIVATE. DO NOT OPEN!" in big bold letters on the outside of the box.
4.) Put the box in a hidden location, such as an attic or basement.
5.) Sit back and wait.

When I put that box in the top of the hall closet it went unmolested until my daughter turned 7. After that, it disappeared. She treasured the contents as her most sacred and holy of objects. She scrutinized them and treated them as canon. Next thing I knew my daughter had an insatiable desire for learning more about Newtonian Physics, High Powered Rocketry, Astronomy, and wanted to do one Science experiment after another in our backyard. It made me chuckle every time she asked if she could use a power tool to build something or if she could wreck a basketball in the name of Science.

I never once had to actively try to encourage her, because I did so passively by being super-sneaky and playing upon the human condition. (And no, I don't feel any guilt for it!)

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


No, anything like the flying spaghetti monster or anything like that, is just to insult people's beliefs, nothing more or nothing less.

I can't believe they teach the theory that God created everything in some of our schools. I hope this doesn't happen in science classes. Surely they need some evidence to teach it. If they don't want to teach the big bang theory, that's fine. I never learned about it in my school. God and the Bible should be mocked and ridiculed in schools. Nothing more.

All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

reply to post by walsbg22


I would like to disagree with you and I will provide evidence to support my claim. I am going to explain the Teapot Analogy and show you how it is VERY similar to the Spaghetti Monster.

Russell's teapot, sometimes called the Celestial Teapot, was an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970), intended to refute the idea that the burden of proof lies upon the skeptic to disprove unfalsifiable claims of religions. In an article entitled "Is There a God?"[1] commissioned (but never published) by Illustrated magazine in 1952, Russell wrote:[2]

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes.

But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

en.wikipedia.org...

As you can see the Teapot analogy is nearly identical to the Spaghetti Monster analogy.

It says that the Burden of Proof lies upon the one who is making the claims. If the claim has no evidence to back it up and exists solely in the realm of "Not being disproven" then it does not constitute evidence of proof.

If you find lack of belief due to lack of Evidence insulting then my friend we are at an impasse.

I will go on to argue that some elements of the Spaghetti Monster could be taken as insult. Such as the popular phrase "Bless it's noodley appendage" or referring to the religion of Spaghetti Monster belief as "Pastafarianism".

BUT since you were not just calling into question The Flying Spaghetti Monster you mentioned "Anything Like That" I would have to say you are indeed insulted by other peoples lack of belief due to lack of evidence.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


I'm insulted by disrespect for people's religious beliefs.

reply to post by walsbg22


Do you find it disrespectful to have someone question your beliefs? If you do find questioning disrespectful then I would state your quest for knowledge has ended.

The best way to tell your children in my opinion is what you think and what you know. But make sure that you distinguish between objectivity and subjectivity.
Remember your kids have a mind of their own. They dont see your projections of thoughts and images in the same way as you do. Your words and teachings will project differently to them in their mind.

Kids are not at the same stage as you are. So you have to chose your details carefully, when you explain so that they will understand correctly what you are trying to say or teach.

When it comes to believes. You have to remember that believes are personal to each and every one of us. If you dont believe in God your kids might despite what you think or believe. But are you going to tell them that their believes are wrong and that yours is right?
How do you plan on proving that to them?

If a believer in God cant prove to you that God exist. How do you tend to prove to the kids that God dosent exist?

That's what believing is all about. Its a feeling, and we dont all shear the same feelings when it comes to what we believe in. And its not a choice you make its a choice you choose to fallow based on what you feel.