The only thing Christians have going for them is FAITH, and they're taught to love it

That's what bothers me most about Christians, and feel free to correct me if you really think you have something conclusive (ie not faith).

The only thing you have going for your beliefs is that you have FAITH in them.

Which is like me saying I believe my neighbor was born from a virgin and is the savior of all mankind because I have FAITH in him. No one can reason with that FAITH because of what the word "faith" really means: acceptance without reasoning.

So on that note, why not be accepting of ANYTHING without a reason? Why not just go through all things in life with the same blindness, not caring for any reasons for doing anything or avoiding doing anything? Why not just make up our own reasons for doing whatever the hell we want and call that faith too?

Which is like me saying I believe my neighbor was born from a virgin and is the savior of all mankind because I have FAITH in him.


no no no, no. It's not like that at all. your neighbor wasn't predicted throughout the Ot, and prophecied that were fullfilled by the Nt and he didn't raise dead people, feed 5,000 and creat a church that would spread throughout the world which btw breeds saints like st gemma, a girl in my sig who amlost talked to Jesus daily and had the stigmata.

and thousands of saints all seen the same thing and worked countless miracles.

that's a little more then just acceptance without any proof at all.

and you know why saints becmae saints?

Because they had real faith which became evidence to them. A weary faith produces nothing, but a strong faith produces saints.


If we sit there and say.

" I kinda believe jesus was God I dunno "

we will never advance anywhere like that.

You either believe he is the one with all your heart or not, there is no middle ground.


and so look. I wouldn't ask these questions. the answer is simple. We believe Christ is the one predicted throughout the OT and God in the flesh.

Nothing will change that. Unless we fall away.

You need to let souls believe, and you stay to your unbelief, and at the end proof will be gioven to the faithless when we are face to face with him at the seat.


But I admire your sincerity, Not just attacks this time. Am I noticing a change in the forum?

peace.

[edit on 18-7-2009 by JesusisTruth]

And learn from the POD song/

a christian band

" I'll believe nomatter WHAT THEY SAY "

Mee too. So let that be a lesson to attackers on here, not the OP, but others.

www.youtube.com...


there's the song btw, didn't even realize they were christian back in the early 2000s.

Originally posted by bsbray11
That's what bothers me most about Christians, and feel free to correct me if you really think you have something conclusive (ie not faith).

The only thing you have going for your beliefs is that you have FAITH in them.

Which is like me saying I believe my neighbor was born from a virgin and is the savior of all mankind because I have FAITH in him. No one can reason with that FAITH because of what the word "faith" really means: acceptance without reasoning.

So on that note, why not be accepting of ANYTHING without a reason? Why not just go through all things in life with the same blindness, not caring for any reasons for doing anything or avoiding doing anything? Why not just make up our own reasons for doing whatever the hell we want and call that faith too?

I'm not a christian, and I am not at all "faith" based in the way you mean. "faith" in the way the church preaches(acceptance) is not faith, it is blind faith. It is contradictory to the bible.

The bible says such things are foolish, and to forsake such things and go in the way of understanding. Knowledge of the holy is not something you accept, it's something you understand.

Check out Proverbs 8 , Proverbs 9, Psalm 82, and Psalm 111.

Small note, "Fear of the Lord" doesn't mean like scared of the big bad wolf. It's a bit of a mistranslation. It actually means more like respect, revere, to be in awe, to realize and so forth.

This is what I try to show people all the time. The bible and things is not what you think it is. You are letting men define it for you when you go to churches and such. Jesus says not to make yourself into an authority figure of any type. Because authority teaches it should be accepted, and that is not the way of understanding and reason.

reply to post by bsbray11


Faith could be anything actually or simply a belief in something that doesn't exist or is yet to exist or happen.

Faith is a lifesaver. If not for faith, I would've committed suicide already. I got no friends anymore, got no girl, my career has reached its end. The only thing going for me is the belief that if I work my life hard enough and keeping an upbeat attitude, I could still reach my dreams in life and probably change my life for the better

I will keep that attitude all the way till the end of my long life

So many confuse faith with blind faith, which I think is the problem here. Faith is believing in something. I believe that, when I throw a ball, it's going to go where I throw it. I have faith in its destination. Most times when I throw a ball, it ends up where I want it to. Sometimes, when I throw it, my grip isn't right and it goes astray, my muscle memory screws up and it goes too far or to short, yet I still expect it to go in the direction and to the position I intend for it to go. This is faith based on evidence and experience.

Blind faith, on the other hand, is like Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade, where an archeologist steps off a cliff in the hope that he's not going to plummet to his death. Blind faith could also be believing in a conspiracy because the MSM said it wasn't true. There's little to no evidence supporting it and no experience to back it up, yet you still believe.

Christianity is to be the first kind of faith. Nowhere in the Bible is blind faith ever advocated. In 2 Chronicles God says to test Him (in that case it was a very specific thing). 1 Thessalonians 5:21 says, "test everything, keep that which is good." There is also this section from John 20:

24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."

26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Now, on the surface it could appear that Christ is advocating blind faith. However, Thomas had spent years with these 10 other guys and had learned to trust them. Yet he refused to believe. God's response was not, "Well, since you didn't believe when they told you about me, you have no place with me." Instead, He proved Himself to Thomas. Yes, it would have been better had he believed those whom he'd trusted up to that point, but that wasn't the end for him. God met him where he was at.

Now, do some people believe in a blind faith? Perhaps. I've not met any that have had no reason or story for their faith, for their Christianity, and why they believe, but they may be out there. However, this is not the kind of faith the Bible advocates.

Instead, it is faith like quantum physics requires faith. We cannot see what we're testing, but experiments and tests really seem to indicate that this quantum thing is real, so most scientists have faith in the equations as they develop technology based off of the theories. Christians don't, or shouldn't, have blind faith, but rather faith in a God who has demonstrated Himself to be true to them.

Wow JJ very good point!

I completely forgot about the story of Thomas who seen his wounds.

and then said blessed are those who haven't seen and believe.


very good, thanks for reminding me.

reply to post by junglejake


I think the blind faith thing and people dismissing "faith" in general is due to the fact that when questioned about many things, "faith" becomes the catch all response. At which point it becomes blind faith, not just faith. They obviously don't call it "blind faith", they will just call it "faith", and then that builds up the perception that faith means blind faith and acceptance without question.

Because many people do have blind faith. I run across it all the time.

Originally posted by junglejake
Christians don't, or shouldn't, have blind faith, but rather faith in a God who has demonstrated Himself to be true to them.

Ahh, I agree very much with that! But then here's my question: what if God demonstrates Himself in ways that not only fit the OT and the NT, but also the books that were taken out of the Bible, and even the philosophies of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism? Would you consider that fair enough?